Any folding knives built as strong as a CS Spartan?

Maybe something like the benchmade bedlam but with a thicker blade 4mm maybe.

Hell yeah

Bedlam with 0.16" thick blade (hopefully with a better steel such as M4 or M390) would be an absolute monster of a knife
Add a thicker stop pin and thicker axis bar as well , and it would definitely hold it's own against any Tri-Ad lock out there , and with ease imo

Tri-Ad lock is not a good lock , it's a phenomenal lock , but people here for sure overrate it a little bit
Strong as hell , but that sucker stick hard , not smooth at all and slow
A beefy AXIS lock can probably be just as strong and super fast and smooth at same time
 
Hell yeah

Bedlam with 0.16" thick blade (hopefully with a better steel such as M4 or M390) would be an absolute monster of a knife
Add a thicker stop pin and thicker axis bar as well , and it would definitely hold it's own against any Tri-Ad lock out there , and with ease imo

Tri-Ad lock is not a good lock , it's a phenomenal lock , but people here for sure overrate it a little bit
Strong as hell , but that sucker stick hard , not smooth at all and slow
A beefy AXIS lock can probably be just as strong and super fast and smooth at same time
I think it's already the best tactical knife out there, if only it had a wave... I'm gonna get CM to put grind a wave into mine.
 
for the record, I have never tested a frame lock that held over 235 lbs (4" from the pivot) and these were top of the line heavy duty folders. this may sound good but it not. the knife was 8+ oz. I'd have to look at the video but as I recall the knife would have been unusable after 100-150 lbs. While in contrast ,last week, I tested a Cold Steel "hold out" (4 inch skean dhu) and it went to 300 lbs at 4" from pivot and weighed 4oz. Realize that the strength to weight ratio is different in a folder with thick,thin, wide and narrow blades but you get the idea.
 
The Espada Large definitely caught my eye but it has two drawbacks for me:
1) It a little unwieldy (in my hands anyway)
2) The handle is slipperier (of course the G10 version isn't but it doesn't have full steel liners so I doubt it's as strong)

I think it is full liners under the g10.

I just got a large clip point Voyager with the triad lock. Full liners with uncoated steel. Very solid lockup and very light at less than 40 bucks :)
 
The only other lock design with the potential to surpass the Tri-ad in my opinion is the Ram-lock. Not the current pocket bushman folder's, a custom version with thicker blade and etc would be phenomenally strong :)

In my imagination's opinion of course :)
 
It's known that there are many people who dislike Cold Steel, you can't expect to post a question involving Cold Steel and expect people not to post their opinions.

This is a hilarious statement. It is actually not all that weird an expectation for people who don't like Cold Steel to just stay away from a thread about one of their folders. Your opinion about this subject will obviously only be appreciated by other haters, so that must be what you cater to. Yet you all but admit you can't help yourself.
Why not start your own little CS hate thread in W&C? You can even use foul language there! :thumbup: You can do a new one every day! :cool:
 
^That would be about as likely as someone asking for a recommendation for a new Emerson and expecting loads of people not to say "Emersons are over priced crap, get a Spydie" It'd be a great ideal if people stayed on topic, but in practice it is unexpected when it comes to certain brands.

I do think the Spartan is the toughest knife out right now, but that certainly isn't the most important aspect in knife buying for many. It does seem like it'd be fun to pick one up to beat on though!
 
Marcinek, I looked for those videos and couldn't find them. Can you post a link?
 
Dont think this particular video was linked yet. Espada tested up to 601 pounds. Does not say whether it was still fully usable afterwards, but fun to watch.
[video=youtube;64MdLjeDfbA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64MdLjeDfbA&feature=related[/video]
 
for the record, I have never tested a frame lock that held over 235 lbs (4" from the pivot) and these were top of the line heavy duty folders. this may sound good but it not. the knife was 8+ oz. I'd have to look at the video but as I recall the knife would have been unusable after 100-150 lbs. While in contrast ,last week, I tested a Cold Steel "hold out" (4 inch skean dhu) and it went to 300 lbs at 4" from pivot and weighed 4oz. Realize that the strength to weight ratio is different in a folder with thick,thin, wide and narrow blades but you get the idea.
There's been plenty of tests published in magazines abroad and done by manufacturers and custom makers that bear this out as well, but it seems the only honest men are the ones trying to sell you a framelock. Every other lock design is being peddled by charlatans or something.
 
for the record, I have never tested a frame lock that held over 235 lbs (4" from the pivot) and these were top of the line heavy duty folders. this may sound good but it not.

I'd say it's good enough.
My Benchmade Skirmish (frame-lock) handled heavy chopping, and batonning crossways through a bunch of saplings to make a shelter.
What more do you need in the way of strength than being able to chop and baton with a folder without any play at all afterwards?
 
Also, as regards this thread, what sort of toughness is being asked about?
Handle?
Blade?
Pivot?
Lock?
Edge?
Tip?

There's alot of different kinds of toughness one could ask about.
 
There's been plenty of tests published in magazines abroad and done by manufacturers and custom makers that bear this out as well, but it seems the only honest men are the ones trying to sell you a framelock. Every other lock design is being peddled by charlatans or something.

I read you hardheart, but I don't really understand what you mean. :confused: I've never thought despite this hype that "framelocks are the next thing to a fixed blade!" I've read statements like that go unchallenged on the forum but don't know if that's what you mean above.

I've busted up two framelocks - (company name withheld) that became loose, allowing play in all directions, locked in at over 100% (overtravel) due to semi-hard use but not what I'd consider hard use or abuse. I think they're on par with linerlocks.

These triads are at the top of the heap despite the Spyderco claims regarding their compression lock. I say sacrifice one and hang, say, 300#s on it for starters.
 
These triads are at the top of the heap despite the Spyderco claims regarding their compression lock. I say sacrifice one and hang, say, 300#s on it for starters.

If you want to buy me a vice and 300 pounds of weight, and the chain and hook to hang it from, I have a spare Superhawk I'd put to the test.:)
 
With respect to Andrew, I don't think that any reasonable person could argue that his locks are not exceptionally strong, dare I say, overbuilt. That said, from my perspective, the lock strength issue is akin to blowing yourself up with 4lbs of C4 vs. a 10Mt Hydrogen bomb. Both will do the trick, but one is just horribly 'overkill', IMO. Now don't get me wrong, I have a nice collection of CS knives that I am very pleased with, so I am not saying that it isn't nice to have overbuilt locks, just that to me, it really isn't necessary.
 
I think there's a fair amount of evidence demonstrating that the Tri-Ad lock is one of the strongest on the market. As for being able to support 500+ pounds, I was told by a Spyderco rep that in their testing of the new model BBL on the Manix 2, the knife supported over 1000 points at the pivot, at which point the handle disintegrated, while the lock remained fine. That's pretty darn good to me. I haven't heard much in the way of claims about the compression lock, and to be honest, I am unsure why it's supposed to be stronger than a liner lock. The physics is very similar, and they're going to fail in the same way. I don't think the AXIS lock is going to be quite as strong as the Tri-Ad or BBL locks from the tests I've read about, but it still is a VERY strong lock, and by far the fastest of the three.

But I don't really understand the point of these tests. I mean, seriously, under what circumstances would you ever be putting that kind of weight on a knife of any sort, let alone a folding knife? If you ARE going to find some absurdly weird fat alien circumstance in which to use said knife, why not just get a fixed blade and be done with it? I EDC a fixed blade and a folder personally.

Anything over the strength requirements of a well-built framelock is marketing overkill in my book if it doesn't accomplish some other task. AXIS and BBL locks both permit one-hand opening of the blade without much in the way of wrist english. I haven't been interested in any of the Cold Steel overengineered folding wonders for a variety of reasons (although I own and like several CS products), so I can't speak to what other advantages the Tri-Ad has beyond strength.

But think about this realistically, and ask yourself 1 question. Can I envision ANY sort of cutting or knife-related task that I could reasonably be expected to put my knife to in which I would put anywhere even close to the kinds of weights that we're dealing with here. Unless you are superhuman, and I don't care HOW strong you are otherwise, the human body is unlikely to be able to put those stresses on your lock. If it keeps the blade from closing on my fingers during any of my knife-related tasks, that's good enough for me.

Here's some examples to consider, that are in my opinion the most likely tasks you could perform with a knife that puts stress on a lock:

1. Sawing on something where the knife gets stuck periodically. Using your arm muscles, even putting your back and legs into it, you're still not going to put 500 pounds onto the knife. Your wrist or arm would give out before you can approach those stresses.

2. Chopping down a tree. First, why are you chopping down a tree with a folding knife? Second, I'm gonna challenge you to sink your knife into a tree with an arm powered swing deep enough to require 500 pounds of force to pull it out. Please take video of your attempts, and send it to Cold Steel so they can use it for marketing. Maybe the great LCT can do it?

3. For some reason, you need to climb up a cliff or something with your folding knife, and you're stupidly doing so in such a fashion that you are climbing against the knife, so that it has a chance of closing, as opposed to spine-up, which is what you'd see even in a movie. First, again, please make a video of your climb. That would be very cool to watch, if you were actually successful, and managed to sink the blade in deep enough to provide a handle to climb on. Second, I don't care how strong your knife lock is, you're replacing that knife after the climb, because you've likely ruined it in any number of different ways.

4. You belong to a knifetests or some other ridiculous site that requires you to abuse knives and attempt to break them in all kinds of disrespectful ways, such as smacking them with a sledgehammer. In that circumstance, I ask you to please stay well away from me and my knife collection, and if I were any maker who actually respected my own product, I would refuse to sell to you ever again. Knives are designed for cutting, not abusing. If you have some urge to destroy knives, what are you doing on Blade Forums?
 
I haven't heard much in the way of claims about the compression lock, and to be honest, I am unsure why it's supposed to be stronger than a liner lock. The physics is very similar, and they're going to fail in the same way.

The design and physics are entirely different.
You need to look at how a compression lock actually functions. It's a closer cousin to an AXIS lock than a liner lock.
Seriously, go look for yourself.:)
 
This is a hilarious statement. It is actually not all that weird an expectation for people who don't like Cold Steel to just stay away from a thread about one of their folders. Your opinion about this subject will obviously only be appreciated by other haters, so that must be what you cater to. Yet you all but admit you can't help yourself.
Why not start your own little CS hate thread in W&C? You can even use foul language there! :thumbup: You can do a new one every day! :cool:

Read into what I said as much as I want. I never stated that I disliked Cold Steel; in fact, I own an American Lawman and an AK-47. I simply stated that in any situation that required as much strength as shown in the video, I would prefer a small fixed blade. So keep up the good analysis. My point was simply this: there are extreme opinions regarding Cold Steel, and it's faulty for Nternal to think that people who dislike the brand will come into a thread regarding said brand. You can continue to make egregious assumptions all you want. I never made a statement in regards to my distaste for Cold Steel, simply that there are many out there who do dislike them. When posting anything in General Knife Discussion, you should except the fact that people will post outside the boundaries the OP had initially set up.
 
As for being able to support 500+ pounds, I was told by a Spyderco rep that in their testing of the new model BBL on the Manix 2, the knife supported over 1000 points at the pivot, at which point the handle disintegrated, while the lock remained fine.
1000 lbs at the pivot would translate to what at 4" from the pivot? I am curious but don't have the math.
 
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