Are You Serious?

[Keith Montgomery]

Nope, i was wrong.. it was 1 more. 25,845. Dern!


Kevin is about to ruin his perfect "5000". Hold out Kev! Dont waste it!

Tom,
What is it like "baiting" professionally? Sorry, the ghost of Phil prevails.
David

I sure don't know what any of this has to do with the topic of this thread. Can you enlighten me, please?

 

[sheathmaker]

This thread is losing its charm...

What we need is good "entertainment".
David

Plus 1

Little pot shots from all directions have a way of diluting otherwise good and interesting information, and in addition adds a lot of stress to us speed readers. You guys play nice and be considerate of others feelings and opinions.

The foregoing was and is representative of my opinion.

Paul

 

[peterinct]

Hi Peter,



I have to ask the question to you and anyone else reading this. I there a particular reason that some seem to want to chastise those who sell a knife and make money?

As has been discussed here there is a lot of time, energy and money spent on custom knives. All of you are "investors". You invest your time, energy and money into custom knives. Now you may not think of yourself this way.

Peter, don't get me wrong I know that custom knives to the collectors who own them different levels of satisfaction and pride. As well lets be honest most of us are not in the position that we can continuously buy custom with an unlimited budget.

Consequently, what is happening in the custom knife market is that more collectors, like Kevin are adopting "parameters" to their collection. Personally if more collectors adopted this attitude it would be of long term benefit for custom knives.

That is not to say there are not pure profiteers out there. Collectors out there who will only buy a knife if they can turn an immediate profit. Peter, it is their money, don't you think they should be able to decide how they spend it?

The advent of Internet is exposing more people to custom knives than ever before. I would hope that because of the information available on forums like this. That more people would do their "homework" prior to purchasing a knife. This would allow them to make a better decision with regards to the totality of the market. Doing your "homework" allows the collector to still get the knife they want. While at the same time giving them the best chance to purchase a knife that will hold its value.

Imagine people posting on the Internet "I lost my job and had to sell my custom knife collection. Fortunately I bought custom knives as I got back every penny I put into my collection!"

Personally I think it is a shame that most custom knives out there, should push come to shove will not hold their value. Fortunately, this is starting to change.

I can agree with most of what you say but where did I say I resent anyone making a profit on selling a knife? If you were to read what I said, I clearly stated that I wouldn't attempt to make a "one size fits all" statement as to what a "serious" collector is.

Like anyone else, if and when I sell my knives, I would hope to make a profit from them, but as inconceivable as it may be to you, when I purchased them it was because I simply liked them.

Perhaps a "serious" collector is one that has no fun collecting?

Peter

 

[Kevin Jones]

Nope, i was wrong.. it was 1 more. 25,845. Dern!


Kevin is about to ruin his perfect "5000". Hold out Kev! Dont waste it!

Tom,
What is it like "baiting" professionally? Sorry, the ghost of Phil prevails.
David

Let's try to stay at least close to topic, some good discussion going on.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I would consider myself a serious collector, or purveyor, or Knife Knut, or what have you.

In 2008 I spent, exchanged, sold, purchased, and acquired over $50,000 worth of custom knives of all shapes, sizes, makers, and genres. For me the knife industry has been a life long passion since I received my first small folder as a 6 year old boy.

Today I am proud to say that I have some of the best friends I have ever had in my life in the knife industry. I also have learned a tremendous amount from many makers, purveyors and other collectors. The relationships mean the most to me..which...in turn
Drives me to attend several shows a year including in 2007 and 08, Blade, Spirit of Steel. Chicago Custom Knife show, the Badger show, Novi Mi show and other smaller events...

I really don't think I am an authority on anything...or have much influence on the knife industry per se...but heck I sure have fun..

:thumbup: Good post Ren. A big part of it for me as well.

 

[2knife]

.......

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Sorry Keith, just poking at you, in fun.
David

I can take the poking, but I think it takes away from the discussion, which I think is interesting.

 

[Lorien]

Perhaps a "serious" collector is one that has no fun collecting?

Peter

I like that! First thing that popped into my head when I first laid eyes on the title of this thread, and #1 reason I don't consider myself a 'serious' collector- or even really a Collector! More like a dude that has an overwhelming interest in Art and how it relates to handmade knives and other things, but more significantly, the performance possibilities inherent in the design and execution of a handmade/custom knife-as-tool.

The knives I use are made to perform, and nothing performs as well as a purpose built tool! Just when I think I've found the best knife for the job, another comes along which works better! And maybe only for certain tasks. Those are the kinds of knives I desire to have and acquire, but at the same time, the Art in knives really gets my fire stoked too.:thumbup: I just don't feel a need to own them. I can, for the most part, live vicariously through the photos generously posted by those who are interested in having and acquiring those knives I'd never see otherwise, or in Dr. D's books, which are starting to look a little threadbare already. For me, the imaginative aspect of studying designs, patterns and materials plays an important role, even more so than the proximal physicality of these objects.

I liken it to other Art, which in the past, I've studied til my brain hurt. While there's no doubt I have admiration for great paintings or sculptures or photographs or whatever, I have zero desire to actually own anything notable. My daughter's drawings on our fridge have more significance to me than any Boticelli or Van Gogh or Rembrandt. They awaken more in me than any great work of Art, and I'd say the same for a knife which has joined me for countless hours every day or one that works alongside my other tools in the bush, compared to one that I'd be afraid to touch.

If anything like a Loveless or Moran came my way by some strange twist of fate, I wouldn't hesitate to turn that knife over, and give that money to a few different people to make some knives just for me. You know, unless it was a gift. I do believe in honouring gifts, but that's totally different. I have my way, and beyond trying to explain it further, it is what it is.

Hell, I wouldn't presume to refer to myself as a 'serious' anything. That's just me, I'm just a funguy- the fungus among us, if you will

I reserve seriousness for things I can't handle any other way, and knives sure as hell aren't that for me.

But this thread ain't about me, so I'll just shut it, I can't think of anything useful I can add from here on in with this topic, other than my own silly views
I'll continue to read it with interest though.

 

[brownshoe]

A collector is "one who collects." Collect means to "accumulate". None of the definitions of this word include getting rid of anything. So if you buy to sell, you're not a collector. You must buy to accumlate...although this doesn't mean when baby needs shoes you can't let go of a Loveless or two

There is no need to support any "community" to be a collector. All you have to do is accumulate.

Serious means "grave in quality or manner" but also means "carried out in ernest" or "deeply interested or involved." Serious has nothing to do with how much money you have or the top of the "pyramid" in knife buying. Serious has nothing to do with your taste and the overall artistic quality or monetary worth of your collection. It has to do with your passion for knives. Youtube has a lot of serious collectors of production knives. They may never sell a knife, or buy a custom, but their living room has display cases of every spyderco ever made and they follow their fav brands like dog follows a bitch in heat. They are serious and they collect.

So, I'd define a serious collector as one who accumulates knives (i.e. collector) but also reads about knives, studies knife construction, goes to knife shows, meets the makers, etc. We can all be serious collectors if we have the time and a wee bit of money.

 

[SPXTrader]

A collector is "one who collects." Collect means to "accumulate". None of the definitions of this word include getting rid of anything. So if you buy to sell, you're not a collector. You must buy to accumlate...although this doesn't mean when baby needs shoes you can't let go of a Loveless or two

There is no need to support any "community" to be a collector. All you have to do is accumulate.

Serious means "grave in quality or manner" but also means "carried out in ernest" or "deeply interested or involved." Serious has nothing to do with how much money you have or the top of the "pyramid" in knife buying. Serious has nothing to do with your taste and the overall artistic quality or monetary worth of your collection. It has to do with your passion for knives. Youtube has a lot of serious collectors of production knives. They may never sell a knife, or buy a custom, but their living room has display cases of every spyderco ever made and they follow their fav brands like dog follows a bitch in heat. They are serious and they collect.

So, I'd define a serious collector as one who accumulates knives (i.e. collector) but also reads about knives, studies knife construction, goes to knife shows, meets the makers, etc. We can all be serious collectors if we have the time and a wee bit of money.

Thank you Mr. Webster. It's nice you support BFC with your mind.

 

[Kevin Jones]

A collector is "one who collects." Collect means to "accumulate". None of the definitions of this word include getting rid of anything. So if you buy to sell, you're not a collector. You must buy to accumlate...although this doesn't mean when baby needs shoes you can't let go of a Loveless or two

There is no need to support any "community" to be a collector. All you have to do is accumulate.

Serious means "grave in quality or manner" but also means "carried out in ernest" or "deeply interested or involved." Serious has nothing to do with how much money you have or the top of the "pyramid" in knife buying. Serious has nothing to do with your taste and the overall artistic quality or monetary worth of your collection. It has to do with your passion for knives. Youtube has a lot of serious collectors of production knives. They may never sell a knife, or buy a custom, but their living room has display cases of every spyderco ever made and they follow their fav brands like dog follows a bitch in heat. They are serious and they collect.

So, I'd define a serious collector as one who accumulates knives (i.e. collector) but also reads about knives, studies knife construction, goes to knife shows, meets the makers, etc. We can all be serious collectors if we have the time and a wee bit of money.

Isn't going to knife shows and meeting makers supporting the "community"?

 

[sunnyd]

bownshoe,

A serious collector of what knives?.

By your post we could all deduct that, for instance, you could be a collector of kitchen knives.. Although just because you accumulate them, read about them, study their construction and visit some knife shows doesn't make you a serious knife collector in my book.. :thumbdn:

 

[john april]

big time and serious are opinions that can not be nailed down. to the guy who owns knives that all say china and pakistan on them, the guy who has 7 spyderco factory knives is a serious bigtime collector. ,to him a guy with real randalls is a serious bigtime collector. to that guy a man that has liles is bigtime, and unward and upward. i only have about 15 grand worth, but to guys i know, somehow im bigtime. for all we know, i may be more pleased and proud with my knves than the guy with 50 grand worth. but no one will ever know or be able to measure.. when you start to actually sacrifice other things in your life for money to collect with, id say that qualifies as serious, at whatever price range. woodster

 

[brownshoe]

You can be a serious collector of knives and concentrate on Kitchen knives.

Sunny D why say "just because you accumulate them, read about them, study their construction and visit some knife shows doesn't make you a serious knife collector in my book." This hypothetical person is certainly a collector. Many of the knife collectors on this forum never go to shows.

Personally, if the term "serious collector" means anything other than "accumulating knives in an eanest manner" you are being a snob. I collect knives I like with no theme to my collection. I don't judge what someone else wants to collect. Personally I find it fun to find out what someone else appreciates in what they collect. There are some pretty arcane collections out there. Same with knives. I'll never forget the little old lady I met once with the massive collection of "prostitute" dirks or the man with his collection of miniatures.

 

[tom mayo]

I won't presume to comment on other collectibles because:

a) apart from watches, I don't know much about any of them; and
b) I'm not sure there is an equivalence with custom knives in any event.

But I would say there sure has been a significant growth in the custom knife industry over the last 10 / 15 / 20 years. You may disagree. And no, I don't purport to keep stats on the subject. But to use a few barometers, there sure seem to be sigificantlly more:

a) Knife makers
b) Knife shows
c) Knife dealers
d) Knife-related discussion forums
e) Knife magazines

etc... today than back in the day.

I suppose we could split hairs and pick nits on any one of those, but my point is that the industry has always been composed of larger number of "casuall" versus "serious" - and it HAS grown. Significantly.

Roger

Much of this is directly related to the internet age and the glut of information available at the touch of a button.

I see serious knife collectors as people who chase their passion with great vigor.

The people who have been doing it for many, many years, become so focused on their particular passion that many times they have knives that I did not know existed until I stumbled upon their table.

 

[SharpByCoop]

Post #8, BTW.

Yes, serious, is a better term, but even this term has it's minor challenges: It almost forsakes the value of fun.

brownshoe has a storied past. But today, in this thread, he make clear sense to me. It's a valid perspective.

Good stuff, Les. :thumbup:

Coop

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Brownshoe makes an excellent point.

You certainly don't have to take the fun out of collecting to be a serious collector. In fact, if it isn't fun, why bother?

 

[Kevin Jones]

I would think turning a hobby into a business would definitely add a degree of seriousness.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has done such.

I imagine there quite a few makers here that at some point have gone from hobbyist to businessmen and those who have gone from knife collector to knife dealer.

Has it taken any of the enjoyment out of it?

Increased your interest?

 

[2knife]

......

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi David and Kevin,

As someone who has gone from collector to custom knife dealer it gets very serious. I will have been full time for 14 years this April 1st.

The main difference between being a Full Time dealer and a collector (besides the paperwork) is the amount of homework you "Have" to do. You cannot tie up thousands of dollars in inventory that won't sell. To be successful you have to be "right" about the makers you chose to work with and the knives you buy and the materials you chose to be on those knives...90 - 95% of the time. The margin for error is very slim.

Becoming a dealer and traveling to and setting up at shows is very exciting in the beginning. You are full of hope and enthusiasm. A couple of bad shows and you quickly learn the difference between net and gross profit.

Part time dealers like part time makers have their regular job and benefits to fall back on if things get slow. This allows them to take more risks, for better or worse.

As for your enjoyment being less..if you don't thoroughly love what you are doing while working for yourself....you will fail.

I enjoy custom knives even more now than I did when I was a collector. Every day I am learning something about custom knives, makers and collectors.

I was part-time for 8 years before I went full time. I would recommend that path (of doing this part time first) for anyone whether they are a maker or a collector wanting to become a dealer.

I was a knifeaholic...and still am. The worst knifeaholics...become dealers.