Are you over Super Steels?

Rhinoknives1 said:
Would you kindly show us the proof you have that S30V is necessarily always more Brittle that 440C or AuS10 ?
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maybe not always, but I do have one extreme failure of S30V I was present for and I can easily say I've seen plenty of 440C, AUS8, 8cr13mov and a few other woker grade steels do plenty of times. It's not uncommon to use a light baton like a green stick to cross baton another stick to make it stake length or do a notch with an unlocked blade where the diameter is less than the width of the blade, so it's being hit only where it's cutting. I've done it at lest a dozen times with my current 8cr13mov blade and it does perfect. It's actually some pretty light duty.

A buddy who is in love with "super" steels wanted to prove the superiority of his S30V blade. He did one and the next stick shattered the blade. Maybe he hit too hard or had a bad hit, but I can tell you a stronger steel can survive a bad hit for that task. The blade broke like it was a ceramic blade being used.

We collected the pieces and this is what a just under half inch stick whacking the spine did to it cutting another stick to length.



So I stand by my the task at hand defines what's super and what's not statement. A steel composition chart, super steel scale and even dollars spent does not dictate what is super and what is not.

S30V ain't even all that good in cardboard so I don't know what it's good at. It's pretty much the first on my list of steels to avoid. Seen it perform underwhelmingly in everything to ever want to buy it. It may do good in a lab test or look great in a steel composition chart, I'm not paying that much money for one when its so lacking for what I use knives for. That's just me though. Anyone who wants to can and will buy it for whatever reason that fancies them.
 
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Boris74 said:
maybe not always, but I do have one extreme failure of S30V I was present for and I can easily say I've seen plenty of 440C, AUS8, 8cr13mov and a few other woker grade steels do plenty of times. It's not uncommon to use a light baton like a green stick to cross baton another stick to make it stake length or do a notch with an unlocked blade where the diameter is less than the width of the blade, so it's being hit only where it's cutting. I've done it at lest a dozen times with my current 8cr13mov blade and it does perfect. It's actually some pretty light duty.

A buddy who is in love with "super" steels wanted to prove the superiority of his S30V blade. He did one and the next stick shattered the blade. Maybe he hit too hard or had a bad hit, but I can tell you a stronger steel can survive a bad hit for that task. The blade broke like it was a ceramic blade being used.

We collected the pieces and this is what a just under half inch stick whacking the spine did to it cutting another stick to length.



So I stand by my the task at hand defines what's super and what's not statement. A steel composition chart, super steel scale and even dollars spent does not dictate what is super and what is not.

S30V ain't even all that good in cardboard so I don't know what it's good at. It's pretty much the first on my list of steels to avoid. Seen it perform underwhelmingly in everything to ever want to buy it. It may do good in a lab test or look great in a steel composition chart, I'm not paying that much money for one when its so lacking for what I use knives for. That's just me though. Anyone who wants to can and will buy it for whatever reason that fancies them.
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Honestly I've had and or used S30V from 3 different manufacturers (4 if you include leatherman and I don't) and each one performed pretty bad for me too. Maybe each manufacturer just cannot really hit the heat treat right, but then that'd be insulting to the companies that produced them. Maybe they hit the heat treat pretty well and S30V is just not that good for anything but close to perpendicular cutting through clean, soft stuff. Who knows. Maybe there are just too many variables without any real conclusions that can be reached and the whole YMMV thing should come into play. But then what can we tell a new guy looking for a good knife? Ankerson's tests only measure one (important) aspect of a knife. What about the other aspects? A guy like you will come up with a very valid reason why S30V may not be the best choice and then you're dogpiled for using your folding knife too hard or whatever when there's clear evidence that another steel could easily handle the same task without breaking.

But I don't know, I don't believe you. I don't believe you cut only green wood and that caused it to break. I believe you were smashing the knife against a cinder block and rolling it over with steam roller. I also believe it was probably counterfeit knife. Your experience is different than mine so you must be wrong and stupid. :)

Joking aside, that spyderco logo looks a little weird.
 
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Boris74 said:
maybe not always, but I do have one extreme failure of S30V I was present for and I can easily say I've seen plenty of 440C, AUS8, 8cr13mov and a few other woker grade steels do plenty of times. It's not uncommon to use a light baton like a green stick to cross baton another stick to make it stake length or do a notch with an unlocked blade where the diameter is less than the width of the blade, so it's being hit only where it's cutting. I've done it at lest a dozen times with my current 8cr13mov blade and it does perfect. It's actually some pretty light duty.

A buddy who is in love with "super" steels wanted to prove the superiority of his S30V blade. He did one and the next stick shattered the blade. Maybe he hit too hard or had a bad hit, but I can tell you a stronger steel can survive a bad hit for that task. The blade broke like it was a ceramic blade being used.

We collected the pieces and this is what a just under half inch stick whacking the spine did to it cutting another stick to length.



So I stand by my the task at hand defines what's super and what's not statement. A steel composition chart, super steel scale and even dollars spent does not dictate what is super and what is not.

S30V ain't even all that good in cardboard so I don't know what it's good at. It's pretty much the first on my list of steels to avoid. Seen it perform underwhelmingly in everything to ever want to buy it. It may do good in a lab test or look great in a steel composition chart, I'm not paying that much money for one when its so lacking for what I use knives for. That's just me though. Anyone who wants to can and will buy it for whatever reason that fancies them.
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S30V has worked fine for me. It is a PITA to sharpen if it needs anything other than a touch up. It is not the toughest steel, but it does have good wear resistance. I like it in folders only. If you need more toughness in a folder I would suggest Cold Steel. Lynn Thompson has made several videos for people that need knives tough enough to cut through car hoods. :p
Personally I dislike hard to sharpen steels or those with poor wear resistance. That said steels like VG10, 3V, N690 and S35VN seem to work well for my purposes. They sharpen relatively easy and keep the edge for an acceptable duration. Preferences will vary and the only answer that are wrong are ones that don't achieve the desired ends. Best is relative to what it is best of and the criteria used to reach that conclusion.
 
Boris, do you still have access to those pieces of broken s30v knife? If yes, please post a closeup shot for these surfaces. I just want to learn w/o make & break s30v coupons/knives... Thanks
brokens30v.jpg
 
Something's not right about that blade !! I would suspect it may never have been tempered ! It has to be very brittle to do that !
Send it back to Mr Spyderco .
 
mete said:
Something's not right about that blade !! I would suspect it may never have been tempered ! It has to be very brittle to do that !
Send it back to Mr Spyderco .
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Looks like a counterfeit to me so likely not even S30V.
 
Boris74 said:
maybe not always, but I do have one extreme failure of S30V I was present for and I can easily say I've seen plenty of 440C, AUS8, 8cr13mov and a few other woker grade steels do plenty of times. It's not uncommon to use a light baton like a green stick to cross baton another stick to make it stake length or do a notch with an unlocked blade where the diameter is less than the width of the blade, so it's being hit only where it's cutting. I've done it at lest a dozen times with my current 8cr13mov blade and it does perfect. It's actually some pretty light duty.

A buddy who is in love with "super" steels wanted to prove the superiority of his S30V blade. He did one and the next stick shattered the blade. Maybe he hit too hard or had a bad hit, but I can tell you a stronger steel can survive a bad hit for that task. The blade broke like it was a ceramic blade being used.

We collected the pieces and this is what a just under half inch stick whacking the spine did to it cutting another stick to length.



So I stand by my the task at hand defines what's super and what's not statement. A steel composition chart, super steel scale and even dollars spent does not dictate what is super and what is not.

S30V ain't even all that good in cardboard so I don't know what it's good at. It's pretty much the first on my list of steels to avoid. Seen it perform underwhelmingly in everything to ever want to buy it. It may do good in a lab test or look great in a steel composition chart, I'm not paying that much money for one when its so lacking for what I use knives for. That's just me though. Anyone who wants to can and will buy it for whatever reason that fancies them.
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Uh something ain't right with that Spydie and I'm not talking about it being broken
 
Spyderco tends to focus on wear resistance and makes their knives more brittle and therefore less tough to achieve that end. It isn't the first broken spyderco I have seen. Don't mistake Spyderco for a sharpened prybar company.
 
I've never really cared about these super steels or gone out of my way to buy them. I'm sure I got a few blades with these steels but I didn't buy them with the steel as a factor. So I guess I can't be over them since I was never into them.
 
Jhansenak47 said:
Spyderco tends to focus on wear resistance and makes their knives more brittle and therefore less tough to achieve that end. It isn't the first broken spyderco I have seen. Don't mistake Spyderco for a sharpened prybar company.
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You're suggesting they make knives to cut things as opposed to a "check this out, hold my beer" novelty? :uncomfortableness:

Don't mistake a knife for a prybar.
 
Sunyata said:
Uh something ain't right with that Spydie and I'm not talking about it being broken
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If it is in fact a counterfeit, then what steel would it most likely be?

It WOULD likely be 8cr13mov, the irony being that its the same steel in his post that can handle this batoning that S30v supposedly couldn't.

Boris74, are you and your friend based in Russia?
 
Stays Sharp said:
If it is in fact a counterfeit, then what steel would it most likely be?

It WOULD likely be 8cr13mov, the irony being that its the same steel in his post that can handle this batoning that S30v supposedly couldn't.

Boris74, are you and your friend based in Russia?
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I'm sure that a well heat treated 8cr13mov from a mediocre foundry is much better than a poorly heat treated 8cr13mov from a crappy foundry.
 
supergnat said:
What about it looks like a counterfeit?
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The logo, writing, and choil don't look right. Compare the "S" in spyderco on both knives. That should show what needs to be shown.

And like what they said earlier the way, look at the way the steel broke apart. Zoom on on the photo ans look at the chips along the crack lines. If that's a cpm steel then someone nuked the hell out of it.

dLDX3t9.jpg


Vs this. Now that I look a little closer it doesn't look like it has jimping either.

PF7ozla.jpg
 
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Stays Sharp said:
If it is in fact a counterfeit, then what steel would it most likely be?

It WOULD likely be 8cr13mov, the irony being that its the same steel in his post that can handle this batoning that S30v supposedly couldn't.

Boris74, are you and your friend based in Russia?
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The actual irony is you have no clue. If you worked over both steels you would. The sad fact is you obviously haven't used either. I'm not talking being disgusted at a steak house steak knife and flicking out your PM2 to remedy the situation use or chopping carrots in the kitchen, which seems to be the extent of use by many here.

Oh man, you got me Rolling right now. You can tell me all you want everything that you read on that glowing box in front of you and what it told you. It will never sink into your likes that some expensive steels are duds and some less expensive are great performers. I will never be able to convince you. That part is entirely on you and if you want to log out long enough or not to go see yourself.

Honey locust before (during).



And after



Next pile to work over. See that big bulgy knotted piece on the bottom?




Working it over in this one.



Working it over some more, it's not just popping apart either.



Yes, I know exactly how 8cr13mov performs. I am so sorry I can't just repeat what I read online about how crappy it is.
 
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