I Will never deal with anyone asking for payment via gift or asking for me to pay Their fees . Wont buy , sell or trade with them just keep adding them to my ignore list. If everyone did the same things would be a lot better in the exchange and this forum as a whole. It's obviously not ever going to be in the rules here so it up to you.
-
The rules for The Exchange can be found here. Please read and follow them. Stop using Paypal Friends & Family and follow our best practices to prevent getting ripped off or having a bad deal.
Another Paypal Discussion
- Thread starter LEGION 12
- Start date
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
If you are going to ignore ads asking for gift or fees, you will have a much greater impact if you tell them why you passed over their sale. The more who do so, the more impact. Just not buying could mean you didn't like the knife.
If you do like the knife and the price, but won't support a scam payment request, tell them. Don't tell them in the ad, that's interfering. Send them a Visitor Message, so everyone else can see you sent it too. That's feedback!
If you do like the knife and the price, but won't support a scam payment request, tell them. Don't tell them in the ad, that's interfering. Send them a Visitor Message, so everyone else can see you sent it too. That's feedback!
I completely agree with this. I've done this....not in visitor but in PM.....and I've gotten no end of crap from each seller I've contacted!! I've always been respectful but clear in my reason for not dealing with them and they've....to a man....told me to do anatomically impolite acts!!
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2012
- Messages
- 941
4 weeks of trying to get any kind of assistance when i was scammed out of $800 in knives.
I did get a letter in the mail some 3 months later but have yet to hear anything else taken place even with the multitude of proof i provided. (Happened about a year ago)
Leo was just plain rude and arrogant, one lady in Phoenix even said she doesn't have time for a laughing matter, (oh really $800 is a laughing matter?)
Most help i got was after my 5 or 6 time being transferred, a man (someone working out in Glendale I believe) pointed me in ic3.com direction.
I would love to think that is true, however in all but one case someone else came along very shortly there-after and purchased the knife! People are like Slinkys.....they keep on the path of least resistance until they meet the immovable object.....
You have to look out for yourself sure you can try and convince the seller using gift is wrong.But unfortunately there is another guy who will jump right in and go for it so why should they listen to me. I'm aware that not asking for gift payments and being responsible for your own fees will never be in the rules here.Many have tried and failed to have the Mods implement these simple rules Many other sites demand them for you to do business there. But I also understand the Mods here have a lot on their plates just trying to keep this place under control as they can.
Forgive my overbearance. I do not know the details of your transaction. I just take issue with blanket statements. Hundreds a child predators and pediaphiles have been taken into custody and incarcerated due to internet monitoring and baiting..
In a commercial transaction issue, a good place to start is the Chamber of Commerce. Many people do not know where to turn or what to do and overworked bureu investigators are loath to chase their or anybody else's tail if all there is to substantiate a fraudulent sale is a single web address. My first thought is $800 is a lot to risk without assurance. Sending Bank Money Orders made out to individual names that said names are printed on to MO by the bank is one safegaurd proving payment. Veryfying established transaction history is another.
One of the most interesting ploys I've come across is the newsprint ad 'Last Chance to Send $2 to name address which ran in over 780 newspapers across the US. Perp received almost $250 an ad. Never promising anything in return for the $2 sent relying on the gullability of the human heart. House Burglars who never carried a lockpick in their life because they always managed to find a home with unlocked doors is another example. Send funds through secured channels with recourse protection. And never send what you cant afford to live without.
Last edited:
Because asking for a gift may appear unethical but it is not illegal. I have a Boker AF 5 1/2" knife but I only want Hershey with Almonds Bars as payment. What infraction have I commited. If you dont like the terms then You the buyer can just refuse to buy and thats that. This is a free enterprise system and it is implied Buyer Beware and Shop at Risk. Does BF garauntee satisfaction for transactions performed on the knife exchange? No? Why do you think that is?
So I'll take a flyer here and say I believe you are wrong....I believe using Paypal gift for anyone who isn't a close friend or relative is, in fact, illegal; Paypal will lock your account and call you persona non-grata if they catch this type of behavior. If you choose to accept chocolate bars as payment.......while unconventional......there is nothing unethical in your request!! I like the idea, but I my rapidly expanding waist might not......nice idea my friend!!!
Hey Hammer Man,
True Pay Pal governs itself. But its rules are not 'Law" anymore than 'Please Wash Your Hands Before Returning To Work' signs are Law. They are transaction rules which upon their infringement bring discovered a paypal member may be expelled. My question is why use PayPal if the user has issue with fees?.
To bring it closer to home if you go to WalMart and use your debit card the card reader asks you Debit Or Credit. Familiar? Translation: Do you want to pay the transaction fees or do you want us to pay the transaction fees?
We in the western world are a consumer based society and we are spoiled by the laws and regulations that apply to commercial transactions. Said WalMart has a Tax ID, a Merchant ID, a commercial business license, of which consumer advocacy can threaten removal. Those sanctions do not apply to private sale. Yet we fully expect they do. If you send money to an individual for a product you have not seen or touched in person, that is a leap of faith. Again don't send what you cant live without. For a twist ask any member here who is selling a knife to send you the knife C.O.D. and if you like it you'll pay him PayPal gift and if you don't you'll send the knife back. Hmmm? A goose/gander moment typically refused when the faith is required by another. Just jump, I'll catch you. Sure you will. Trust is not sold, its earned.
True Pay Pal governs itself. But its rules are not 'Law" anymore than 'Please Wash Your Hands Before Returning To Work' signs are Law. They are transaction rules which upon their infringement bring discovered a paypal member may be expelled. My question is why use PayPal if the user has issue with fees?.
To bring it closer to home if you go to WalMart and use your debit card the card reader asks you Debit Or Credit. Familiar? Translation: Do you want to pay the transaction fees or do you want us to pay the transaction fees?
We in the western world are a consumer based society and we are spoiled by the laws and regulations that apply to commercial transactions. Said WalMart has a Tax ID, a Merchant ID, a commercial business license, of which consumer advocacy can threaten removal. Those sanctions do not apply to private sale. Yet we fully expect they do. If you send money to an individual for a product you have not seen or touched in person, that is a leap of faith. Again don't send what you cant live without. For a twist ask any member here who is selling a knife to send you the knife C.O.D. and if you like it you'll pay him PayPal gift and if you don't you'll send the knife back. Hmmm? A goose/gander moment typically refused when the faith is required by another. Just jump, I'll catch you. Sure you will. Trust is not sold, its earned.
True enough....guess it is the difference between illegal and against the rules! However, I agree with your recent post.....specifically the part regarding sending the knife first!! Wish that was an option for most of my previous purchases as I'd have saved a boat-load of money!!
I have bought and sold items using both the gift or goods option. I usually leave it to whatever the buyer or seller requests and is most comfortable with. I will work with whatever is agreeable to the person that I am doing business with although my personal preference is the "goods" option for payment. I have no problem covering someone's fees if I am purchasing something from them. Oftentimes, I am getting something I truly want at a great discount so I don't have a problem with covering fees for the seller.
And when it comes to buying something, if you don't like the way the seller is requesting payment of fee coverage or payment in general, how about PM'ing them and discussing your concerns with them first? I have sold items before and had members PM me to ask for adjustment of the sale terms and I have worked with them on a case by case basis until both of us were satisfied with the terms of the sale.
Maybe I am in the minority here, but if you don't like or trust the way an item is listed, maybe you should PM the seller first and see if they will adjust the terms of their sale rather than just not talking to them about it directly and then crying about it in a thread like this. You may find that people are very open to working with you.
Personally I do everything in my power to make sure people I sell to are 110% satisfied. I always cover 2 day priority shipping and insurance. I send the buyer their tracking number immediately upon printing their shipping label and I ship the next business day after payment posts if at all possible. And if I am discounting something like a 500 dollar knife by 150 bucks, covering shipping and insurance, and shipping fast, then I don't really feel bad about passing on a small transaction fee to the buyer. If they bought the item from an online retailer, paid full MSRP and shipping they would often pay CONSIDERABLY more. That being said, if you don't like the seller's terms, CONTACT THEM ABOUT IT AND SEE IF THEY WILL WORK OUT A SOLUTION TO YOUR LIKING. Many will do just that. I have and will if a buyer has concerns. Ultimately the total satisfaction of my buyers is of utmost importance to me.
At the end of the day, if you still don't like the sellers terms and just want to complain about it without talking to them about it, then it's certainly within your power to move on and ignore the seller and the item they have listed.
I apologize in advance for the rant, but having been on both sides of the fence, good buyer/seller communication and compromise usually will clear up any concerns that either party has.
Just my 2 cents.
-Griz
And when it comes to buying something, if you don't like the way the seller is requesting payment of fee coverage or payment in general, how about PM'ing them and discussing your concerns with them first? I have sold items before and had members PM me to ask for adjustment of the sale terms and I have worked with them on a case by case basis until both of us were satisfied with the terms of the sale.
Maybe I am in the minority here, but if you don't like or trust the way an item is listed, maybe you should PM the seller first and see if they will adjust the terms of their sale rather than just not talking to them about it directly and then crying about it in a thread like this. You may find that people are very open to working with you.
Personally I do everything in my power to make sure people I sell to are 110% satisfied. I always cover 2 day priority shipping and insurance. I send the buyer their tracking number immediately upon printing their shipping label and I ship the next business day after payment posts if at all possible. And if I am discounting something like a 500 dollar knife by 150 bucks, covering shipping and insurance, and shipping fast, then I don't really feel bad about passing on a small transaction fee to the buyer. If they bought the item from an online retailer, paid full MSRP and shipping they would often pay CONSIDERABLY more. That being said, if you don't like the seller's terms, CONTACT THEM ABOUT IT AND SEE IF THEY WILL WORK OUT A SOLUTION TO YOUR LIKING. Many will do just that. I have and will if a buyer has concerns. Ultimately the total satisfaction of my buyers is of utmost importance to me.
At the end of the day, if you still don't like the sellers terms and just want to complain about it without talking to them about it, then it's certainly within your power to move on and ignore the seller and the item they have listed.
I apologize in advance for the rant, but having been on both sides of the fence, good buyer/seller communication and compromise usually will clear up any concerns that either party has.
Just my 2 cents.
-Griz
True... I never thought about the Visitor Message being seen by everyone. Good idea
That is just one more reason not to do business with people that respond like that... It shows their true colors, and is even more reason for flags to go up.
From time to time discussions arise about sellers asking buyers to pay via PayPal, but either use the "gift" option or to add 3-4% to cover the fees. I do not recommend going along with that. Adding extra fees is a cheep way for a seller to get his customers to pay extra for his convenience, and using the "gift" option strips a buyer of any recourse if for some reason the deal goes wrong.
Part of my job is to make it as painless as possible for people to buy my knives. Therefore...
I sell knives at a flat price that includes shipping and handling to anywhere in the US (international orders obviously require more $ from the buyer, and that has never been a problem).
I strongly do not recommend mailing cash for obvious reasons, and I am not currently able to accept credit cards directly, so nearly all my knives are sold through PayPal, and occasionally someone will prefer to mail me a check or money order.
When folks pay me via PayPal, I do not charge them extra, because I agreed to PayPal's fees for processing the transaction for me when I set up my account there, and I think the convenience is worth it. When people pay via check or money order, I do not give them a discount, because I have to deal with all that myself (and in the case of a check, wait for it to clear). Same knife, same price either way.
Thank you for your support!
Words from my good friend, Professional Knifemaker James Terrio and one of many reasons why I purcahase knives from him.