Are we ruining the secondary market?

As far as I am concerned, it is the collecting that is fun. I will collect for whatever reason and in whatever way makes me happy. I will not collect as per someone else's mandate. If making money when reselling your knives is important to you, go for it, but don't try to put a guilt trip on those that don't find it to be important.
 
Tai Goo said:
I'm multifaceted,... and a "borderline" mathematical genius! :D

HEY! .... Enough about me, let's heAR WHAT YOU GUYS THINK...
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However, If there are any collectors and or investors who want to send me their money to buy them knives with,… and pay me a healthy "finders fee" for recognizing all the things I recognize,... I'd be gad to offer my services... :D

Just tell me what you want,... and I'll find it for you. :)

Bojingo! :D
 
Keith Montgomery said:
As far as I am concerned, it is the collecting that is fun. I will collect for whatever reason and in whatever way makes me happy. I will not collect as per someone else's mandate. If making money when reselling your knives is important to you, go for it, but don't try to put a guilt trip on those that don't find it to be important.
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In a collector's world, no matter what is being collected, there will always be collectors who collect entirely for the pure enjoyment of that which is collected. Otherwise, there would be no collecting. What makes collecting even more fascinating and fun is the total sum of what is out there to be found, seen, loved and collected.

But if not for those with a profit motive, there would be less out there for the average collector to conveniently find, see, love and purchase. AND if it were not for pure collectors who have no profit motive, then guys like me who like to collect AND profit wouldn't exist because we wouldn't find knives to "buy right".

So it takes us all to make a market that is sustainable. Thanks for not carrying about the profit motive because it makes it even "funner" for ME.
 
i consider myself to be a collector of using knives. i am some kind of a very small black hole in the market that sucks up half a dozen custom knives a year to reduce their value of several thousand dollars to almost zero within minutes. that is like drinking a bottle of '82 château cinq-cygne, like smoking a don jaime de lugo nr. 3, like a month in the shade of palm trees on the tuvalunga atoll: it costs a lot and there is no material ROI.

but it feels good and you never have to worry about the money you spent, because it's gone irretrievably. no market analysis, no excel spreadsheet, but fit, finish, balance, flow and performance (and a cleared backyard garden or a sliced tomato). there is an andrews camp knife being built that has my name on it and a high performance prensentation enep... that'll be fun!

do i ruin the secondary market? dang, i couldn't care less.

i wish there were more threads about knives instead of investments and markets. it's become somewhat boring lately.

best regards,
hans
 
Peter,

I am surprised that you see the $$$ concern as being orthogonal to a pure collector's point of view. Take 2 examples:

1 - Most collectors change their taste over time. Doesn't it make sense then to pay attention to the potential resale value of the knives one buy? Even if one doesn't plan to sell them - ever - one knows that they might one day change their mind.

2 - The universe of knives one likes is much bigger than the amount one can spend (except for a few very wealthy individuals). Given that, assuming the enjoyment one will get between 2 knives is the same, doesn't make it sense to go for the one that might be the shrewdest purchase from an ROI standpoint?
 
i wish there were more threads about knives instead of investments and markets. it's become somewhat boring lately.

best regards,
hans[/QUOTE]


Seems to me by the amount of action this thread is getting that there are certainly a good number of people interested in the topic - now I will go back to mowing my lawn and having a beer, lol.
 
Hans,

You perform a very important service by putting all those high end knives to actual work. You keep potential fakers such as Cashen and Andrews on the straight and narrow path and prevent them from slacking off and building only cosmetically pretty "Safe Queens" ;)

P
 
Joss said:
Peter,

I am surprised that you see the $$$ concern as being orthogonal to a pure collector's point of view. Take 2 examples:

1 - Most collectors change their taste over time. Doesn't it make sense then to pay attention to the potential resale value of the knives one buy? Even if one doesn't plan to sell them - ever - one knows that they might one day change their mind.

2 - The universe of knives one likes is much bigger than the amount one can spend (except for a few very wealthy individuals). Given that, assuming the enjoyment one will get between 2 knives is the same, doesn't make it sense to go for the one that might be the shrewdest purchase from an ROI standpoint?
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I might not care that much either, Hans, if my bank accounts were denominated in Euros at the moment, lol.
 
Tai Goo said:
However, If there are any collectors and or investors who want to send me their money to buy them knives with,… and pay me a healthy "finders fee" for recognizing all the things I recognize,... I'd be gad to offer my services... :D

Just tell me what you want,... and I'll find it for you. :)

Bojingo! :D
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My name is “Tai Goo”, and I approve this message.

(Disclaimer: Any purchases will be subject to my personal tastes, preferences and expertise in the field of custom and handmade knives, and I retain the right to refuse any unreasonable offers, fees, pricing, or expectations in the after market… in accordance with my own judgment.)
 
As I understand the original post, Kevin isn't referring to people that purchase knives that are likely to go down in value. The problem being addressed is with people that for whatever reason sell knives for less than they are worth. This is done for a number of reasons. The primary ones are a need for quick money and a lack of knowledge as to what the knife is actually worth. Another reason is that an estate is being sold for whatever the estate seller can get for it. The first and last reasons are always going to be there. The way to mollify the second reason is to educate as many collectors as possible so they will know how to better evaluate the value of the knives in their collection.

This may appear to be a shameless plug, but there will soon be an association that will endeavor to do that educating. I think I should leave it up to Kevin to choose the time to fill everyone in on how this association will be able to help educate collectors that are interested in learning how to properly value their knives for resale. Of course, there will be a lot more to what this association has to offer as well.

My apologies Kevin, if I shouldn't have mentioned anything yet.
 
Tai Goo said:
My name is “Tai Goo”, and I approve this message.

(Disclaimer: Any purchases will be subject to my personal tastes, preferences and expertise in the field of custom and handmade knives, and I retain the right to refuse any unreasonable offers, fees, pricing, or expectations in the after market… in accordance with my own judgment.)
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In other words, if you want to buy a vintage Moran for $100 dollars today and a guartantee to sell it for $5,000 tomorrow,.... I retain the right to decline your business.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
As I understand the original post, Kevin isn't referring to people that purchase knives that are likely to go down in value. The problem being addressed is with people that for whatever reason sell knives for less than they are worth. This is done for a number of reasons. The primary ones are a need for quick money and a lack of knowledge as to what the knife is actually worth. Another reason is that an estate is being sold for whatever the estate seller can get for it. The first and last reasons are always going to be there. The way to mollify the second reason is to educate as many collectors as possible so they will know how to better evaluate the value of the knives in their collection.

This may appear to be a shameless plug, but there will soon be an association that will endeavor to do that educating. I think I should leave it up to Kevin to choose the time to fill everyone in on how this association will be able to help educate collectors that are interested in learning how to properly value their knives for resale. Of course, there will be a lot more to what this association has to offer as well.

My apologies Kevin, if I shouldn't have mentioned anything yet.
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No apologies necessary Keith, as I too plugged the association earlier in the thread. And you are correct in identifying the problem I'm attempting to address in this thread.

The reasons you give above as to why some sell knives for less than they are worth are the same reasons why I disagree that an object is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Unfortunate circumstances and/or lack of knowledge cause people to sell items for less than they are worth everyday.

Good productive discussion in this thread. :thumbup:
 
Kevin Jones said:
No apologies necessary Keith, as I too plugged the association earlier in the thread. And you are correct in identifying the problem I'm attempting to address in this thread.

I guess I missed that post.:o

The reasons you give above as to why some sell knives for less than they are worth are the same reasons why I disagree that an object is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Unfortunate circumstances and/or lack of knowledge cause people to sell items for less than they are worth everyday.

I don't think that someone selling something for a low price establishes that objects future value. When someone sells something for a low price because they need the money, that is an anomaly and will not affect the future resale prices for others trying to sell the same object. A few years ago a friend of mine had to sell his 1957 Chevy Belair. He priced it at 75% of what it was worth because he wanted it to sell fast. It did. However, him selling the car at that price had no affect on the future resale value of other Chevy Belairs, or even on the future resale price of that particular car.
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..........
 
No offence Kevin,... but nothing is broken and nothing needs fixing.

Things are the way they have always been,... and how they should be.

Worrying over it spoils the fun.

Just relax and appreciate the knives for what they are! :)

That which is of value will always be of value...

Your tastes and your opinions are as valid as anyone's...
 
However, if you look at the lead in to this forum, it says the place to find "information" about custom knives,... not "opinions" about custom knives. There is a difference. :)

... which is something we all need to work at...
 
Kevin Jones said:
Do we collectors have the ability to at least impact secondary market pricing if not control it by what we ask for or accept for our knives?

I understand and appreciate that some only collect for the enjoyment and would rather not even deal with the financial side of it, but I can't believe any collector would as soon lose money as break even or profit.

Can a collector buy what he/she likes yet still avoid losing upon sale of such?
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I doubt that any amount of education will have a visible impact on the secondary market. What education could do, however, is give some collectors an understanding that there are makers out there, name makers, who probably are making knives much like the ones the collectors are looking for.

Were such collectors knowledgeable about the "name" collectors who make the kind of stuff the collectors like, the collectors would fare much better upon re-sale and perhaps avoid larger losses, or avoid them altogether. This is perhaps where education would help. BUT in doing so, the educational process would probably be moving them away from buying product from up-and-coming new makers. Do we want that to happen?

But to think one can impact the secondary market in any meaningful way, through educating collectors, I don't think so. The market is just too large, too international, too diverse. The reach of any association would be so limited in comparison, and the educational program probably limited that much further, that any impact would be infinitely small.
 
Hi Tai,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai Goo View Post
However, If there are any collectors and or investors who want to send me their money to buy them knives with,… and pay me a healthy "finders fee" for recognizing all the things I recognize,... I'd be gad to offer my services...

Just tell me what you want,... and I'll find it for you.

Bojingo!
My name is “Tai Goo”, and I approve this message.

(Disclaimer: Any purchases will be subject to my personal tastes, preferences and expertise in the field of custom and handmade knives, and I retain the right to refuse any unreasonable offers, fees, pricing, or expectations in the after market… in accordance with my own judgment.)_
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It's best you leave the secondary market to the professionals. :D

As there are those who do this every day...not merely "tinker" at it.

We all know you were joking. I know I laughed out loud when I read your comments.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
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