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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Antique Pocketknives 101
- Thread starter waynorth
- Start date
I'm with you No One, the bone is amazing and for 80 bucks it makes a real pretty carry.
Regards
Robin
Regards
Robin
ea42
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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- Jan 1, 2006
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- 4,018
[poncing, ponced]
(often foll. by around, about)Brit & Austral to act stupidly or waste time
- Can't say as I've ever heard that one before, hmf.
The thing about a true vintage Schrade (or XX Case, or Remington, etc.) knife afficionado is that they want the knives they purchase to be as near unaultered as possible, especially when they're being sold as such. When a vintage knife is ground and buffed to get rid of that "unsightly" staining, it's being altered to the point of not even resembling what the cutlers of that period would ever have produced. It's like, to re-use an oft quoted analogy, taking the finish off a fine antique and sanding the hell out of it. The sharp original swedges are gone, the blade is much thinner and likely shorter, it's likely been polished on a buffer, hence those lines running parallel to the edge. Factory produced blades were polished on a hard wheel, and at right angles to the edge, resulting in a completely different finish. Now this kind of stuff might sound like poncing, but we're not talking about a "nice" knife here, which it is, what we're most concerned with is how much it's been altered from it's original state. For someone who is not interested in a worked, or "cleaned" old knife, no matter how nice it is, that eighty dollars was wasted, and could have been better spent on another knife.
Back a few decades ago Cattaraugus knives were an extemely hot collectible due to the excellent craftsmanship that went into them. Of course the lowlife counterfeiters and part time "repairmen" had to get a piece of the action as well, and flooded the market with poorly, and not so poorly constructed fakes, hybrids, and halfbreads. This resulted in the near collapse of the Catt. market as far as collectibility, because no one trusted ANY of the knives being sold and traded anymore.
This still goes on to a certain extent with all big cutlery names, and is a major reason why knives like this are put under so much scrutiny. Lots of dirtbags will go so far as to weld a blade onto an old tang, refurbish the knife, and sell it as a mint original. "Good knife" has nothing to do with it.
Eric
(often foll. by around, about)Brit & Austral to act stupidly or waste time
- Can't say as I've ever heard that one before, hmf.
The thing about a true vintage Schrade (or XX Case, or Remington, etc.) knife afficionado is that they want the knives they purchase to be as near unaultered as possible, especially when they're being sold as such. When a vintage knife is ground and buffed to get rid of that "unsightly" staining, it's being altered to the point of not even resembling what the cutlers of that period would ever have produced. It's like, to re-use an oft quoted analogy, taking the finish off a fine antique and sanding the hell out of it. The sharp original swedges are gone, the blade is much thinner and likely shorter, it's likely been polished on a buffer, hence those lines running parallel to the edge. Factory produced blades were polished on a hard wheel, and at right angles to the edge, resulting in a completely different finish. Now this kind of stuff might sound like poncing, but we're not talking about a "nice" knife here, which it is, what we're most concerned with is how much it's been altered from it's original state. For someone who is not interested in a worked, or "cleaned" old knife, no matter how nice it is, that eighty dollars was wasted, and could have been better spent on another knife.
Back a few decades ago Cattaraugus knives were an extemely hot collectible due to the excellent craftsmanship that went into them. Of course the lowlife counterfeiters and part time "repairmen" had to get a piece of the action as well, and flooded the market with poorly, and not so poorly constructed fakes, hybrids, and halfbreads. This resulted in the near collapse of the Catt. market as far as collectibility, because no one trusted ANY of the knives being sold and traded anymore.
This still goes on to a certain extent with all big cutlery names, and is a major reason why knives like this are put under so much scrutiny. Lots of dirtbags will go so far as to weld a blade onto an old tang, refurbish the knife, and sell it as a mint original. "Good knife" has nothing to do with it.
Eric
waynorth
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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- Nov 19, 2005
- Messages
- 32,748
Poncing;
Moving about effeminately or ineffectually.
The activities we do here are to educate ourselves, and enjoy; to learn the history, and celebrate the dedication to craftsmanship that came before us.
Eric has explained very well in his simultaneous post, the goals that are sought.
This forum is one of the places where you learn not to be fleeced by the the fakers.
Time and again, it's been proven, that to ignore history dooms one to repeat it.
Not educating yourself, makes you an ineffective collector, in other words, a poncer.
Moving about effeminately or ineffectually.
The activities we do here are to educate ourselves, and enjoy; to learn the history, and celebrate the dedication to craftsmanship that came before us.
Eric has explained very well in his simultaneous post, the goals that are sought.
This forum is one of the places where you learn not to be fleeced by the the fakers.
Time and again, it's been proven, that to ignore history dooms one to repeat it.
Not educating yourself, makes you an ineffective collector, in other words, a poncer.
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EA42 has the right of it, poncing is generally used to denote mincing about and wasting time.
And regardless of what anyone thinks about the supposedly non-genuine lines, grinds and sundry other bitches and whinges about that knife.....I for one would be vastly pleased to use and carry it on a daily basis.
It sure as hell leaves the various Chinese offerings for dead.....and for $80.00 it is extremely GOOD value.
Ps, makers/item history is interesting....moaning about a perfectly good knife is not.
And regardless of what anyone thinks about the supposedly non-genuine lines, grinds and sundry other bitches and whinges about that knife.....I for one would be vastly pleased to use and carry it on a daily basis.
It sure as hell leaves the various Chinese offerings for dead.....and for $80.00 it is extremely GOOD value.
Ps, makers/item history is interesting....moaning about a perfectly good knife is not.
- Joined
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- 45,212
(moderator cap on):
no-one,
You're new here so perhaps you may be operating under a bit of a misconception.
The folks you are referring to are very seasoned and educated knife users as well as collectors.
They know what a useful knife is and also know that utility isn't necessarily a function of price and/or pedigree.
However, they are also interested in the history of various brands and marques and learning from both the genuine and counterfeit examples of the patterns once offered by these former establishments.
Charlie is attempting to further the education of other members by demonstrating some of the issues that invariably arise when one is faced with the option to purchase what appears to be a genuine example of a classic pattern from yesteryear. He knows that even a counterfeit knife may be a great user and last for decades but that is beside the point.
Feel free to contact myself or Gus if you have any questions about the forum that aren't addressed in the guidelines at the top of the page.
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2005
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- 5,533
Moderator awarded a thread user gold star for non-ponce, concise and clear statement of forum purpose. That, my fellow travelers are why you and I stay here. A manly nod of the head to Blues.
My final on this is, know matter all the problems, I have a tray of oddballs and fake Bucks and will display them in collection as such. Maybe we should do a oddball and fake only thread. Should be entertaining.
300Bucks
My final on this is, know matter all the problems, I have a tray of oddballs and fake Bucks and will display them in collection as such. Maybe we should do a oddball and fake only thread. Should be entertaining.
300Bucks
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- Joined
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I think Charlie may have done something like that here in the past and I know that he mentioned to me that he has or was going to do an exhibition of counterfeits at shows he exhibits at.
Good idea for a thread to continue the education.
(And thanks for the kind words.
)Do not bother with fake threads....they have been done to death, post some pictures and info on early Schrade Walden and Camillus bone folders.....something that is of interest for users.
In fact, you can throw in some interesting variations from IXL as well.....just be sure to lean towards those of us that use.
And if you truly wish to hold the attention of others, then an expose on jigging styles and such would also be of interest.
In fact, you can throw in some interesting variations from IXL as well.....just be sure to lean towards those of us that use.
And if you truly wish to hold the attention of others, then an expose on jigging styles and such would also be of interest.
waynorth
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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ALL of these subjects have been, and continue to be, covered in this and other sections of Bladeforums. All it takes is a wee bit of effort to find the locations.
There are forums within Bladeforums on all these topics. You can go and insult the people on the Camillus Collectors' forum, the Schrade Collectors' forum and many others. You can find out myriad methods and systems on how to sharpen your user.
About the only thing you won't find here, is a forum on Dale Carnegie's treatise on How to Win Friends and Influence People.
Alas, sharpening your social skills, is entirely up to you!!
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Folks, let's please leave it there. I have already sent a warning to "no-one" regarding his participation and posts in this thread and on this forum. Let's not let this thread or this forum descend further from this point. Please take any personal business to email or PM so that this thread doesn't have to be closed and no infractions issued. Thank you.
Let me get this right, you are throwing a hissy fit and have your panties in a twist.....and you are bitching at me for daring to request something interesting.
Tell you what ...if you want to get stroppy with me you can take it to personals...but be warned that I do not really give a toss about insults and such, so you will have to be somewhat more inventive with your invective or you simply will not retain my attention.
Tell you what ...if you want to get stroppy with me you can take it to personals...but be warned that I do not really give a toss about insults and such, so you will have to be somewhat more inventive with your invective or you simply will not retain my attention.
waynorth
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
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- Messages
- 32,748
So let's make like Ponce (de Leon)
, and do a little exploring!
Here are some of my favorite tools for discovery, comparison pictures. Unfortunately, only one of these is a 236 style Jack, besides the subject knife, but I put in the 836 and 837 whittlers, to compare jigging, and other features.
The other Jack is a Shapleigh D-E, but I think you will all agree it is from the same tooling, with the added benefit of having a mint blade.
I don't like to comment at first, so I do not inadvertently color your responses. If more pics are needed, I will try to supply them.
, and do a little exploring! Here are some of my favorite tools for discovery, comparison pictures. Unfortunately, only one of these is a 236 style Jack, besides the subject knife, but I put in the 836 and 837 whittlers, to compare jigging, and other features.
The other Jack is a Shapleigh D-E, but I think you will all agree it is from the same tooling, with the added benefit of having a mint blade.
I don't like to comment at first, so I do not inadvertently color your responses. If more pics are needed, I will try to supply them.
i find collecting knives more interesting because of the fakes, alterations, etc.
if every knife was exactly what it purported to be, collecting them would be much less fun.
when i started collecting and looked at a knife, all i saw was, a knife. thanks to Mr. Waynorth, Eric, Codger, Hal, BRL, and a great many others here at BF, i have learned a fair bit about all the various parts that make up a knife, and how knives were put together originally. now when i look at a knife, i see the scales, the blade profile, the swages, etc., and make my own assessment(still often wrong). the "fakes and alterations" are here as instruments of learning and opportunity for mentoring. i am very grateful for BF and it's fine members who put much effort into sharing their knowledge gained over many years of study and serve as mentors to us beginners.
roland
if every knife was exactly what it purported to be, collecting them would be much less fun.
when i started collecting and looked at a knife, all i saw was, a knife. thanks to Mr. Waynorth, Eric, Codger, Hal, BRL, and a great many others here at BF, i have learned a fair bit about all the various parts that make up a knife, and how knives were put together originally. now when i look at a knife, i see the scales, the blade profile, the swages, etc., and make my own assessment(still often wrong). the "fakes and alterations" are here as instruments of learning and opportunity for mentoring. i am very grateful for BF and it's fine members who put much effort into sharing their knowledge gained over many years of study and serve as mentors to us beginners.
roland