Are we our own worst enemy?

Hi P,

You understand my confusion. Aren't you supposed to be rewarded for hard work. Going beyond just what is "expected" of you.

Both my parents and those at my only "real" job (US Army Infantry) made it very clear that average would not be tolerated.

WWG
 
Anything you do takes some homework to do well. The custom knife world is rather easier to research than some other universes, as long as you know your limits. Like Tom, I've had experiences where I decided to leave the hobby because I felt too many other people had an adge over me. Those included Japanese swords, and no motto US gold coins (or US gold coins generally). This is a small enough world that one can hope to understand it easily enough.

With this said, the most important thing is: is homework fun? I love reading about knives, browsing the pictures of Coop and others, checking the dealers' sites, etc. I do it whether I'm in the market for something or not. The reason why I dropped the gold coin and Jpz sword thing is that I found I didn't enjoy the research that much.
 
WWG, Ed might just enjoy making knives so much that he will keep on doing it regardless.

I know I would.

Does that mean our knives are of lower quality? Quite the opposite I would say!
Does that mean they are worth less,....I don`t think so.

A knife made for the absolute love of it, for the love of developing your skills and for the quest of coming closer and closer to perfection will allways be a great knife I think.

Now, collectors should absolutely do their homework!
The money spent should of course go toward knives of high quality in all regards.
Since I believe that is what makes the knives keep, or even increase their value.

As a knifemaker, striving to make as much money as possible on as many knives as possible has its downsides I think.
The joy of making knives will soon decrease or even be lost.
Knives will start to look more and more alike, loosing their uniqueness.
Misstakes often occur when time(and money) is putting preassure on you.

My two cents worth, please correct me if I am wrong...

Regards
/Magnus
 
Hi Magnus,

You are wrong.

I never said makers should make as many knives and as much money as they can.

I asked how long would he continue to advertise and travel to shows, and other expensive endeavors if there was no money coming in.

Having judged at more shows than I can remember, I can tell you that most knives are different, even if at a distance they appear to be the same. So the uniqueness is there.

Tactical folders may be the exception to that.

Mistakes are made on every knife. Whether there is pressure or not. Fortunately for knife makers most collectors can't detect these flaws.

So while the desire may always be there, for most (except perhaps for the independently wealthy), expenses will become an issue.

Being able to incorporate a business strategy into your knife making to make it profitable. Does not take away from your unique artists approach. On the contrary it allows you expand your knowledge and skills. Taking your craft to even a higher level.

WWG
 
Hi Tom,

Question for the artist!

How do you feel about a knife maker who sells his design to a "PRODUCTION" Company....who will make thousands of he same knife....all looking the same.

For mere money and perhaps a little extra marketing.

Is that former "artist" a smart businessman or just someone who has prostituted themselves and their "art" for mere monetary gain?

Can you still be an artist when your work is now nothing more than a commodity (use any definition you want) :D. That is bought and sold for the lowest dollar that someone will accept. Knowing full well that no one will pay the full MSRP. Even worse knowing most will be sold at "Wholesale".

Then again,
there were a bunch of guys with the product and the insight, and they used it to make incredible profit.
Click to expand...

As my Grandmother used to tell me "Don't point a finger at anyone as you will only have 3 pointing back at you."

WWG
One who appreciated the art and craftsmanship so much....he has spent 23 years learning all he can about it. :)
 
Hi Joss,

You quit with swords and coins because you didn't want to put the time into to gain the knowledge you thought you needed.

Turns out that was a good thing. Now you can devote your time and capital to custom knives. Something you really enjoy. Soon you will be the person who is the Don Fogg expert and people will say they didn't start collecting Don Fogg's because
I decided to leave the hobby because I felt too many other people had an adge over me.
Click to expand...
That person that cause them to "quit" will be you.

Excellent book called "The Dip" by Seth Godin. It explains that it is ok to "quit". As this allows you to pursue something that you are really really passionate about.

I really liked the Army, but when it was becoming something I no longer cared for, I quit. My last day was the first day of becoming a Custom Knife Entrepreneur!

While friends and family thought I was nuts (benefits, retirement, etc.) it turned out to be one of the smartest decision I ever made. It is something that I love to do "homework" for!

WWG
 
Ed Caffrey said:
I think that a lot of "new" collectors become confused and somewhat frightened after reading all the values, investment, profit, and resale type threads. It often gives the impression to many that you must be fully versed prior to making ANY purchase(s), and I believe it actually scares some of them. What needs to be stressed is the fact that both Making and collecting boil down to the fact that its fun. If I never sold another knife I would still be making them. If you get wrapped around the axle about the money, profit, or resale, then I think your missing the whole point. If you like it, make it/buy it. If you don't, then don't let someone else's opinion prevent you from doing so. There will always be the "tiers" of both collectors and makers. And there is room for all of them within our community.
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Hi Ed.
I collector custom knives because I'm crazy about them and agree it needs to be fun. However IMO, for us all to continue enjoying them and for makers to be able to continue making them we can't ignore the value, investment, profit and resale side of it.

For example, a major dilemma facing new collectors IMO is that they get interested in customs after dabbling in factory knives and instead of being patient and learning about value, different styles, difference makers and resale they immediately start buying anything and everything they can afford on impulse.
Unfortunately, by the time they familiarize themselves with the above and realize what knives they want to collect their money is all tied up in knives they can't sell.
Many get frustrated and end up dumping their knives on the market for a fraction of what they paid and move on to something else.

I believe the new collector benefits form these discussions we have here. In other words an ally to the new collector not our own worst enemy.
 
The only danger I see for custom knives is there is almost no knowledge of it, other than by collectors. People who use knives, the masses are increasingly meeting production knives that offer "custom" lines. Mom and pop will go out of business more often, because Walmart moves in.
david
 
wehavemettheenemy.jpg
 
I consider myself on 'the fringe' of the custom knife community.
I enjoy the learning and looking.
Mainly the learning.
(I also think that anyone that collects knives should try putting a handle on a store bought blade...it'll really open your eyes to what it takes for good F&F...and that's without making a blade...I'll be a knifemaker....some day :D )

The forums are a wealth of knowlege for those that want to learn.
I don't think 'we' are our worst enemy at all.
One must be willing to wade through all the opinions, weighing each against each other as you get to know the people who are behind said opinions.
Be willing to do the leg work and research.
I came to bf looking for one good bowie...and stayed.
If one comes reads for a week, never looks at the archives and drops some money...there's a very good chance that they'll end up with the flavor of the month.
Trends, makers, styles come and go. Some are consistant.

Now, I've never sold a knife so my perspective is different than you 'wheeler dealer' & 'investment' guys.

There was no intimidation factor for me.
I was comfortable knowing that I had homework to do.
I read all the archives (granted, they were smaller then) before I made a post.
I was overwhelmed at my first show here in NYC.
At the second show, our own PhilL took pity on me. He took me around and introduced me to alot of knife makers and a bunch of knifeknuts.
Thank you PhilL, that made all the difference in the world.
I feel fortunate that I had Les go over a knife for me.
The knife and what he thought of it aren't important to this discussion.
The lessons learned were priceless.
He looked at the knife for a good while. From angles that hadn't entered my mind. As he was doing that he explained why & what he was looking for.
Every newbie should be so lucky.

And don't think that I'm kissing up to Les, I've bought exactly 1 $200 hunter from him and he prolly doesn't even remember that.


I treat myself to a knife now and then, but not on the financial level of the big guns here.
That's by choice. Right now I'd rather have 4- 2 or 3 hundred dollar knives that I'd use rather than a thousand dollar knife that I wouldn't. (I know I could but I wouldn't...its me :D )

I've often said that the search is half the fun.
 
You asked for the "gang" to pipe down, and let others answer, so I will, until the furor dies down, but I think that it is a good question. I will say, short version,is;

no, we are not.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hi Ebbtide,

It was a Geno Denning Hunter.

Thank you for your compliment and you are quite welcome.

Early on I had Paul Bausch take pity on this newbie collector. I too thought it was a great service. I told myself if I ever found myself in a position similar to what Paul was I too would try to pass on as much knowledge as I could.

One of the great things about custom knives is that for the most part everyone is happy to share their experience and give advice to those asking for it.

Next to selling knives at a show:D My favorite thing is to talk custom knives.

Im with STeven, we are not our worst enemy...far from it.

WWG
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Magnus,

You are wrong.

I never said makers should make as many knives and as much money as they can.

I asked how long would he continue to advertise and travel to shows, and other expensive endeavors if there was no money coming in.
If that is an absolut nessesity then I guess for as long one finds it to be fun and can afford it useing "other money".
I know many "highend" knifemakers who don`t advertise and who don`t travel much and still sell all knives they make.

Having judged at more shows than I can remember, I can tell you that most knives are different, even if at a distance they appear to be the same. So the uniqueness is there.
Of course, who can make exact replicas and what wood looks exactly the same. But stylewise some knives are frighteningly similar.

Tactical folders may be the exception to that.

Mistakes are made on every knife. Whether there is pressure or not. Fortunately for knife makers most collectors can't detect these flaws.
Misstakes are, as you say, made on all knives. But I know there are "situations" that without a doubt increase the chance of that happening. Fotunately for the collectors some knifemakers know this.

So while the desire may always be there, for most (except perhaps for the independently wealthy), expenses will become an issue.
Depends on what level you want to be making knives at, doesn`t it?!?
I can see why you would want(need) to make a profit on all knives you buy as a collector. But as a knifemaker I don`t!
It is a fact that I and many others would keep making knives even if we had to take money from our normal income!
For example, if I enjoy riding my bicycle, but could not make money from it, would that mean I would have to stop riding it?!?

Being able to incorporate a business strategy into your knife making to make it profitable. Does not take away from your unique artists approach. On the contrary it allows you expand your knowledge and skills. Taking your craft to even a higher level.
Money is not at all the only inspiration in the world my friend!!! Far from it!
It can bring you down just as easily. I certainly am glad I am not depending on it anyway!

WWG
Click to expand...

Well I guess I stand corrected...


You don`t leave much room for individual thoughts or opinions do you?


Just please do remember that I never said "we are our worst enemy".


Best Regards
/Magnus
 
I suppose if a new collector tries to take in all the information that is being disseminated on this forum at once, that could be daunting. What worked for me was to take in information gradually. In the beginning, I avoided the investment part of collecting until I had the rest of the stuff learned to a great extent. I'm sure there is still much for me to learn about knives and knifemakers, but I know enough now to make good decisions. Part of learning about knives and makers is that once you know enough to make good decisions, you are also purchasing knives that will at least hold their value.

The investment part of collecting is an area that I am still not that concerned about. I don't continuously turn my collection, though for some collectors, that is the part of the hobby that they enjoy the most. It has not become overly important to me, but I have learned enough about it to help me make good decisions on knives that if I had to sell them, would hold their value.

To me, there is no way that there can be so much information that it is detrimental to new collectors. New collectors just have to learn how to take in the information at a pace that they are comfortable with. Don't try to learn it all at once. Make it a continuous process. In my opinion, that adds to the enjoyment of collecting.
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Magnus,



Mistakes are made on every knife. Whether there is pressure or not. Fortunately for knife makers most collectors can't detect these flaws.



WWG
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Oh, shizzle..........so does this mean that I will NEVER be totally comfortable with my knives?:confused:
 
jdm61 said:
Oh, shizzle..........so does this mean that I will NEVER be totally comfortable with my knives?:confused:
Click to expand...

My short general answer: no.

I and other makers with me never consider a deal done until the customer say so after having looked at the knife closely "in hand".

Regards
/Magnus
 
HI Magnus,

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion.

My point was, most people who have been receiving money for their knives would have difficulty justifying the continuation of spending money...if no money was coming in.

You have probably figured out the majority of my posts have to do with making a profit.

Generally makers, like most business's have to realize a profit in order to continue doing what they want to do.

In the US the Small Business Association says statically that 75% of all small business's will fail in the first 3-5 years. As well this is why the Internal Revenue Service here in the US allows small business's to post a loss for the first 3 years without any "Bells" going off.

If you look at the Knife Annuals and seperate them by 5 years you will notice about a 20% change in makers that are listed in there. Some are new and some are gone. Now, all of these makers did not die. So what happened.

Generally it is what we refer to as "Negative Cash Flow." This in the business community usually leads to a business going out of business.

You should make knives how you want, charge whatever you want and pay no attention to what I say. Your business/hobby is yours. Whether it is successful or a failure is completely up to you.

WWG
 
Mangler,

As Don said, you should be happy with your knives...but understand that there is still room for improvement.

One of the best experiences a collector can have is to be asked to judge a custom knife competition.

It is a real eye opener.

I judged at the Blade Show in 2006. Entered into the "Best Folder" competition was a folder that had been sold for $45,000.00 (due in large part to the amount of diamonds on the knife). Not only did that knife not win, it didn't finish in the top 5.

The comment from one of the judges was "You'd think for that kind of money the blade wouldn't move up and down in the locked position."

I had to agree with him.

WWG
 
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