AR M4 style rifle, which one?

Here are some more recent numbers. Not working the way it was sold, is it?

Homicide Assault Sexual assault Robbery Kidnapping
1996 354 114,156 14,542 16,372 478
1997 364 124,500 14,353 21,305 564
1998 332 130,903 14,336 23,801 707
1999 386 134,271 14,104 22,606 766
2000 363 138,708 15,759 23,336 695
2001 346 152,283 16,897 26,591 767
2002 365 160,118 17,977 20,989 706
2003 341 157,280 18,237 19,709 696
2004 293 156,849 18,400 16,513 768
2005 295 166,499 18,172 16,787 730
2006 319 170,907 18,211 17,284 725

Australian Institute of Criminology
 
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Sent from a "friend" Down Under...

Wake up now before it's too late!

Some people may believe the above is a bit harsh but I think not. Unlike America we (Australia) had no mechanism which guaranteed the right of a lawful citizen to own a firearm, it was taken for granted that this was the case. We believed that the government wouldn't dare make a move to limit this, why would they? It was criminals that misused firearms, not your average participant in the shooting sports. WE WERE WRONG. No ifs no buts. As a direct result of the Port Arthur Massacre (35 killed by a loner with an IQ of 70 odd) all semi-auto and pump action long arms were declared illegal and the number of hoops put in place to get a firearms licence and purchase a firearm were increased causing many to drop out of the shooting sports out of frustration, prohibitive costs and what could be described as depression at the state of affairs.

How could this happen you ask. Well firstly you have a government policy which, in my state of Victoria was created back in 1987 (this was state legislation) which stated " the long term aim of this legislation is to remove any perception that ownership of a firearm is a right" (words to that effect, 13 years is a long time when your 29}. Attempts to bring some of these things to pass at a Federal level consistently failed due to the more independent nature of several state.

Depending on whether Labour or Liberal were in power (the 2 main political parties) various pet projects got wheeled out from the corridors of power whittling away at firearm ownership. This was aided and abetted by the media, all media outlets here are owned by either Kerry Packer or Rupert Murdoch and you clearly see on many occasions "you scratch my back....". Every opportunity was taken when it presented itself to demonize firearms and firearm owners, they may have only been little things but they help form "public" opinion. We're not talking about the shooters and the Antis but the fence sitters, the average person in the street.

As soon as the Port Arthur Massacre occurred the media went into overdrive, bear in mind you've spent quite a deal of time brainwashing Joe Public, rationale went out the window and there was an out cry to ban all civilian owned firearms, guns were being frequently referred to as "weapons of mass destruction". All the political parties were unanimous in their support of the legislation and Joe Public could now sleep soundly because all those "nasty weapons" had been destroyed.

Why did it happen? We were naive in believing it couldn't happen, "it's only the Gun Control mob we have to worry about" they would say. When semiauto centre fire was banned in Victoria the old timers would "you should have a military style rifle anyway" their rabbit guns (22 semiauto) would be safe. We were just plain apathetic about building up goodwill and being heard.

What can you do? Introduce someone new to the shooting sports. Correct the misconceptions you hear, do it politely but firmly, don't allow it to degenerate into a slanging match those that overhear may be the person you win over. Be sure of your facts, never misrepresent them. The NRA did it self a big disservice when it stated that Australia's crime rate had risen 600% (giving the impression it had been as a result of the 1997 legislation) it was in fact a 600% increase between the years 1993 to 1999 and is directly linked to the recession and explosion in heroin use, only a small % of that may be attributed to the 1997 legislation and only to the time following the passing of the said legislation.

Read the local paper and find those article that are anti gun, most people use these as the basis for their opinion. Use these as the basis for your rebuttal. Same goes for the TV.

Always conduct yourself in a manner appropriate, you don't know who might be watching, it can make the difference between a supporter and an opponent.

Lastly DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU. Speak up before it's to late 'cause once your there you can't go back.

Get out there and make a difference.
 
You know Matthew, I am bagging on your country. I think you may need an intervention!

Why not just arrest the bad guys and leave the good guys alone?

New law to ban swords
Peter Mickelburough, state politics reporter
09mar04

SWORDS will be outlawed from July under new laws to curb the growing use of the weapons in street brawls.

Police Minister Andre Haermeyer said the ban would help police overcome a culture of young people arming themselves with swords.
"For most people running around the street carrying swords there is absolutely no reason for them to be carrying those weapons," he said yesterday.

From July, anyone found possessing or selling a sword without a permit will face up to six months' jail and fines of up to $12,000.

Existing sword owners must surrender their weapons to police, sell them to a licensed dealer or apply to the Chief Commissioner for specific approval.

Collectors and people with legitimate cultural, religious or military reasons to own swords will be exempted from the ban, but must store them under lock and key and have a burglar alarm.

The sword ban follows a string of recent attacks and a regulatory impact statement undertaken by the State Government last year.

Last week, a 13-year-old boy was arrested and charged after allegedly charging police with a sword near Castlemaine, in central Victoria.

A 21-year-old man had his hand severed by a samurai sword in a confrontation between 40 men in the Fitzroy Gardens a fortnight ago -- the second brawl involving swords in 24 hours.

Huy Huynh, 19, was chased from the Salt nightclub and hacked to death nearby in July 2002 by a mob using samurai swords and machetes.

The new laws will make it illegal to sell swords to anyone who does not have a permit.

Sword sellers will have to keep a register of buyers' details and make it available for police to inspect.

Mr Haermeyer said groups such as highland dancers, historic re-enactment groups, bonafide collectors and people with family heirlooms could apply for an exemption from the licensing services branch of Victoria Police.

"Legitimate sword owners understand the importance of ensuring that their swords do not fall into the wrong hands," he said.

"The vast majority of the community would say, 'Look, there's no place for people just being able to go out there and buy these things and carry them around the street'."

Mr Haermeyer said the exact definition of a sword under the new regulations was still being considered.

He said machetes would remain a controlled weapon, requiring a person to have a legitimate reason for carrying them.

The Government is also looking at bans on some other weapons, such as crossbows, and greater restriction on the sale of prohibited and regulated weapons at weekend markets.

Mr Haermeyer warned that police would be actively hunting for knives and swords after being given new powers and 480 metal detectors late last year, allowing them to search people they reasonably suspected were carrying weapons.
 
Not a big fan of the "AR look". This I could live with: :D

51922045.DSC03529.JPG
 
LOL you guys didnt get your info from Pro-gun sites did you
we can both sit here and pick out the info that suits us

Stage2 i pointed out that shooting in my second post

guys as the years go on regardless crime will go up
Of course the argument is then why ban , not guns but semi auto guns.
One..and i hope to never be in this situation, but i hope somebody can disarm a guy massacering people if he has to reload evertime.
and two..the only people upset are gun freaks
Sports shooters still have access as per my previous post, they always had to obtain permits anyway.
It hasnt affected anything, my family owns all up 20 guns..did before and still do
No semi auto's but quality and caliber is up..were happy

And i will promise to stop believing everything i read about big bad America if you guys stop believing everything the pro gun lobbyist are saying about gun control in Aus.
It's a crock..the Gun Control Association has a whopping 2 members.....
if that scares you then i am worried.
The Shooters party has two seats on the Government legislative assembly
also
One government policy was to compensate shooters for giving up the sport. Approximately 25% of pistol shooters took this offer, and relinquished their licences and their right to own pistols for sport. In the state of Victoria $A21 million was spent "buying back" 18,124 firearms, while in the same period Victorians imported 15,184 firearms to replace their confiscated target pistols..still worried?
also
In 2000, the American National Rifle Association claimed that violent crimes had increased in Australia since the introduction of new laws based on some highly selective statistics from newspaper articles. Federal Attorney General Daryl Williams accused the NRA of falsifying government statistics and urged the NRA to "remove any reference to Australia" from its website......hmmmm

Of course in regards to suicides...people did just find other ways

In 2002, the Sporting Shooters Assocciation of Australia was the sole shooting organisation to win exemptions for handgun calibre restrictions for its Handgun Metallic silhouette and Single Action Shooting competitions....not so bad hey

So come on guys its not as bad as some people make it seem..we never did have the freedom with guns as you guys do anyway..so it really hasnt bothered us

I do appreciate the concern that our big protective brother America has for us Aussies though...and no i'm not taking the piss
 
SkinnyJoe that looks awsome
gotta ask how does that scope work..i am only used to scopes mounted closer and that seems a bit far away...or doesnt it matter with that particular scope?

Mikeyd..now i am concerned..i like my knifes......
And i agree they need to concentrate on the crims and the illegal import of firearms instead of hammering the honest gun owner..no argument

But politics is like big business(i work for BHP) if something goes horribly wrong(massacre/mine death) and they do nothing, then it will effect them(re-election/shares price) so sometimes their knee jerk reaction is a little over the top....one day they might ammend the laws....maybe...till then we will continue to vote in those that are for guns.
And most pollies are..there just a little cautious..who wants to be the pollie that brings back semiautos and then they imediatly have another massacre....good luck at next re-election..if you make it that far.
 
Matthew Donegan said:
<snip>

So come on guys its not as bad as some people make it seem..we never did have the freedom with guns as you guys do anyway..so it really hasnt bothered us.
Click to expand...

The fact that you keep repeating things like "so it really hasn't bothered us", and such things is understandable (but bothersome to us in itself)... you've never truly had/experienced having, the inalienable, God given right to protect yourself, so the Governments attacks on that right, don't have the impact it would/should, if you'd have had that right to begin with.

If you didn't know you had a chocolate bar in your backpack, you wouldn't be upset not finding it if a government pickpocket had lifted it from you without your knowing about it

However, having realized after the fact that you DID have a chocolate bar (and had an inalienable RIGHT to have one), and that it had been taken from you, it seems odd not to want to take back what you deserved to have in the first place. I guess I can't understand your peoples willingness to just "not worry about it".:confused::confused:

I guess it's just simply a case of your not having something you should have had, and so not missing it when it was taken from you?:confused::confused:

As may have been pointed out previously, our second amendment isn't just about "self defense" and protecting ourselves as individuals from criminal activity, but also about having an ability to protect ourselves from an oppressive, corrupt Government. The latter may be the most impotent aspect.
 
Mate you dont know shit about me or what my life has entailed so i wont even comment on that first remark
If you want to live in constant fear of government oppression go for it
Your example is odd to say the least
That would be like saying that you never had a nuclear bomb so you should fight for the right to have one because you deserved to have one in the first place..:jerkit:
Having you crap on about how the Australian Government is oppresive just because they stopped people from owning semi auto's is pathetic
when you start living in a country of perfection maybe i'll start listening to your hogwash.
We have a healthy love of guns and go shooting on a regular basis..we just dont need high powered semi automatics to make our dicks look bigger
Australia's crime rate may have risen per head but it is still miniscule compared to America's.
The only one of you that has made a valid comment is Bitter1 as he has honestly admitted it's just for the cool/fun factor
I can understand buying one for the fun factor or buying one for the cool factor but to buy one for the "self defence" factor makes me worry that if Americas is so perfect ... what are you so worried about.:confused::confused:

Now if you want to have a friendly conversation about gun laws as i have been trying to do and maybe i bit of friendly rival country shit talk then sweet, but if you want to start getting all uppity then i will return the favour.
Again i have no issue with what you have and what i dont have..at the start of this post i asked a valid question as to what you may need one for and some of you decided to get all political and may have assumed i am pro-gun control..i'm not.
And i appolagise if i have gotten a wee bit fired up
I love my country as you all love yours and i dont take kindly to people making assumptions based on some articles they may have read or some feedback from somebody they know in Aus.

So shall we start again or is it a case of FU end of story?
 
Matthew Donegan said:
The only one of you that has made a valid comment is Bitter1 as he has honestly admitted it's just for the cool/fun factor
Click to expand...

Matthew, maybe that's because that's the reason you want to believe. If that's what you want to believe then you're living in a place called fantasy world my friend.

Matthew Donegan said:
I can understand buying one for the fun factor or buying one for the cool factor but to buy one for the "self defence" factor makes me worry that if Americas is so perfect ... what are you so worried about.:confused::confused:
Click to expand...

Once again I don't think you are being honest with this type of talk. Why would you want to limit how a person would or could defend themselves? I believe you are jealous of the rights we have and those that you gave up!

Matthew Donegan said:
Again i have no issue with what you have and what i dont have..
Click to expand...

You are projecting something completely opposite in your writings.
 
Matthew Donegan said:
Mate you dont know shit about me or what my life has entailed so i wont even comment on that first remark
Click to expand...

Can I assume that I am the "mate" to whom you refer?

But I DO know something about you. You are not allowed semi-auto's and you are fine with that fact.

The point of my first remark was "I understand why you don't miss, that which you never had."

I made no judgments about you or your country... I said that I just don't understand how you can not want, what is rightly yours. That you don't seem to want it, is totally up to you (and I don't have a problem with that). I however, want to keep my unalienable rights.

Matthew Donegan said:
If you want to live in constant fear of government oppression go for it
Click to expand...

But thats just it... I don't have to live in fear of my government at all because they HAVE NOT taken away my right to bear arms. When they take them away, then I'll have reason to fear them.

Matthew Donegan said:
Your example is odd to say the least
That would be like saying that you never had a nuclear bomb so you should fight for the right to have one because you deserved to have one in the first place..:jerkit:
Click to expand...

Not at all... I essentially said, "you/we don't miss what we've never had". At the same time though, a slave shouldn't need to see a free man, to realize that somethings wrong with having chains around his own ankles should he?

Matthew Donegan said:
Having you crap on about how the Australian Government is oppresive just because they stopped people from owning semi auto's is pathetic
Click to expand...

I don't believe I "crapped" on your Govt. ... that wasn't my intent (and I'm sorry you took it that way). Your Government thinks it is doing it's best for you... and you are happy with the government doing that. It's just that I would NOT be happy with that. A simple difference in opinion.

Matthew Donegan said:
when you start living in a country of perfection maybe i'll start listening to your hogwash.
We have a healthy love of guns and go shooting on a regular basis..we just dont need high powered semi automatics to make our dicks look bigger
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you read as "hogwash".

I believe you do have a healthy love of guns... you've clearly love all of the non-semi-auto guns that your government allowed you to keep... if this pleases you, great.

Matthew Donegan said:
Australia's crime rate may have risen per head but it is still miniscule compared to America's.
The only one of you that has made a valid comment is Bitter1 as he has honestly admitted it's just for the cool/fun factor
I can understand buying one for the fun factor or buying one for the cool factor but to buy one for the "self defence" factor makes me worry that if Americas is so perfect ... what are you so worried about.:confused::confused:
Click to expand...

I don't think I made any comparisons between our two countries crime rates... frankly, I don't care how our "crime rates" compare. Nor did I try to imply that "Americas is so perfect"... America is far from perfect... but in one specific way, I think America IS closer to "perfect" than Aus. is (we can have semi-autos and you can't;)).

Given the choice of a single shot or a semi-auto Glock beside the bed, I will "worry" much less if I have the semi-auto Glock!:D

Matthew Donegan said:
Now if you want to have a friendly conversation about gun laws as i have been trying to do and maybe i bit of friendly rival country shit talk then sweet, but if you want to start getting all uppity then i will return the favour.
Click to expand...

I'm not really interested in a conversation about "gun laws" (I like mine... and you seem satisfied with less... cool by me:thumbup:).

This discussion thread isn't about laws, it's about AR/M4 type rifles, and I've enjoyed reading all of the different opinions etc..

So, what kind of AR/M4 rifle do you have and how do you like it?;)

"Uppity"?? Oh?... perhaps you mean the way I flaunt my use of capitalization, punctuation, and attempts at proper sentence structure? If so... I'm guilty.... call me uppity.:D

Matthew Donegan said:
Again i have no issue with what you have and what i dont have..at the start of this post i asked a valid question as to what you may need one for and some of you decided to get all political and may have assumed i am pro-gun control..i'm not.
And i appolagise if i have gotten a wee bit fired up
I love my country as you all love yours and i dont take kindly to people making assumptions based on some articles they may have read or some feedback from somebody they know in Aus.

So shall we start again or is it a case of FU end of story?
Click to expand...

Sure, lets start again... Lets discuss the subject shall we?... I like my Sig 556, how does it compare to your AR?

("The lady doth protest too much, methinks.")
 
Shit sorry Timcsaw..i didnt think a blog forum needed to be grammer perfect..my bad
I see that growing up in different lands really changes perception.
Im really not jealous guys, just facinated by American gun laws
We look at e-mails at work and marvel at those crazy Amercans(no offence), I understand thats not what its all like and media does a piss poor portrayel of America.
We watch guys blazing away with anything from gattling guns to machine guns to rocket launchers(special clubs i assume) and watch the yahooing and rapture from people from young kids to grandparents and we really dont understand it.
We say things like that would be wild to do, but it is more the crazed excitement that we find facinating...its just not our world and apart from maybe going over to America and having a go and as one of you said earlier get a pic to show our mates.
Thats about the extent of our interest.
You all seem nice and maybe i have brought out a little bit of aggression in some of you, as this is subject is very close to your hearts(not the subject the aggression).
Sorry
I,m into knifes and if some wanker started telling me why in their country its ok that their Govt has bought back all knifes, i'd think he was a twit also.
So fair call...i'll call it quits....did make for an interesting post though... lol

Timcsaw....earlier i wanted to say i love that knife you made, but you were pissing me off lol.
 
Matthew Donegan said:
Shit sorry Timcsaw..i didnt think a blog forum needed to be grammer perfect..my bad
I see that growing up in different lands really changes perception.
Im really not jealous guys, just facinated by American gun laws
We look at e-mails at work and marvel at those crazy Amercans(no offence), I understand thats not what its all like and media does a piss poor portrayel of America.
We watch guys blazing away with anything from gattling guns to machine guns to rocket launchers(special clubs i assume) and watch the yahooing and rapture from people from young kids to grandparents and we really dont understand it.
We say things like that would be wild to do, but it is more the crazed excitement that we find facinating...its just not our world and apart from maybe going over to America and having a go and as one of you said earlier get a pic to show our mates.
Thats about the extent of our interest.
You all seem nice and maybe i have brought out a little bit of aggression in some of you, as this is subject is very close to your hearts(not the subject the aggression).
Sorry
I,m into knifes and if some wanker started telling me why in their country its ok that their Govt has bought back all knifes, i'd think he was a twit also.
So fair call...i'll call it quits....did make for an interesting post though... lol

Timcsaw....earlier i wanted to say i love that knife you made, but you were pissing me off lol.
Click to expand...

Water under the bridge my friend :thumbup:(my own reply was a bit "snippy" and I appologise for that.:o)

I think that we are also fascinated by your gun laws... and the same can be said of Canada, Britain etc.. I suppose it all stems from our Constitution (which is unique)... which I find to be one of the greatest documents ever written. Of course we realize that the mindset of those who wrote it, was steeped deeply in the "Rights" and "Freedoms" of Man. They were fighting an oppressive Govt. at the time, and they wanted to ensure that the people of the United States would always have the ability to change their own government if need be. I think they got it right.

From my perspective, I would hope that some day, your government will return your ability to own what you want. But if they do not, your ability to accept that is understandable.

Thank you for the kind words about my latest knife. I'm pleased with how it came out... not up to par with the true artisan makers, but I'm happy with it and I really appreciate your comment about it.

Best mate!:thumbup:
 
STAGE 2 said:
False. Over the last quarter century, violent crime in the US has decreased, not increased.
Click to expand...

Also...

More and more States have been allowing law abiding citizens to carry concealed handguns, and so therefor more people lawfully carrying, over this same period of time.
 
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