Are You Serious?

I see a very definite division in the type of collectors in the knife world, particularly customs.
First, people who love knives but have limited resources....they buy what they like but have to save up and only buy a few pieces a year.
Secondly, avid collectors who spend a lot of time and money buying (and selling) knives, but again, have limited resources and that is a big restraint in their hobby/OC.
Lastly, there are those with virtually unlimited funds, they buy whatever they like and and their collections continue to grow, irregardless of whether they sell some of their stuff or not.
As time goes on, everyone refines their tastes and directions change

All of these people fit together into the knife buying public, which includes me.
We all love knives..........It is a pretty cool hobby!!!!
 
peterinct said:
Perhaps it is MY perception...but I see a confluence of "collectors" and "investors" developing. While saavy collectors may profit from their collections, investors have ONE driving force...PROFIT.

Peter
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I don't know any knife investors. I have "heard" of some "investors" buying Loveless knives since the financial markets have faltered. Don't know how true this is.
Let's face it, there's thousands of better investments than custom knives. Many even in the collectible arena. Why would anyone buy collectible knives solely as an investment?

I consider myself a collector/investor in the sense that I primarily buy custom knives because I love to collect them, however I do follow certain parameters in my purchases of knives that allow me to maintain a positive ROI.
 
I haven't read through the whole thread yet. I consider myself a serious collector because of how time time I spend thinking about knives and participating on the forum. I spend all of my extra money on the knives as well and don't see myself losing interest. I also try to get all my knives photographed and submitted to publications.

I am by no means and never will be a BIG TIME collector though. I think in order to do that you need to have VERY deep pockets and need to have those 'hard to get' pieces from legendary makers (Schmidt, Moran, Walker etc...)

By putting as much effort into this and creating my website, it would be hard for me not to consider myself serious. If I had the money I would have alot more knives but right now I do what I can and I am happy.
 
Kevin,

Though you contend that my purchases do little, I believe the time and effort I put into the cumunity does more.
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You need to reread my post. I in no way implied that your purchases do little.

I take by the question marks after my remarks about Jerry you were confused.

By "heavy lifting" I meant that Jerry had already established himself as a premier maker long before you got interested in his knives. While he appreciates the time and money you spent with him, the truth is that if it wasn't you...it would have been someone else. You could have just as easily started buying knives from Tim Hancock or Larry Fuegen and not from Jerry.

The top makers always have people interested in their work.

The time and energy you put into custom knives is helpful to those who are looking for information on the types and styles of knives you collect. It is the same as say some like Roger P who now has the additional knowledge of actually making a knife (knowledge I do not possess). So his perspective will be sought out by those who have a similar mindset.

By the way it is spelled "community" not cumunity. :D
 
Kevin Jones said:
The "key" words in my question above are "grown and progressed significantly".
To answer your question, I would say not significantly, especially as compared to other collectibles such as stamps, watches, art and classic cars to name a few. I'm not saying lack of seriousness is totally to blame for custom knives's lag behind but it has contributed IMO.
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I won't presume to comment on other collectibles because:

a) apart from watches, I don't know much about any of them; and
b) I'm not sure there is an equivalence with custom knives in any event.

But I would say there sure has been a significant growth in the custom knife industry over the last 10 / 15 / 20 years. You may disagree. And no, I don't purport to keep stats on the subject. But to use a few barometers, there sure seem to be sigificantlly more:

a) Knife makers
b) Knife shows
c) Knife dealers
d) Knife-related discussion forums
e) Knife magazines

etc... today than back in the day.

I suppose we could split hairs and pick nits on any one of those, but my point is that the industry has always been composed of larger number of "casuall" versus "serious" - and it HAS grown. Significantly.

Roger
 
I'm not sure how to define a "serious" collector. I started collecting knives as a teenager before I knew anything about knives. I became more critical of my choices as I learned. I currently have about 300 knives in my collection, some are not worth much and some are. But as I look at what I have spent over the years and what I estimate the current value of the collection to be, yes, it is serious to me.

Another thing to note is that there are a lot of collectors and collections out there that you don't hear much about. I do some writing and photography and have had the privilage of meeting some collectors and seeing some collections that the owners preferred to keep quiet for various reasons. In some case these are outstanding multi-million dollar collections.

Not long ago I saw a collection that a family had discoverd in a garage after the collector had died. They didn't even know he collected knives or anything about them but there were about 60 knives including Loveless, Warenski, Hibben, and several other well known names and some classic pieces. It was a fantastic small collection that had been stashed away, forgotten about and unfortunately sadly neglected.
 
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Hi Peter,

Perhaps it is MY perception...but I see a confluence of "collectors" and "investors" developing. While saavy collectors may profit from their collections, investors have ONE driving force...PROFIT.

Peter
Click to expand...

I have to ask the question to you and anyone else reading this. I there a particular reason that some seem to want to chastise those who sell a knife and make money?

As has been discussed here there is a lot of time, energy and money spent on custom knives. All of you are "investors". You invest your time, energy and money into custom knives. Now you may not think of yourself this way.

Peter, don't get me wrong I know that custom knives to the collectors who own them different levels of satisfaction and pride. As well lets be honest most of us are not in the position that we can continuously buy custom with an unlimited budget.

Consequently, what is happening in the custom knife market is that more collectors, like Kevin are adopting "parameters" to their collection. Personally if more collectors adopted this attitude it would be of long term benefit for custom knives.

That is not to say there are not pure profiteers out there. Collectors out there who will only buy a knife if they can turn an immediate profit. Peter, it is their money, don't you think they should be able to decide how they spend it?

The advent of Internet is exposing more people to custom knives than ever before. I would hope that because of the information available on forums like this. That more people would do their "homework" prior to purchasing a knife. This would allow them to make a better decision with regards to the totality of the market. Doing your "homework" allows the collector to still get the knife they want. While at the same time giving them the best chance to purchase a knife that will hold its value.

Imagine people posting on the Internet "I lost my job and had to sell my custom knife collection. Fortunately I bought custom knives as I got back every penny I put into my collection!"

Personally I think it is a shame that most custom knives out there, should push come to shove will not hold their value. Fortunately, this is starting to change.
 
Kevin Jones said:
Hi Peter.
I would like to hear what your and Keith's definition of a serious collector is. Mind is basically the opposite of the definition I stated above for casual.
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To me, a serious collector is one that takes the time to learn as much about knives, materials, knifemaking and the people that make up the custom knife community as possible. They should also do as much as possible to share their passion with others. Learning what goes into making good purchasing decisions would also be a good idea, even if ROI isn't of much importance to them.
 
Les Robertson said:
Kevin,

You need to reread my post. I in no way implied that your purchases do little.

I take by the question marks after my remarks about Jerry you were confused.

By "heavy lifting" I meant that Jerry had already established himself as a premier maker long before you got interested in his knives. While he appreciates the time and money you spent with him, the truth is that if it wasn't you...it would have been someone else. You could have just as easily started buying knives from Tim Hancock or Larry Fuegen and not from Jerry.

Yes Les, I'm confused. What does the above have to do with the topic of this thread? Why is my relationship with Jerry or any maker for that matter relevant to my being a serious collector?
I don't see your point any clearer here than the first time you wrote it.

Just so you know, I have bought quite a few Hancocks over the years, currently own two. I have probably owned almost as many Winkler knives over the years as Fisk. Actually, I have all that information documented, perhaps I should forward it to you so you will stop implying that I only collect Fisk knives.

The top makers always have people interested in their work.

The time and energy you put into custom knives is helpful to those who are looking for information on the types and styles of knives you collect. It is the same as say some like Roger P who now has the additional knowledge of actually making a knife (knowledge I do not possess). So his perspective will be sought out by those who have a similar mindset.

Actually in regard to being a serious collector, I was more referring to the time and effort I put into the CKCA, custom knife charity projects, collecting seminars and promoting the industry in general rather than my actual collecting.

By the way it is spelled "community" not cumunity. :D
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Since you are checking my spelling :jerkit:, guess I better do a spell check on the above.
 
I don't think that you have to look at knives as an investment to be a serious collector, but I certainly don't think that there is anything wrong with it either. I don't personally look at knives as an investment, but I do want to know which makers' knives are likely to hold their value, because even if I don't ever sell my knives, someday someone likely will.
 
RogerP said:
I won't presume to comment on other collectibles because:

a) apart from watches, I don't know much about any of them; and
b) I'm not sure there is an equivalence with custom knives in any event.

But I would say there sure has been a significant growth in the custom knife industry over the last 10 / 15 / 20 years. You may disagree. And no, I don't purport to keep stats on the subject. But to use a few barometers, there sure seem to be sigificantlly more:

a) Knife makers
b) Knife shows
c) Knife dealers
d) Knife-related discussion forums
e) Knife magazines

etc... today than back in the day.

I suppose we could split hairs and pick nits on any one of those, but my point is that the industry has always been composed of larger number of "casuall" versus "serious" - and it HAS grown. Significantly.
Roger
Click to expand...

We agree that the industry has always been composed of a larger number of "casual" vs "serious" however as far as significance of growth, I guess my expectations are just greater than yours.
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi Peter,



I have to ask the question to you and anyone else reading this. I there a particular reason that some seem to want to chastise those who sell a knife and make money?

As has been discussed here there is a lot of time, energy and money spent on custom knives. All of you are "investors". You invest your time, energy and money into custom knives. Now you may not think of yourself this way.

Peter, don't get me wrong I know that custom knives to the collectors who own them different levels of satisfaction and pride. As well lets be honest most of us are not in the position that we can continuously buy custom with an unlimited budget.

Consequently, what is happening in the custom knife market is that more collectors, like Kevin are adopting "parameters" to their collection. Personally if more collectors adopted this attitude it would be of long term benefit for custom knives.

That is not to say there are not pure profiteers out there. Collectors out there who will only buy a knife if they can turn an immediate profit. Peter, it is their money, don't you think they should be able to decide how they spend it?

The advent of Internet is exposing more people to custom knives than ever before. I would hope that because of the information available on forums like this. That more people would do their "homework" prior to purchasing a knife. This would allow them to make a better decision with regards to the totality of the market. Doing your "homework" allows the collector to still get the knife they want. While at the same time giving them the best chance to purchase a knife that will hold its value.

Imagine people posting on the Internet "I lost my job and had to sell my custom knife collection. Fortunately I bought custom knives as I got back every penny I put into my collection!"

Personally I think it is a shame that most custom knives out there, should push come to shove will not hold their value. Fortunately, this is starting to change.
Click to expand...

Well said and I agree, even though you misspelled "Is". ;)
 
Kevin is at 5000 even. I feel like a noob still at 911 posts.

EDIT- oops david beat me to the punch
 
David,

There are no "real" numbers or stats or raw data on knife collectors. I can give my guess and this all it is...a guess.

Many collectors don't want the world to know what they have...as thieves read these forums as well.

I find it interesting how many "definitions" there are for types of collectors.

As for Big Fish...define big fish. Is this amount of money spent on custom knives? Amount paid for an individual knife? Amount of knives in a collection.

Dave you want answers...you have to set the parameters.
 
I would consider myself a serious collector, or purveyor, or Knife Knut, or what have you.

In 2008 I spent, exchanged, sold, purchased, and acquired over $50,000 worth of custom knives of all shapes, sizes, makers, and genres. For me the knife industry has been a life long passion since I received my first small folder as a 6 year old boy.

Today I am proud to say that I have some of the best friends I have ever had in my life in the knife industry. I also have learned a tremendous amount from many makers, purveyors and other collectors. The relationships mean the most to me..which...in turn

Drives me to attend several shows a year including in 2007 and 08, Blade, Spirit of Steel. Chicago Custom Knife show, the Badger show, Novi Mi show and other smaller events...

I really don't think I am an authority on anything...or have much influence on the knife industry per se...but heck I sure have fun..:)
 
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