Another Bad Will Moon Post

[craytab]

Bye Willy. Until you get desperate and come back again.

And just in case anyone is wondering, here is the thread from the hall of shame section. You'll notice a patern to is scamming lies. Same thing he tried to do here.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...-or-sane-m-c-k-georgespatton-burner1.1251273/

 

[REK Knives]

Further proof, like in my own thread about someone else, that we should never pay upfront. Any amount.

I of course thought it would not happen to me, but so so so many guys on here have said "No motivation to finish the knife you were already paid for." (in relation to the guys who take deposits or full payment up front and then don't deliver - of course I am sure there are guys who get paid up front and do deliver.)

It's funny that the customs I have that I had to wait on and actually received, I paid only after it was done. No upfront money, and I actually got the knife.

Glad you got your refund.

** Updated: sorry I know this isn't specific to the OP but I was just responding to this post about taking advanced payments.

Great thoughts here and I can certainly see exactly what you are saying. Try to understand the below, from a seller's perspective... This can happen if you personally are the seller of a knife so keep that in mind.

Unfortunately, as a service provider I have had to move away from 100% payment upon completion for every order. There is something called 'friendly fraud' out there and it's a big problem for merchants. What this means is that the owner of the knife could have me do work, pay with a card, then once they get the knife back call their card company and initiate a chargeback, stating that the knife wasn't as described (even without contacting me to allow me to fix it or make it right - remember this isn't the goal with friendly fraud, it's to get the cake and eat it too). Their card company immediately seizes the money from the merchant's account and won't give it back until the 'case' has been resolved - guess who decides who's right? The customer's card company. This doesn't leave the merchant with much hope - and no the card company doesn't require that the customer return the item, that's why it's fraud.

So I have had to change my payment policy recently to require 50% down on orders over $400 in value, including making knives - and I require it be in a USPS money order, cash, or a walmart money gram transfer. I try to treat everyone as I would like to be treated, even losing money (as I've done time and time again) to make a customer happy. But these steps prevent (somewhat) friendly fraud from occurring to me in the future as there is nothing they can do after I have the $$ other than contact me. To some extent, it puts me in charge of the $$ where I can call the shots and decide whether or not to refund the $$ (of course I will if I get the knife back). An important point to make though, is that this pre-paid $$ goes in a savings account to stay until the work is completed, at which point I move it over to my regular checking account.

 

[ncrockclimb]

** Updated: sorry I know this isn't specific to the OP but I was just responding to this post about taking advanced payments.

Great thoughts here and I can certainly see exactly what you are saying. Try to understand the below, from a seller's perspective... This can happen if you personally are the seller of a knife so keep that in mind.

Unfortunately, as a service provider I have had to move away from 100% payment upon completion for every order. There is something called 'friendly fraud' out there and it's a big problem for merchants. What this means is that the owner of the knife could have me do work, pay with a card, then once they get the knife back call their card company and initiate a chargeback, stating that the knife wasn't as described (even without contacting me to allow me to fix it or make it right - remember this isn't the goal with friendly fraud, it's to get the cake and eat it too). Their card company immediately seizes the money from the merchant's account and won't give it back until the 'case' has been resolved - guess who decides who's right? The customer's card company. This doesn't leave the merchant with much hope - and no the card company doesn't require that the customer return the item, that's why it's fraud.

So I have had to change my payment policy recently to require 50% down on orders over $400 in value, including making knives - and I require it be in a USPS money order, cash, or a walmart money gram transfer. I try to treat everyone as I would like to be treated, even losing money (as I've done time and time again) to make a customer happy. But these steps prevent (somewhat) friendly fraud from occurring to me in the future as there is nothing they can do after I have the $$ other than contact me. To some extent, it puts me in charge of the $$ where I can call the shots and decide whether or not to refund the $$ (of course I will if I get the knife back). An important point to make though, is that this pre-paid $$ goes in a savings account to stay until the work is completed, at which point I move it over to my regular checking account.

I would pay you upfront because I know you (online) and have had MANY great interactions with you. I have found you to be honest and very talented. However, without our current "relationship," I would think twice about paying you (or anyone) upfront.

I get where you are coming from 100%. I have been defrauded by customers in my business. However... I am not sure what the answer is. Maybe this should be made into a separate thread.

BTW, Will is a liar that NO ONE SHOULD TRUST.

edited for clarity and cause I be bad at grammar.

 

[brancron]

Will Moon being Will Moon. He will never change. But neither this nor the dozens of other horror stories will stop the denizens of reddit.com/r/knifeclub from oohing and aahing over Moon's crappy knives. It makes me shake my head to see how he's built himself a little nest over there.

 

[Rookie82]

Giving a guy his money back after having it for 8 months doesn't "make the customer whole". He should give him his money back, + 5-10% interest for the headache, and for having the customer go 8 months with no knife and no money.

 

[craytab]

Will Moon being Will Moon. He will never change. But neither this nor the dozens of other horror stories will stop the denizens of reddit.com/r/knifeclub from oohing and aahing over Moon's crappy knives. It makes me shake my head to see how he's built himself a little nest over there.

Don't forget ig. The kids love him over there.

 

[ncrockclimb]

I will NEVER understand the knife community on IG! Time and time again I have seen makers act in a repressible manner (think Survive!, Nocturnal, Trouble Blades, Derespina, DWAINE CARRILLO / AIRKAT KNIVES, etc), and yet their Instagram fanbase stays relatively intact. Who are the people that continue to support, and often shill for, these companies? I just don't get it.

 

[Mark Boyles]

IG is where I grew up in the knife community and is still my go to. Please don't think we are all mindless goons. I hadn't even heard of any of those makers until I joined BF and read the horror stories.

 

[JohnWE]

I will NEVER understand the knife community on IG! Time and time again I have seen makers act in a repressible manner (think Survive!, Nocturnal, Trouble Blades, Derespina, DWAINE CARRILLO / AIRKAT KNIVES, etc), and yet their Instagram fanbase stays relatively intact. Who are the people that continue to support, and often shill for, these companies? I just don't get it.

Sock puppets...

 

[JJHollowman]

If you read that IG post, funny how the guy that lived within easy driving distance got his knives toot-sweet with no problems or waiting whatsoever, while folks not so close got the shaft.

 

[tyyreaun]

I will NEVER understand the knife community on IG! Time and time again I have seen makers act in a repressible manner (think Survive!, Nocturnal, Trouble Blades, Derespina, DWAINE CARRILLO / AIRKAT KNIVES, etc), and yet their Instagram fanbase stays relatively intact. Who are the people that continue to support, and often shill for, these companies? I just don't get it.

I mentioned this in another thread, but you're talking about two very different skillsets: marketing and customer service. A decent knifemaker already has to have good design and mechanical skills, to make knives worth buying. For someone to have that, PLUS good marketing AND customer service, is a lot to ask - that's why a lot of knifemakers end up recruiting their spouses or other family/friends to handle that part of running a business.

A knifemaker who has good customer service skills, but no marketing, will hopefully end up successful via word of mouth. A knifemaker with good marketing skills, but no customer service, will end up on Instagram with a loyal following of 1) customers who lucked out, or 2) flunkies who aren't buying the knives anyway, and a long line of displeased customers.

A knifemaker who can do everything is going to be rare, and that's the type of person that'd probably succeed in pretty much any business or profession they chose to go into.

 

[JohnWE]

I mentioned this in another thread, but you're talking about two very different skillsets: marketing and customer service. A decent knifemaker already has to have good design and mechanical skills, to make knives worth buying. For someone to have that, PLUS good marketing AND customer service, is a lot to ask - that's why a lot of knifemakers end up recruiting their spouses or other family/friends to handle that part of running a business.

A knifemaker who has good customer service skills, but no marketing, will hopefully end up successful via word of mouth. A knifemaker with good marketing skills, but no customer service, will end up on Instagram with a loyal following of 1) customers who lucked out, or 2) flunkies who aren't buying the knives anyway, and a long line of displeased customers.

A knifemaker who can do everything is going to be rare, and that's the type of person that'd probably succeed in pretty much any business or profession they chose to go into.

I agree with everything you wrote but the issue I see is people who call themselves knifemakers using their inability to run a business to rob people. They also use their inability as an excuse to rob people.

 

[braillediver]

There's oops I made a mistake, Sorry I got behind and Life got in the way. Then there's the habitual repeat offenders who actively work the system.

The makers in the first group move on. The makers in the second group get anther thread in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

 

[BP_]

He’ll be at Blade. Table 38B, and in his post he says he looks forward to meeting everyone in person

This is from IG. I do not know him, and would not buy from him. Came across it and found it interesting that he has this illusion that people support frauds and scammers just because they (he) don’t/doesn’t “flip out” when accused. Nice words and apologies mean nothing without action. Especially when that’s all you get, repeatedly.

Just thought some might think it was interesting information. I’m sure some of you “happy” customers wouldn’t mind stopping by his table.

 

[Lapedog]

This. I've ordered custom knives both with deposits (including 100%), and without deposits. Of course, the ones without deposits were the ones delivered with the least hijinx and stress.

I always feel like if they are running their business in such a way where they need a large deposit beforehand that something is not right. I can’t help but feel they are using that deposit to finish the knife of the guy before me. Then my knife won’t get started until a third person comes and pays a deposit.

I could be wrong about that in many cases but either way a properly run business should be able to afford the materials without me paying for them. If they can’t have the business ability to keep enough funds on hand to buy those supplies then that seems abit fishy.

 

[jeremy1517]

I recently purchased two Stormcrows and received prompt Shipping and communication from Will.

For lack of sounding like I fan boy I am impressed with the craftsmanship of the Stormcrow. I like the knife.

I wasn’t aware of all the other issues surrounding Will and it disappoints me to read the history. From my experience I have found He makes a good knife.

 

[craytab]

I recently purchased two Stormcrows and received prompt Shipping and communication from Will.

For lack of sounding like I fan boy I am impressed with the craftsmanship of the Stormcrow. I like the knife.

I wasn’t aware of all the other issues surrounding Will and it disappoints me to read the history. From my experience I have found He makes a good knife.

And that is how it should be. His history shows the bullsnot he pulls. No credit for doing good when the chances for doing so are far gone.

 

[lieferung]

Will Moon being Will Moon. He will never change. But neither this nor the dozens of other horror stories will stop the denizens of reddit.com/r/knifeclub from oohing and aahing over Moon's crappy knives. It makes me shake my head to see how he's built himself a little nest over there.

I saw this thread earlier this week, and the very same day I saw him post on reddit and get tons of praise.

Reddit (or maybe just r/knifeclub and related) really is something else. It truly seems like they never focus on the bad side of anything or anyone. Sort of breaks and inhibits the idea of a community (not that BF is faultless, but much more honest I'd say) .

 

[benchwarmer380]

I saw this thread earlier this week, and the very same day I saw him post on reddit and get tons of praise.

Reddit (or maybe just r/knifeclub and related) really is something else. It truly seems like they never focus on the bad side of anything or anyone. Sort of breaks and inhibits the idea of a community (not that BF is faultless, but much more honest I'd say) .

The following opinion is completely from the outside looking in as i don't do reddit so take it as you will.

As with the balls2thewall ordeal, it feels like they will hardly cast a stone at someone until they are shackled and charged, regardless of the piles of evidence pointing to the destruction they have sewn.

Obviously, that's painting a broad brush and I'm sure not every feels that way but if the powers that be put up with it then the individuals opinion on the matter is effectively moot.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Because of the way reddit handles multiple accounts, and what some areas have turned into, as well as some of that 4chan vibe that is still resident, the live and let live attitude may come from a desire to not become one of the toxic subs. The fact is that it gets taken too far, and as we've seen many guys hide under those wings of protection. Also, if you are were the mod of some little sub that gives you a bit of a feeling of power, and you know that the alternative is having to deal with witch hunts and possibly getting shut down when it becomes toxic, maybe you let the guys slide a little more just to keep the peace. And maybe there is a benefit to doing so? I don't know, save that if any of these guys wanted to clear their names, they would be doing it directly to Spark, and not trying to bandaid a situation with an account that they know will get burned.