Another one of my BM's edge is toast.

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Jarvis, so your not the only one that's snapped a Busse tip? I'll be honest, I had a Chris Reeve Jereboam that was stabbed into a tree stump. The tip did bend a little, but it did not break off. It did leave a slight "bend" in the blade that you'd only notice if someone told you to look for it. I pryed so hard, that I took out a chunk of the stump.
 
Elen, Those are only 2 rolls. The whole edge is F'd up. I'm talking 6+ rolls and a few small chips :>( I was not chopping sand with it, but it did hit the dirt as a by product.
 
Elen said:
I do remember how INFI was advertised when it came out. I don't recall anyone saying you could chop through rocks with it and expect the edge to be undamaged...
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I have easily chopped through bricks with FSHs and FBMs.. There was next to no damage on every ocassion. Just minor blunting. I can steel it out in a few min..

Chopping through nails and screws is a different story..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYLKj5AyZuE
 
privateisland said:
Elen, Those are only 2 rolls. The whole edge is F'd up. I'm talking 6+ rolls and a few small chips :>( I was not chopping sand with it, but it did hit the dirt as a by product.
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Well, I didn't see the whole edge in that pic, so, I couldn't have known. 2 rolls is lots of work to correct, 6 rolls is more work. Not fun, but it happens when you hit abrasive materials.

Did you check if there were any larger rocks in the dirt? That would help cause a good amount of dings on the edge. Fine sand isn't nearly as bad, fortunately.

I have to say I do wonder where you're trying to go with this, though. If you're concerned that your BM is defective, send it to Busse. If you think you've broken it, send it to Busse. If you're expecting everyone else to come up and state "You know what, it's true, Busses aren't really that tough, and certainly no more tough than any other quality knife" then I expect you're going to have to do a lot of waiting... :D If you want to get rid of the BM, I'll bet it would sell quickly on the exchange right here. So, what are we looking at here?
 
Just wonderering, have you talked to Jerry about it? One thing is for sure: dirt, soil and rocks do take a toll on every knife!
 
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Elen said:
:D If you want to get rid of the BM, I'll bet it would sell quickly on the exchange right here. So, what are we looking at here?
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I'm not so sure about that... The E handles get no love...The market sux right now for even trying to break even.

I bought fancy Busses in the past and now find myself loosing a lot trying to re sell them. .
 
Elen, I like the knife. I guess I'm just disappointed in the edge. I don't think it's defective as my FBM had the same thing happen to it.

I think I'm going to retire not just the BM's, but all of my choppers. For the same price I can get a really nice GB hatchet and a nice hunting knife. Together I'll be able to do the same thing and not have to worry about screwing up the axe head.

I guess I'm just disillusioned by the "one knife" for all purpose use (regarding bushcraft skills). When the Original SHBM came out (late 90's), that's what I thought it was for.
 
privateisland said:
... the edge still has to come down to "normal knife specs" to cut.
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This may be where the "problem" lies. There really is no such thing as "normal knife specs" when it comes to thickness at the edge bevel. Jerry has experimented with many different edge thicknesses, even from one generation to the next within the same model. The possibilitiy of a little thinner edge grind on your particular model combined with striking unsupported small rocks could easily result in the kind of damage you're talking about--in fact, Jerry has posted photos of what happens with things like nails when they are chopped with nothing to support the edge on either side of the nail. Typically you get small ragged indents to the edge, something like what you are describing.

My bet is that if you restore the edge with a little more obtuse angle and shorter taper from the top of the bevel to the edge, you'll get fewer and shallower nicks. Of course, you'll also lose a little penetration with the same speed of stroke on wood--INFI is steel, after all, not some magical material that defies physics. It just does better across the board in all areas of performance than other knife steels--toughness, strength, edge holding, corrosion resistance, etc. You may find levels of performance higher than INFI from blades made of other steels in one or two of these categories, but not all of them.

If you look at Noss's test of an FFBM on KnifeTests.com, you'll see an edge that stands up to an incredible amount of punishment on things like concrete and mild steel with no significant decay. I'd be willing to bet the edge on that knife is significantly thicker than on your BM-E. But I've also heard many BM-E owners brag on how easily their blades chop wood--possibly a testament to that thinner edge. Just an illustration that all blades represent some level compromise between conflicting properties, and the best blades balance that compromise most efficiently.

Finally, don't forget the Busse warranty. You don't need a grinder or special skills to restore your INFI edges when damage occurs -- just send the blade in and tell the Busse folks what happened. They'll make sure you're satisfied.
 
privateisland said:
Elen, I like the knife. I guess I'm just disappointed in the edge. I don't think it's defective as my FBM had the same thing happen to it.

I think I'm going to retire not just the BM's, but all of my choppers. For the same price I can get a really nice GB hatchet and a nice hunting knife. Together I'll be able to do the same thing and not have to worry about screwing up the axe head.

I guess I'm just disillusioned by the "one knife" for all purpose use (regarding bushcraft skills). When the Original SHBM came out (late 90's), that's what I thought it was for.
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Well, the edge is a rather essential part of the knife. If you don't like the edge, then you're not going to like how the knife is in use, and to me that would be a huge problem. But with respect to this case here, I don't see reason to be disappointed in the edge. You could try the same thing with a number of other good knives and not see fantastically improved results.

The "one knife" concept I myself have always found somewhat silly. By limiting yourself to just one blade you're essentially throwing away precision in small work and raw power in large work. A large axe and a small knife will do most things much better than one large chopper knife would.

When I buy a large knife like the BMs, it's to replace a hatchet and such - it won't do small knife tasks. Such big knives are fun to use, to me at least, but they're not something I would choose as my only edged tool to bring. Those kind of compromises just don't make sense to me.

The GBs are good. I like them, but do consider them overpriced for what they are. For the same money, I can buy 10 Fiskars hatchets, spend 30 min on the grinder and have hatchets that cut as well as the GBs but will outlast them about 6 to 7 times due to strength in numbers. ;) In other news, I chipped both my oldest user Fiskars and my newest GB earlier this morning - both glanced the same rock as I was carelessly cleaning up the leftovers of a storm. It's all steel, and steel will get damaged by contact with abrasives.
 
Asymmetric edge has less steel behind it which makes it easier to roll. Most edge rolls should steel right out.

+1 on what Will York has said
 
My experience over the years has been that INFI represents the best balance of a number of performance criteria, of which toughness is one.

INFI is also relatively easy to restore when damaged.

As I've said before, there is no one thing that INFI does better than any other steel - including toughness. As soon as your list gets up to three or four things though, INFI pulls into the lead.

So no, INFI is not invincible. It is not magic. It's just the best all-around utility knife steel available... or at least the best that I have used.

BCK has also shown itself to be a very reputable company, and most of its products are well thought out.
 
Here is a link (one of the many) that shows the level of performance one can get from a BATAC: http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c240/ulfhead/?action=view&current=BATAC-vs-TREESTUMP_0001.flv. Tyrkon Lawson has shown times and again that Busse's are very tough knives. In addition to that, noss4 has proven how tough these knives are. A visit to his homepage (www.knifetest.com) will confirm what I am saying.
I am not trying to dispute your experience, not at all. I just provide evidence that indicates the reliability and the potential of a Busse knife. I don't think that the word "indestructible" is a suitable word for anything under this sun! There is nothing that cannot be destroyed one way or another. The key in our quest for getting the best knife we can afford is getting the most dependable and suitable knife for the purpose we want it. It is not getting a knife that not even a BOSCH angle grinder (http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=1894-6) can't beat!
 
i've had similar experiences as others - ever so slight rolls from chopping. i've never had more than one small roll at a time though. it was also never visible, but i could feel it. (these were all with sharpened and convex edges)
 
No offense, but those pics are so blurry and indistinct, you can't tell anything at all. If it is a scan, it should be crystal clear. Or maybe you smeared butter on your scanner first? I like butter too, but not on my scanner.

Anyways, contact the shop if you have not already. The damage you say is there is not normal, from my experience.
 
privateisland said:
I think I'm going to retire not just the BM's, but all of my choppers. For the same price I can get a really nice GB hatchet and a nice hunting knife. Together I'll be able to do the same thing and not have to worry about screwing up the axe head.
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I'm not sure I understand the logic here. GB hatchets/axes have edges that taper out to a fine edge as much or more than your BM-E. If you treat the hatchet the same (chopping into dirt/sand/rocks), why would you "not have to worry about screwing up the axe head"? GB has a good warranty on their products, but it is not better than the Busse warranty.

Edit: Take any sharpened piece of steel, chop it into the ground, and you're going to get dings. Ground = dirt, sand, and small rocks (sometimes big rocks), all of which are hard on an edge. There's a reason people use a chopping block (stump) when splitting wood. Do it on the ground, and you're going to see some edge damage to your axe or big knife.

When I am cross chopping with a big knife, I always put something under the limb being chopped, most frequently part of the limb I've already chopped off. When I am splitting wood, I use a stump/chopping block. When I have a branch go down in my yard, I have one saw horse I use as backing when chopping the limb up into pieces. That saw horse is looking rough, but it has definitely saved the edges on my big choppers. I don't chop into the ground. Learned that lesson with a Becker Combat Bowie. If you have to chop into earth, I'd advise using a cheap machete you can easily file back into shape.
 
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Rat, The knife is HUGE. It will barely fit in my MFC scanner. The edge will not lay flat against the scanner/ close the lid. Sorry.

Guyon, It's not that the GB will not get the edge ruined. It's just that I'd keep the GB strictly for chopping and the Hunter for the actual fine edge (and no chopping). The problem with the big BM for a 1purpose knife is, it chops great. But if the edge is THRASHED then you cannot do the precision work.
 
Guyon said:
... GB hatchets/axes have edges that taper out to a fine edge as much or more than your BM-E. If you treat the hatchet the same (chopping into dirt/sand/rocks), why would you not have to worry about "screwing up the axe head"? GB has a good warranty on their products, but it is not better than the Busse warranty.
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IIRC, GB hatchets/axes even come with a warning tag always to wear safety glasses when chopping, and never to hammer hard objects with the back of the head, due to the risk of chipping. It's hard to find a compromise that works well at everything. If you only have room to carry one tool, such as when camping or trekking through back country on foot, then a knife big enough to chop with can perform a variety of tasks and may be the best answer. Short of that, a utility size knife with 5" or shorter blade and a dedicated large chopper--whether knife or hatchet--is a much better way to go.

BM-class chopper + 3-4" blade folder = another good option.
 
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privateisland said:
Rat, The knife is HUGE. It will barely fit in my MFC scanner. The edge will not lay flat against the scanner/ close the lid. Sorry.

Guyon, It's not that the GB will not get the edge ruined. It's just that I'd keep the GB strictly for chopping and the Hunter for the actual fine edge (and no chopping). The problem with the big BM for a 1purpose knife is, it chops great. But if the edge is THRASHED then you cannot do the precision work.
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This is of course just my humble opinion, but... even when the edge of a big knife like the BM is not thrashed, you still cannot use it for precision work. Or rather, you can use it, it's just that it will quite frankly suck like a vacuum cleaner in such use. A BM is way too large, heavy, long and cumbersome for any precision work. You can try to use it for such things, and if you have the patience of a monk and the wrist strength of an African bull elephant, sure, you can get a decent result even. But you could do the same thing a lot faster, easier, and plain better with a 3.5" blade. :)
 
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