Are modern slipjoints too small?

[Squid61]

Glad Texas isn't a nanny state.

HB 1935 became effective September 1, 2017 and made it so that there are no restrictions on the blade length of carry of knives in Texas except for location restrictions on knives with blades over 5-1/2 inches.

Knives with blades over 5-1/2 inches are defined as “location-restricted knives” and are not be able to be carried in establishments that receive more than 51% of their revenue from alcoholic sales, high school, college or professional sporting events, correctional facilities, medical facilities, amusement parks, or places of religious worship. There is an exception for someone using a location-restricted knife in a historical demonstration or ceremony in which the knife is significant to the performance of the ceremony.

HB 1935 also removed Bowie knives, daggers, dirks, stilletos, poniards, swords, and spears from the Texas statute 46.02 Unlawful Carrying Weapons and the definition of an illegal knife.

Great while you're in Texas but if you travel out of state it would be good to know the laws in each state you travel through. I make it a point to do so.

 

[Mitt]

Great while you're in Texas but if you travel out of state it would be good to know the laws in each state you travel through. I make it a point to do so.

I agree. My wife works for an airline so most of our travels prohibit me from carrying. The only state that I drive to is Oklahoma and there is no limit on blade length there either.

For those wondering here is a website that lists knife laws by state.
https://www.akti.org/state-knife-laws/

 

[hsherzfeld]

So, the modern equivalent to the typical frontiersman's knife is probably something like a Case Sodbuster, Buck 110, or a large Opinel (but wihtout the locking ring).

 

[Camillus]

I would say the modern equivalent to the large user pocket knife is a box cutter. I use one around the house whenever I am building or gardening.

 

[22-rimfire]

....To me, this implies that the "whittling knife" of the frontiersman was a very substantial tool, strong and large enough to be able to carve the tough woods suitable for heavy-use objects. And while they were folding knives, I think they were generally carried in belt pouches rather than pockets.

I think the frontiermen were a different breed of knife user. They used their knives for whittling as you mention, but also for self defense and survival in general. They had their long rifles or another black powder rifle and perhaps a side arm. The side arm would be specifically for self defense as would a big knife. Even today, when many consider a survival knife, tactical implications come to bare as well as a knife big enough for many tasks. My guess is that there was a smaller whittling knife on their person.

What it boils down to is that nothing has really changed other than real self defense concerns.

Why carry a tomahawk? Self defense primarily and modest hatchet types of cutting.....

 

[Ernie1980]

I have a large collection of vintage folders, and they vary a lot in size. In fact, I would say smaller ones were quite common back in the day. I think that there are less large slipjoints now because of the amount of modern large folders.

 

[rishma]

To your original question, no they are not too small for my modern life; however, as noted I think the less rural nature of most peoples live these days means a smaller bade is not just sufficient but an advantage for most chores. I admire larger folders, carry them when being outdoorsy but my daily life is just not suited for large slipjoints.

Count me as nostalgic for simpler times.

 

[Old Hunter]

To your original question, no they are not too small for my modern life; however, as noted I think the less rural nature of most peoples live these days means a smaller bade is not just sufficient but an advantage for most chores. I admire larger folders, carry them when being outdoorsy but my daily life is just not suited for large slipjoints.

Count me as nostalgic for simpler times.

My own needs and uses for a pocketknife parallel yours. I carry a medium stockman or medium jackknife nearly everyday in my life as a building materials sales rep. Even in my life as a Soldier I carried the same. The exceptIon today is when I hunt, fish, or spend time in the woods - then its a Buck 110 or fixed blade appropriate to the task at hand. As a Soldier, only in the field did I carry a “field knife” or a bayonet. OH

 

[Will Power]

I have a large collection of vintage folders, and they vary a lot in size. In fact, I would say smaller ones were quite common back in the day. I think that there are less large slipjoints now because of the amount of modern large folders.

This seems reasonable and likely. Looking at old catalogues shows a pretty broad spectrum of knife sizes I think. Yes, Moderns are big and nearly all lock, a large spring knife can be viewed as impractical.

This thread does raise very interesting questions though, some have argued that bigger knives have survived because they were perhaps used less, smaller knives tend to get lost more easily too, so the picture might be distorted. Another aspect worth considering is a change in dress styles, formerly, clothes were much heavier and to an extent more formal. Heavy weight trousers, jackets, top-coats, waistcoats (I think you say vests...) all lend themselves to carrying a bigger or heavier knife. Work clothes such as overalls, dungarees, long coats people used to wear in shops or in factories have changed or vanished. Today's lightweight synthetic clothing is warmer but it's not so easy to stow heavier stuff and pockets seem less and smaller.

Previously, larger patterns may have been viewed as more prestigious or costly- Sportsman's knife- so a kind of conspicuous item to show off. Then it may have been considered more 'virile' to carry a big knife Those fearing being dubbed effeminate But certainly some smaller knives were marketed as children's knives or for Ladies so the connexion between size & seriousness of use might have existed.

I like the look of many big knives but I seldom like carrying them as I hate heavy bulky knives in the pocket (unless heavier winter coat) Nor do I find a 4.25" any better for cutting stuff than a 3 3/8" one. If it's a heavy cutting task, I want a fixed or at least a lock blade.

 

[the-accumulator]

They had their long rifles or another black powder rifle and perhaps a side arm.

I'm not sure why, I can only guess, but most of my oldest folders are quite small. In the days of black powder weapons, a fairly large knife was necessary for self-defense, because reloading your gun was timetime-consuming. But, in those days, a small, quick-draw fixed blade was also handy to have for cutting patches while reloading. You could certainly whittle with a patch knife.
Maybe my small early nineteenth century knives belonged to city dwellers. Many of my oldest pieces are quill knives, and the rest would fit comfortably in a vest pocket. For those folks, their largest knives were probably in the kitchen.
Food for thought. T-A

 

[hsherzfeld]

I think the answer is "it depends". It depends on the time period, it depends on the geographical area, it depends on the job at hand, etc. I'm sure that if you examined the pocket contents of bankers, politicians, businessmen, steamboat pilots, etc. in mid-nineteenth century, you would find lots of small pen knives with mother-of-pearl scales. If you examined the pockets of all the boys, shopkeepers, and loafers along the Mississippi River in the same time period, you would find lots of "sure-enough Barlow" knives. You would probably find lots of cowboys and ranchers carrying stockman knives, trappers carrying trapper knives, and farmers carrying sodbusters.

 

[22-rimfire]

I think the answer is "it depends". It depends on the time period, it depends on the geographical area, it depends on the job at hand, etc.

Like I said, nothing has really changed other than a larger knife (probably a fixed blade) might be carried for self defense in the frontier and some rigorous cutting tasks. No chain saws.... axes ruled. It all depends and I think there was a wide variety of knives available just like today.

If you were headed to the frontier, would you take an itty bitty folder or something a bit larger if your life might depend on it? Same as today.

 

[Ray5118]

I think the answer is "it depends". It depends on the time period, it depends on the geographical area, it depends on the job at hand, etc. I'm sure that if you examined the pocket contents of bankers, politicians, businessmen, steamboat pilots, etc. in mid-nineteenth century, you would find lots of small pen knives with mother-of-pearl scales. If you examined the pockets of all the boys, shopkeepers, and loafers along the Mississippi River in the same time period, you would find lots of "sure-enough Barlow" knives. You would probably find lots of cowboys and ranchers carrying stockman knives, trappers carrying trapper knives, and farmers carrying sodbusters.

That is likely the answer. " It depends."
I seem to recall a cargo of pocket knives were recovered from a Mississippi riverboat that sunk in the mid 19th century.
There was a photo of the recovered knives after some cleaning.
I think I remember a number of single blade Barlow type knives shown , but it was a while back, so I might be totally senior moment wrong.
Someone will find that photo I just know it.

 

[not2sharp]

I have a large collection of vintage folders, and they vary a lot in size. In fact, I would say smaller ones were quite common back in the day. I think that there are less large slipjoints now because of the amount of modern large folders.

A lot of those larger 19th century knives had locking mechanisms as well. Their outward appearance may have been similar to the slip joints of the day, but they were more like our modern tactical folders.

n2s

 

[jackknife]

That is likely the answer. " It depends."
I seem to recall a cargo of pocket knives were recovered from a Mississippi riverboat that sunk in the mid 19th century.
There was a photo of the recovered knives after some cleaning.
I think I remember a number of single blade Barlow type knives shown , but it was a while back, so I might be totally senior moment wrong.
Someone will find that photo I just know it.

No, you're not having a senior moment. That photo was from the treasure trove of artifacts from the excavated wreck of the steamboat Arabia, found under a farm field because the river changed its course over time and a flood or two. Google it and see the stuff they recovered, absolutey amazing! The Arabia was loaded with trade good being shipped west, and had 200 tons of cargo on board.

The knives recovered were great examples of what people were actually carrying in the 1840's and 50's. Lots of medium to large single blade wharncliffe's, some small pen knives, but most seem to be of the Barlow size and slightly larger. Since that part of the U.S. in the 1840's was very rural, I would guess the knives were bound for farming settlements.

 

[dantzk8]

That is likely the answer. " It depends."
I seem to recall a cargo of pocket knives were recovered from a Mississippi riverboat that sunk in the mid 19th century.
There was a photo of the recovered knives after some cleaning.
I think I remember a number of single blade Barlow type knives shown , but it was a while back, so I might be totally senior moment wrong.Someone will find that photo I just know it.

Maybe this one. Some Barlows, swaybacks and congress. None of them seems longer than the ones produced today. Why would they be? Fixed blades and axes were probably less expensive than clasp knives and more suitable to many rural tasks.

Dan.

 

[Ron Sabbagh]

Nine inches open.

Also, I’m loving this thread so far!

you might want to check out the Case Bose Collaboration Yukon folder. 5 1/4" closed. 9 1/8" open

View attachment 1418144

If you have the money, custom maker Gene Shadley has a few models that are 5.75" closed, like this Dublin Whittler
View attachment 1418145

 

[jackknife]

Maybe this one. Some Barlows, swaybacks and congress. None of them seems longer than the ones produced today. Why would they be? Fixed blades and axes were probably less expensive than clasp knives and more suitable to many rural tasks.

Dan.

Yup, thats one of the photos on the Arabia museum website. I've spent a lot of time there and to me its strange considering where the knives were going. The Missouri River goes up through what was then, then frontier farming communities of Nebraska and South Dakota. That was out there on the edge of civilization in those days.

I'm partly surprised at the lack of the large Bowie knives and such, but a really good showing of medium size Wharnies. With the exception of a few congress patterns, the main knife of the frontier farmers/ranchers seem to be the medium single blade slip joint. I guess since it handles like 98% of cutting, they just used a hatchet/ax for the heavier stuff.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[cbach8tw]

A recent arrival of a Maher & Grosh (one of the "replica" from a couple years back) and a original Flylock (pre-1928) sitting together on my desk got me to wondering. Are the knives we see as "traditional" actually smaller than the commonly used pocket knives of 100-150 years ago? Both of those examples dwarf a Queen Stockman pattern and everything else within arms reach, and by extension most of what I have stashed elsewhere.

Is the reason it's so hard to come by the larger folders because that's what was primarily carried and used? Are the guys running around with the "large" modern patterns really using blades closer to what our forefathers used for their daily chores? (Blasphemy, I know...) Would Hemingway prefer that 4" bladed Spyderco to Case's Peanut? Would General Sherman carry Pro-Tech?

Or in another direction; does the common convention for carrying a knife trend to smaller blades as society becomes less rural? Certainly the daily use and fashion have influenced knife styles; that's a given. But is the current traditional really representative of what you'd find in the pocket of "Joe Average" circa 1870?

I think you hit it right, that the modern need of a large slipjoint has faded because the tasks at hand have changed, therefore a smaller slipjoint meets the different needs of today. The change from rural to more of a suburban culture has changed from 100 years ago. There are still rural areas where a larger slipjoint has it place, farm and hunting, but the majority of Americans are not growing up on a farm or in the country. Back then, it was expected that most boys would have a pocket knife on them. I do like a smaller slipjoint, but I also like a good sized traditional folder that has a little heft to it.

 

[cbach8tw]

I like my AG Russell Cowboy, and the larger Gunstock folder, and I have a Buck 112. So I have a twist on this question for those of us who still like a larger folder, can we still have the larger folder desire but get it in modern materials that will make it lighter and stronger, but keep the larger size? For example, the Buck Slim Pro series? I really like the Slim Pro 110 and 112.