Are modern slipjoints too small?

[Will Power]

There's truth in that @Danke42 Small knives demand precision, they also demand design ingenuity otherwise they become toy-like. I find many of GEC's small knives to be unsatisfactory due to the toy level. 06, 14, 18, 22. Whereas CASE carry off small knives better- Peanut, Penknife and notably, Swayback.

Here a CASE Peanut with a G.David 8cm Laguiole. The Peanut is no toy but I've never really taken to it as I don't much like Jack knives with 2 blades same end, find the Pen blade on it irrelevant and prefer their Penknife, but it's very credible for many. Most Lags are traditionally large knives 11-14 cm but even they've come down in size, the 8cm would've been considered a child's knife or Ladies' knife but look at the blade, plenty with regard to the handle- not for those with giant hands no but a useful and credible cutter.

Concerning smaller knives and precision construction, this can be seen in multi-blade knives in particular. Long before SAK dominated the precision construction multi-blade, cutlers were trying their skills and art. You can find many small Gents knives from Sheffield, Solingen and the American cutlers that boast great intricacy in a small frame. And they were likely expensive. Here, my oldest knife a J.Nowill from Sheffield , Senator type or Equal End, prob Ivory, a poor photo but you'll get the idea. Absolutely sunk joints on 4 blades, cut-outs, 3 blades (2 broken off) 1 nail file, still great W&T on the survivors. This is either 1890s or very early c20th, size 3.25"/8cm.

Modern Traditionals are not too small for me, nor were they long ago The inherent strength of Traditional pocket-knives is their immense range & diversity of patterns and sizes, something Moderns often lack-they're usually single blade and variations on a theme, plus they tend to be big

 

[jackknife]

That doesn't make the tool the villain, it is a reflection on the society and the media's villaization of the 110, the same can be said for the Buck 119, it is routinely used as a press stand in for almost any knife crime, because...it looks sinister to uninformed folks.. yet both of these knives have been used by hunters and tradesman for decades with and those folks swear by them. Good to see you still at your taking a swing at Bucks iconic products at any turn available though, some things never change...

No, its just a tool, like a gun. Its the stupidity of the human race in general. The press and Hollywood has demonized both the knife and gun as evil objects and the general population of idiots at large eat it up. Thats life. If there were no knives, they'd probably pick at ball peen hammers or screw drivers longer than one inch.

The Buck 110 has a shaded history, thats a fact and if you don't like that, then you need to come to terms with it. Its been a choice of murder weapon because it has been so popular. Just like Glock pistols and Colt AR15 rifles. The liberal press makes good use of the image for a reason, they are very recognizable. The fact that you can do a massive amount of damage with a short barrel 12 gauge and buckshot or a cheap machete has so far escaped the illogic of the press.

As for me swinging at Buck knives, what the heck are you talking abut? I carry and have carried a Buck 102 woodsman since 1969, and carried a Buck 301 stockman for 25 years. I have great respect and love of Buck knifes. Don't go putting words in my mouth. I'm just not fond of an over weight single blade knife with enough brass in the handle to make two large paper weights.

 

[sitflyer]

No, its just a tool, like a gun. Its the stupidity of the human race in general. The press and Hollywood has demonized both the knife and gun as evil objects and the general population of idiots at large eat it up. Thats life. If there were no knives, they'd probably pick at ball peen hammers or screw drivers longer than one inch.

The Buck 110 has a shaded history, thats a fact and if you don't like that, then you need to come to terms with it. Its been a choice of murder weapon because it has been so popular. Just like Glock pistols and Colt AR15 rifles. The liberal press makes good use of the image for a reason, they are very recognizable. The fact that you can do a massive amount of damage with a short barrel 12 gauge and buckshot or a cheap machete has so far escaped the illogic of the press.

As for me swinging at Buck knives, what the heck are you talking abut? I carry and have carried a Buck 102 woodsman since 1969, and carried a Buck 301 stockman for 25 years. I have great respect and love of Buck knifes. Don't go putting words in my mouth. I'm just not fond of an over weight single blade knife with enough brass in the handle to make two large paper weights.

I guess that was out of line Carl, I apologize for that.

 

[Ron Sabbagh]

From my perspective, several things have changed the culture of traditional knives

1. The birth of "tactical"

Most tactical knives fall into the 3.5 - 4" or larger handle length category. With the advent of "tactical" knives from the late 80's to today....those who wanted a larger knife simply bought a tactical with stronger locking mechanisms than your larger traditional knives.

2. Travel

with the birth of airplane and other mass travel, our culture became less tolerant of large knives, but allowed smaller "personal" knives.

3. 9/11

everything changed after 9/11. Our culture pretty much viewed most knives and guns as "weapons" rather than tools. I mean, you can't even take a nail clipper on a plane with you

For the most part, I think traditionals are now considered "personal" knives and thus can be made smaller for the task. If I needed a large knife for work, chances are I'd grab a larger "tactical" type knife (sebenza) and I think this is where we find a happy medium between smaller traditionals and larger "tacticals"

 

[JohnDF]

If I needed a large knife for work, chances are I'd grab a larger "tactical" type knife (sebenza) and I think this is where we find a happy medium between smaller traditionals and larger "tacticals"

I think you're right on with this observation.
I know we aren't supposed to talk about modern knives, but I think it's relevant to the conversation here.
If someone needs a larger knife that locks for "bigger jobs", the modern knife has many advantages over the big traditionals.
The biggest advantage is the pocket clip, which makes such a large knife so much easier to carry. Sorry if that upsets anybody.

 

[joeradza]

I’ve tended to carry knives larger than I need the majority of the time. I chalk that up to the “what if” syndrome. I’ve had one of these on my desk for 30 plus years and it’s always done what I need except for food so as an experiment I’m going to carry it for a while. I know it will do what I need but as a knife knut it won’t last for long.

 

[GaiusJulius]

Another relevant point: in 1800 a large knife would likely also double as an eating utensil/kitchen prep tool on a regular basis. Maybe it was usually a fixed blade but doubtless there were some folders employed.

As industrialization made silverware affordable (and able to be plated rather than solid silver ($$$) in the 1850s, many folks had the eating situation covered with dedicated tableware no matter how humble their circumstances.

Upshot is, although some of us occasionally use a pocketknife while eating, we probably do so more because we like them than because we have to. If we bothered to get up, there’s likely no shortage of steak knives, dinner knives, butter knives, maybe even cheese and fruit knives in the drawer. To say nothing of the proper cooking knives.

If you know your clients won’t be eating with their knives you’ll likely make them smaller and handier. A box cutter or xacto knife is very common these days for general cutting. Their blades are maybe 1” but they generally get the job done fine.

 

[mnblade]

As to both the shrinking of commonly carried pocketknives and the decrease in folks carrying any pocketknife at all, I blame fear. Some of this is the result of fewer and fewer people serving in the armed forces, some is the result of fewer people hunting, and some is the result of TV-fueled hysteria. The first two mean people in general are less exposed to "weapons," and thus less comfortable around them. And the TV hysteria .... well, that really needs no explanation.

I was born in 1968. Every kid I grew up with had a grandfather who'd served in uniform, and most had dads with a military background. My dad quit hunting long before I was born, but there was a dusty shotgun in the house. And from the time I was old enough, I always had knives around. They were used in scouting, while fishing, just carving on a stick in a vacant lot, cutting up the oranges we kids would nick from neighbors' trees, etc. No one cared. If we cut ourselves, Mom would rinse in off, and put on a Band Aid. We also all had BB guns and generally the sum total of our safety lesson was something like, "don't shoot a kid or a window." We played barefoot, swam in the river, drank from the hose, and were welcome to use our dad's tools to fix our bikes or fishing gear or skateboards ("Just put 'em away when you're done" ..... then he'd be back to reading the newspaper).

Some time around the late '70s, soccer started getting touted in my area as a "safe" alternative to football and baseball. Now soccer's a fine sport ...... but I remember, even as a kid, thinking there must be something wrong with it, if it's being pushed on us kids as safe. Football involved smashing into guys, and baseball involved occaisionally getting plunked, or twisting an ankle trying to bowl over the catcher ala Pete Rose). Next came bike helmets. Hell, we didn't even cycle around the neighborhood in SHOES! Eventually businesses found a ready market (moms mostly, but some dads too) for safety. They'd buy Junior a helmet, a backpack covered in reflective material, pads for bike frames, trips to indoor-play centers, knee pads for roller-skaters, blunt scissors, and supervised after-school activities.

Thankfully, my group of buddies and I gravitated to playing in the street, shooting bottles at the dump with our BB guns, spearing mullet and pulling up blue crabs with a handline, carrying knives and sneaking off to the woods to light a campfire, chew tobacco, discuss whose dad had a subscription to Playboy, and cuss. We carried big knives (I had a Schrade LB7, my buddy John had a stilletto-looking POS made by Valor, PJ had a Buck 110, Josh had an Air Force "survival knife," and Greg had a Camillus lockblade). We got cut, burned and banged up. I can't tell you how glad I am to this day, that no one ever tried to save us from ourselves.

-- Mark

 

[Old Hunter]

mnblade nice summation of what has happened to us as a country! Sure glad we had knives, BB guns, bikes, compasses, beer, cigarettes, the woods, the farm, etc., to experiment with and figure the world out. OH

 

[b2edhmep]

There are folding knives and then there are pocket knives. Most of the pants back then ,18th 19th century, didn't have pockets. Coats and vests had pockets, some very large pockets. Even what they considered a pocket pistol is large to today's standard. As the task of EDC knives changed over the years so did their size. As clothing ( Levis with pockets) changed so did the size of the pocket knife. Most large folders of today (folding hunters) are carried in a belt sheath.

 

[not2sharp]

The more things change....



From top to bottom:

Miller Bros T1
Singleton/Sheffield military knife from the 1880's
Camillus made Remington stockman (my current EDC for over 20 years)

n2s

 

[rpstrimple]

I rarely carry traditional folders over 4" closed length. Anything more I reach for a fixed blade.

 

[Eric J]

The reason kids can't carry knives into schools is that they will use them on each other and on teachers/staff. I've taught in schools where pencils are even a concern. Some of my students had already seen the inside of a "detention" center for violence. I have had students who have arrested for robbery, rape, and selling dope. Last year I was assaulted by a student I didn't even know. The sky opened up and he was expelled out of district for good. In California! Wow! I teach 6th grade.

 

[cudgee]

The reason kids can't carry knives into schools is that they will use them on each other and on teachers/staff. I've taught in schools where pencils are even a concern. Some of my students had already seen the inside of a "detention" center for violence. I have had students who have arrested for robbery, rape, and selling dope. Last year I was assaulted by a student I didn't even know. The sky opened up and he was expelled out of district for good. In California! Wow! I teach 6th grade.

Getting way off topic i know, but that is just " Sad ".

 

[Eric J]

Smaller knives are far less burdensome as we all know. I "graduated" to smaller knives a few years ago and rarely go back. I like knives between the Case Peanut and a 4-layer SAK. Sometimes a small single blade is great too. When you look at how much blade length you actually use it makes sense. There is still a place in the world for all things traditional. Give me a single-shot bolt action .22, a revolver, and a small slip joint and I can have plenty of fun. I like to pretend I'm Robert Ruark's neighbor.

 

[Old Hunter]

Uh oh, I see we are back to the automatic double post - too many words. I will post an appropriate picture in place of my verbiage. The type of fish the Boy would have caught while fishing with the Old Man (and the right kind of knife to clean them). OH

 

[Will Power]

Great fish! I could eat one now and you're right, the correct knife for the task

 

[Peregrin]

No politics, no modern knives. If you have questions, read the guidelines. Thanks.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I can't tell you how glad I am to this day, that no one ever tried to save us from ourselves.

Amen!

Regarding knife size, I saw a Tony Bose video this past weekend. He talked about how much he likes and carries a Wharncliffe trapper and finds it to be a good size because "it don't feel like a potato in your pocket."

I suppose clothing fashion and styles may have influenced preferred knife size also. Someone mentioned pants not having pockets at all at one time, but coats and jackets did have large pockets. Think about the baggy, shapeless, pleated trousers of days gone by -- you could hide anything in those pockets. Then clothes became slimmer and more form-fitting and jeans snugger so we wanted smaller knives. Today about all I wear are cargo pants so larger knives are again easier to carry. Cargo pockets make it easier and more comfortable to carry something the size of a Buck 112LT or a Case Tribal Lock in a pocket without resorting to belt carry.

 

[jackknife]

Uh oh, I see we are back to the automatic double post - too many words. I will post an appropriate picture in place of my verbiage. The type of fish the Boy would have caught while fishing with the Old Man (and the right kind of knife to clean them). OH

I've got a friend named Howard that could have been the old man's brother. Howard carries a little watch pocket size "penknife" as he calls it. A teeny Victorinox classic. Howard is a old Texas oil field roughneck, and we talked pocket knives over lunch. He carries a tiny coin pocket knife because as he puts it, "If I go huntin, I carry a huntin knife. If I go fishin, I carry a fishin knife."

I remember when that mode of thinking was common. The pocket knife was not an all purpose EDC/survival/huntin/combat knife. It was a pocket knife, a small personal cutting tool for string, sharpening pencils, opening mail and such.