Any response to this? S35VN Related...

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I'm totally a dumb dumb when it comes to all this "s3035vnm4cpmaus8chromemolly" etc etc stuff...learning though, but this is basically how i feel also:)

DBH said:
Ok, I am a gonna say this, because I own knives that cost 5 bucks to well over a grand, I DO NOT EXPECT knives to cut metal objects multiple times, no matter who the manufacturer is cold steel, CRK, or Ginsu (spelling check). Knives are not for cutting metals, repeatedly, period. They are meant for cutting as you have said, paper, soft materials, cardboard, field dressing game, and plain old utility work, metal not included. I understand what you are saying to speed up the test for the you tube, you cut something harder. But really, that is apples and hand grenades. If I need to cut wire, I will use a pair of wire snips or the wire cutters on a utility tool.

Bottom line, is there something wrong with the heat treat with all of the makers that utilized S35VN, then it should be known and be rectified, no matter who the maker. Has anyone asked or tried to contact any companies that utilize S35VN on their criteria and testing that has been completed prior to their manufacture of the knife.

Do I own a S35VN knife that I am happy with? yes, a CRK large Insingo that has been my EDC for over two months that I use daily in fire scenes. It has cut up many things, even nicked a metal wire or two and metal staples. Has the edge chipped? no Has the edge stayed sharp? yes. Any regrets? no Is it the new super steel for me? The jury is still out for me.
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Corpus said:
I want to know why Ankerson hasn't tested Strider's S35VN. You're a popular guy, surely you have friends who would lend you one of theirs, if you didn't own any yourself. Don't see why the focus is solely on CR, and not testing other big names using S35VN. It's funny to me when people assume it'll be good because they use PB HT. Yet, seems to me, not too long ago CR's quality was unquestioned also. Just saying, I'd like to see the other brand's S35VN in this price bracket tested. Not conjecture.
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The same reason why I haven't tested any of their other knives on rope for the comparison in edge retention, they are too thick behind the edge for the testing.

I wasn't able to test some other knives along the way either for the same reason.

Also when the knives are $500 a pop for something with a long enough blade to test that just might have something to do with it.

Sometimes things just don't fit into a neat little box for various reasons.

The ones that are thin enough for me to test are around $1800 each. ;)
 
me2 said:
The point is to show that a steel used in a $60 knife will do something better than a steel in a $300 knife, and do it in a short enough video that you can post it on line w/o too much hassle. The only way to show a difference under these conditions is choose something fairly demanding to cut. You could just cut cardboard, but you won't fit that into a 15 minute video. To separate the good knives from the bad, you're going to have to do things that will potentially damage the knives. If all you want a knife to cut is food, paper, cardboard, and other soft material, and you know how to sharpen fairly quickly, any knife will do. The cutting volume on the videos is pretty low. If I paid $300 for a knife and it didn't cut this cable a few times without damage, I'd send it back.
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Dulling the edge really isn't the problem...

Dulling the edge without damaging the edge and or marring the knife is the problem for knives that are on loan. I am sure not many people would want their new $400 knives all scratched up or lots of steel removed due to edge damage when they get them back.

Then there is how dull the knives have to be before they have failed ect, that would be kinda hard to fit into a reasonable video.
 
A few notes on testing for general information.

Most of the guys who are doing the real testing are doing it on their own dime and taking their time ect.

Yes, sometimes we get knives on loan to test, but it's not that often I can tell you.

So no it's not just go out and blow a few grand on knives at a drop of a hat just to test a few knives, some of us have tested hundreds of knives over the years so it can be a serious investment that can really add up fast.

Some people talk like we just want to test a certian knife and the next day it just shows up at our door for free, it just doesn't work that way.

Or we just get a this huge box full of knives to test and send back once we are done.
 
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I couldn't agree with this more. Honestly, people here almost seem ungrateful for the testing. Sure, no one is asking me to do it - but to sit here and do nothing but criticize makes me wonder just how sour the grapes are for them

Since you mentioned money, it takes LOADs of money to buy these knives and test them. Hell, I've bought particular knives just because someone asked for me to test a certain steel.

In addition to the monetary aspect, I wish people would think of the time it takes. We have to spend the time sharpening the knife for testing (for consistency), doing the actual testing, uploading the video, resharpening the knife. Rinse and repeat. It eats up a HUGE amount of time. Guess what we get for it? Nothing, except for a lot of people telling us what we could have done better.






Ankerson said:
A few notes on testing for general information.

Most of the guys who are doing the real testing are doing it on their own dime and taking their time ect.

Yes, sometimes we get knives on loan to test, but it's not that often I can tell you.

So no it's not just go out and blow a few grand on knives at a drop of a hat just to test a few knives, some of us have tested hundreds of knives over the years so it can be a serious investment that can really add up fast.

Some people talk like we just want to test a certian knife and the next day it just shows up at our door for free, it just doesn't work that way.

Or we just get a this huge box full of knives to test and send back once we are done.
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I have cut through several anvils, iron ore meteorites and dissected a Buick (including engine block) with my Sebbie 21 in S35vn and it still splits molecules. I don't sharpen it, I just wipe it down with 80-year-old cognac.
 
It's very easy to slate something when all you have to do is sit and watch it.......

CrimsonTideShooter said:
I couldn't agree with this more. Honestly, people here almost seem ungrateful for the testing. Sure, no one is asking me to do it - but to sit here and do nothing but criticize makes me wonder just how sour the grapes are for them

Since you mentioned money, it takes LOADs of money to buy these knives and test them. Hell, I've bought particular knives just because someone asked for me to test a certain steel.

In addition to the monetary aspect, I wish people would think of the time it takes. We have to spend the time sharpening the knife for testing (for consistency), doing the actual testing, uploading the video, resharpening the knife. Rinse and repeat. It eats up a HUGE amount of time. Guess what we get for it? Nothing, except for a lot of people telling us what we could have done better.
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Maybe Chris should take note of Scott Cook's S90V Lochsa and start using S90V and charging $675. ;)
 
I'd prefer the Sebenza's open back design to the Lochsa. Bring it on.
 
I think what people take issue with is the fine line between knife 'use' and knife 'abuse'. But whenever the results of a test don't gel with people's expectations of how a knife they paid good money for should perform you are going to get some unhappy reactions.

CrimsonTideShooter said:
I couldn't agree with this more. Honestly, people here almost seem ungrateful for the testing. Sure, no one is asking me to do it - but to sit here and do nothing but criticize makes me wonder just how sour the grapes are for them

Since you mentioned money, it takes LOADs of money to buy these knives and test them. Hell, I've bought particular knives just because someone asked for me to test a certain steel.

In addition to the monetary aspect, I wish people would think of the time it takes. We have to spend the time sharpening the knife for testing (for consistency), doing the actual testing, uploading the video, resharpening the knife. Rinse and repeat. It eats up a HUGE amount of time. Guess what we get for it? Nothing, except for a lot of people telling us what we could have done better.
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I still think all this commotion is a little premature. Now once a pattern starts to emerge with multiple reports from various
individuals with similar results then I think you can saftely say there is a problem. So with that in mind I urge all the s35VN sebenza owners and
other knives in S35VN to go out and use your knives and make sure to record as much data as possbile.
I commend CTS and Ankerson for doing their part.
 
Buffalohump said:
I think what people take issue with is the fine line between knife 'use' and knife 'abuse'. But whenever the results of a test don't gel with people's expectations of how a knife they paid good money for should perform you are going to get some unhappy reactions.
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I don't really see how cutting rope could be considered abuse. The wire test, maybe, but it's a stretch.

I totally agree with your reasoning though. People do NOT like to hear that something they paid good money for may be flawed. I am usually used as a scapegoat.
 
One thing that I wonder is what variables there are in these knife steels in practical application. By that I mean, knife steel seems to me to be
somewhat of a compromise. You get something here and give something else up there. Maybe there is an issue of edge retention with S35VN. I
guess the jury is still out in that regard but I don't wonder if there are other inherent design features of S35VN as a knife steel for standard EDC's or even tactical knives in practical application that this particular test is never going to expose. That is not intended to knock the test as every
test stands on its own in an absolute sense and this one appears to be conducted fairly, consuming the time and effort of the tester for our
benefit. It would be hard not to applaud such efforts.

While I also think people should use their knives, it is not our job to supply the manufacturers with documentation so that they can sell more
knives. It is their job to tell us why we should be happy about this change. I do think that the suppliers especially when making a material change of this magnitude, need to explain what they are doing and why. These are expensive knives. often purchased for their collectible value as well as being purchased as working tools. I find it a bit less than appealing that none of the major suppliers making this change have offered word 1 in
their marketing materials so that we could value the material and the final product in the way they as suppliers intend us to value them.

Regardless of the results of this test it makes such little sense to me that you simply see a spec and a change of this magnitude without a single word of printed material supporting either the change or even the material itself in an absolute sense. These are knives for heaven sake. The
blade steel, its properties and manufacturers rational for using it should be an integral part of the support documentation and marketing materials for the product whether making a change or not. Even manufacturers that bother to inform us up front of the hardness at which they are
producing their steels should also provide us with the practical rational for using that material and I think this is particularly true as you run up
the price scale.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant because it is not. I just don't get it other than to surmise that in most markets that have a hobby component to
them we as hobby participants seem to be treated often like we should just run on out there with our checkbooks in hand and don't deserve the
same level of documentation that a buyer of something that is a tool only expects. As someone said earlier this is not a specific comment about
Chris Reeve. This happens to be the Chris Reeve forum so there ya' go. I do think CR might be more engaging in this regard if in fact as reported
he has been integral to this change. It does appear to be a change which copycat behavior being what it is seems to be sweeping across some of the high end knife suppliers.
 
I think people do get a bit too uppity when it comes to knife tests and the results, expected or otherwise. I carry and use my knife every day for a wide range of things, some more extreme than others. I usually need to sharpen it after a few weeks or so give or take. If that few weeks worth of cutting is done in a few hours during a test can that now be construed as abuse or pushing the boudaries of normal use ? I don't see any one whittling bricks, making feather sticks out of rebar or skinning a TV with these knives. Cutting rope and cable or cutting any array of different materials should still very much be seen as normal use. Some how it was fine when it takes 3 weeks to blunt a knife, but if it's done in a day.....:rolleyes:
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
It can be re heat treated. :)
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This could be problematic with thermal distortion or worse, especially around or propagating from the thin cutting face. Knife makers usually leave enough material on the blade blanks after an initial grinding before HT to mitigate this problem and sometimes that includes accommodation for clamping too.
 
To John / CTS Re the CRK Sebenza S35VN edge issue.

It would be surprising if getting your blade Rockwell tested voided CRK warranty, that is provided it was done in a suitable location so as not to interfere with operation or act as a stress raiser. Maybe somewhere on the tang area might be suitable. The result could be very interesting as a starting point to help understand the problem with your CPM S35VN.

My experience with hardness testing on the Rockwell scale is that it’s not expensive. I’d be willing to make a financial contribution to that end if you decide to proceed. Send me a PM if it’s a go.
 
I would like to thank all the folks that take the time and their money to do these tests. This way they have no dog in the fight and don't have to worry about pissing of the manufactures or their subscribers. We also have to remember that it is FREE. They do this because they enjoy it. It also helps us to know how we want to spend our money.
 
Has anybody done any research on the cost difference of the two steels in bar stock. It is hard to really tell from Internet searches but it really does
not look like there is much of a cost incentive for using one over the other at least from what little information one could glean from the Internet.
Does anybody have any information relevant to buying production quantities of the stuff?
 
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