Antique Pocketknives 101

Shouldn't the long pull nail nick be milled instead of stamped into the blade? Larry
 
I have a Schrade Walden 236 with delrin scales, and it looks almost exactly like this knife. However, mine is a knife I suspect has been cleaned, and buffed. On mine, the width of the master blade matches up better with the spring, but still has a crocus polished mark side, which I thought has been polished shiny after the fact and likely came out of the factory glazed. I always figured this was one of the last ones Schrade produced, around 1965.

I did not did not take these shots for comparative purposes, just happened to have them.

Looking at the profiles of the blades, they are almost the same in most aspects, although some of the observers here have a keener eye than me. My pen blades rides down into the liners a little deeper, maybe because of the kick on the tang. I would like to match up lengths on the pen blade. Mine is right at 2" from the base of the tang, measuring along the spine.

236_f-2.jpg


s236_b-1.jpg


One thing that jumps out to me on Charlies knife is the shield. I thought with peachseed scales, it should have had a Federal shield, not like the one on my version. Schrade and consistency though do not always go together.

http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/Open_stock/pages/236.htm

I don't have an opinion. If it it has some fakery Charlie, it would have slipped past me.
 
Thanks for the pics and the link, Hal. They do shed some light on the situation.
There are no further markings on the knife; no pattern number, and no markings on the pen blade.
I will add a larger picture of the tang stamp soon.
 
Here are pics of the tang, and some of the jig;
TroubleJack10.jpg

TroubleJack11.jpg

TroubleJack12.jpg
 
I am way out of my league here with all the construction information, but, is it possible this knife was rebuilt by Schrade? I have a boy scout knife that I dropped off at the factory back in the 90's to have a broken blade replaced: it was, but with one that is "sort of like the original." Perhaps that is what happened with this knife? Rebuilt with what was at hand at the time?
 
Wrong master blade....doesn't have the proper swedge; doesn't fit the backspring; too short for frame.

The tang mark is bad. Looks like a pantograph engraving, not a stamp.

I can't tell too well from the photos, but it looks as if the tang on the pen blade may have been ground thinner on the inner side to fit it's backspring. It does not have a swedge, as Charlie stated, but should.

Not Schrade jigging, and although I think the shield is the correct one, it looks like it was inletted with a hatchet. The fit looked suspect from the first photos, but is glaringly obvious from the last pics.

Who did you get this gem from ?

Fran
 
Quote Eric: "the bone does NOT look like most of the peachseed I've seen from those older Schrades. It's too sloppy, and lacks the defined jigging and pattern you find on the original examples, plus the shield is wrong as well."
now that is something i cannot see even after Eric has brought attention to it, and i have been looking at Schrade knives daily for over 2 years.
do others find assessment of jigging patterns a challenge ?
and, why is a Crest(or Federal) shield out of place ?
roland
 
I agree with the answers above mostly, although IIRC reading and researching some while back that Schrade made knives for a certain Company/Hardware chain where the knives where Standard Schrade patterns, except the Jigging was slightly different from the standard Schrade Bone that we are more familiar with. Just throwing something in there!!

Russell
 
the mismatched blade/spring and odd looking swedge are probably from being reground/"cleaned" (looks like the bone got hit with the buffer as well). JMO
 
You can see how much "cleaning" it's had by how much the tang line on the pen blade was changed,it also hides the fact that the master blade has been sharpened some,it's probably only about 10% smaller or so but it is noticeable along with the reground choil.As others have mentioned,that master blade didn't come from the factory in that handle anyway,it's an ok user but not worth anything as a collector.
 
Here's the knife in it's Cut. Co form, with the original shield. I've seen this shield in the early Walden catalogs as well, but judging by Hal's pic it was apparently changed at some point. The knife was originally available in three different styles on this 3 9/16 frame: a two blade jack like Charlie's, a two blade serpentine like this one (same blades, but on opposing ends), and a three blade whittler with a saber clip and crescent nail nick. Note the cut swedge.

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Here are some peachseed picks, After seeing Charlie's closeups, it does seem to match better, but there just seems to be something a bit different about his jigging, maybe the cutter had a bad day?

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Charlie, what do you think of the bone? You've certainly got a lot more there to compare it to:thumbup::D I'm kind of on the fence about it, but there isn't much out there that was very similar to it.

If the blades were buffed, they certainly took a lot of steel off there to grind off the swedge.

Eric
 
Thanks for throwing this one up to discuss Charlie. Great discussion, and I'd like to throw out there for the non-Schrade folks, that Schrade was never known for consistency. And they made knives for a long long time. Thought George65 made some good points. I'm with Roland on this one, so it is good to see some different slants on what to look at.
 
Rusty1 said:
I agree with the answers above mostly, although IIRC reading and researching some while back that Schrade made knives for a certain Company/Hardware chain where the knives where Standard Schrade patterns, except the Jigging was slightly different from the standard Schrade Bone that we are more familiar with. Just throwing something in there!!

Russell
Click to expand...

Do you remember the company, or can you relocate that info, Rusty??
 
I've taken two more closeups of the bone. You should be able to see evidence of overbuffing with a soft wheel. This may account for the odd appearance of the jigging, and the mottled appearance of the color.
TroubleJack14.jpg

TroubleJack13.jpg

Thanks for all the comments, BTW. You all are helping me understand what this is. I knew some of it, but the majority has come from this give-and-take!!
Ain't we havin' fun!!:D
 
This is a great thread Charlie. For someone like myself with little old Schrade knowledge, it has really opened my eyes and made me look at things a little differently. Because to be quite honest, if I would have gotten the knife, I wouldn't have known anything was wrong with it :D
 
The stamp looks fake to me. You can see at the end of some of the letters where it seems like the engaver stopped and made little round marks. Theres been a ton of knives sold on fleabay made by that Brett guy that look just like this one.

TroubleJack102-1.jpg
 
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The bone is harder than the nickel-silver and brass, so the soft buffing wheel, when used too vigorously, gouges these soft metals. Notice all the erosion on the bolsters and the brass rivets! The soft wheel also reaches into the jigs, polishing the insides, so you lose the contrast between the "matte" inside of the cuts, and the shiny top surface. Not nearly as pleasing to the eye.
The swedge on the master is softened from buffing as well, losing the crispness we all long for
The poor fit of the tang-to-spring of the master blade, the grind of the pen; more indicators that the knife has been apart, and re-assembled from disparate parts.
I will post some more tang stamps, because I agree with you doubters of the stamp!
 
I've taken two more closeups of the bone. You should be able to see evidence of overbuffing with a soft wheel. This may account for the odd appearance of the jigging, and the mottled appearance of the color.
The soft wheel also reaches into the jigs, polishing the insides, so you lose the contrast between the "matte" inside of the cuts, and the shiny top surface. Not nearly as pleasing to the eye.

I don't have a problem with the color of the bone, but it still doesn't look 'Schrade' to me. Look at the last pic of the pile side. the jigging cut runs from the rear pin, all the way to the edge of the cover below the center pin. It's dark, and didn't get like that from over-buffing.

Long jigging like that just doesn't look like I'd expect from Schrade, unless like Russell said, it was for a special order.

Fran
 
You are right Fran, the cuts are too long!
 
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