Art Knife Invitational '09 ~ images/impressions

Marcel54 said:
I think Rick cleaned up nicely this time around:D;)

For some reason I can't get the name of that fish pop up in my head...yeah I know it's old age...... STeven, what's it called again?

Marcel
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Marcel,

It is the venomous "Lion Fish" and looks like a plastic species
of the genus Pterois....

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
Phil really knows how to put on a show. :thumbup:

Looks like the knives that collectors bring are quite a treat in addition to the maker offered knives.

Thanks Buddy for giving us a look via your outstanding images.
 
There is one MAJOR flaw with the manner in which the show took place, in my opinion. In theory, everyone is supposed to have an equal chance in the drawings. In practice, that isn't the case. Invitees get together and switch their tickets, scratching off each others' names and numbers, whereby one person can, in fact, deposit multiple entries for any knife.

I was VERY disappointed to see this practice as it unfolded. I think any new attendees felt the same way. I have heard from many who could not believe it was happening. And it appeared as if no one really saw it as a problem. I was standing at a maker's box as he drew the same name - from one box - five times in a row - because that's how many entries were put in, in that person's name (at least).

EDIT: I myself would not condone this practice and handled my entries in a legitimate way - and I guess the Karma helped me win the drawing on the Steinau.
 
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Marcel,

It is the venomous "Lion Fish" and looks like a plastic species
of the genus Pterois....

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
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Yep, that's the one. Thanks David.

I was VERY disappointed to see this practice as it unfolded. I think any new attendees felt the same way. I have heard from many who could not believe it was happening. And it appeared as if no one really saw it as a problem. I was standing at a maker's box as he drew the same name - from one box - five times in a row - because that's how many entries were put in, in that person's name (at least).
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Bob, I'm wondering what was the makers reaction when this happened?

Marcel
 
betzner said:
There is one MAJOR flaw with the manner in which the show took place, in my opinion. In theory, everyone is supposed to have an equal chance in the drawings. In practice, that isn't the case. Invitees get together and switch their tickets, scratching off each others' names and numbers, whereby one person can, in fact, deposit multiple entries for any knife.
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Yes, this is a flaw in the system and one that needs to be addressed before the next show. There is not much the maker can do, it will have to come from the show promoter.
 
Marcel, I think happy collectors make happy makers. And if collectors see it as a problem, shouldn't the makers?

In a couple of cases, I think the practice led to makers drawing the same name out, time and again, from the same box. Theoretically, a certain amount of time is supposed to pass before a third, fourth, fifth name is drawn. In the meantime, those drawn have already bought all their knives, become tapped out and do not bother, I presume, to do the decent thing and alert the maker of their intent NOT to buy.

I would think it makes it hard on the makers. But that's not observation, just opinion.
 
My observation is that, by deviating from the rules of the show, dealers came away with a DECIDED advantage over collectors - simply by virtue of violating the rules.
 
betzner said:
....I was VERY disappointed to see this practice as it unfolded. I think any new attendees felt the same way. I have heard from many who could not believe it was happening. And it appeared as if no one really saw it as a problem. I was standing at a maker's box as he drew the same name - from one box - five times in a row - because that's how many entries were put in, in that person's name (at least)..
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Quite a few of the "collectors" are in fact dealers, and some will do whatever it takes to get the knives of their desire. That is a fact, and I doubt that the AKI Technical Committee will come up with failsafe rules that will change this fact.

I'll suggest to Phil Lobred that he laminate the Intent to Purchase slips in order to minimize this specific behavior next show.

I myself had my wife's tickets(she was at a funeral) and my own...had her ticket been drawn, and the maker objected that she was not in attendance, this would have been a problem....now you might not have been happy had the maker sold me the knife(this is all hypothetical), but I would have made EVERYBODY unhappy had that ticket not been honored.....I understand your point, but also understand that not everyone may have the upstanding moral fiber that you possess.

Bob, there are no perfect shows, no perfect knives and no perfect people. That too is a fact.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Just a guess, but I would imagine this started out pretty innocently, and has grown into what it is today (the multiple ticket thing)
Many of the shows I go to now forbid mulitple entries by anyone, and can, in fact, deny someones winning ticket if they are found disregarding this rule (Ernie Emersons lottery comes to mind)
 
I understand that the AKI is limited to 175 collectors, but is there an exhibition or show aspect to this event, or do the rest of us have to hope for posted photos? Is there a way to just buy the catalog? I ask because I have family in SD and would love to see the knives in 2011.
 
Kohai999 said:
Quite a few of the "collectors" are in fact dealers, and some will do whatever it takes to get the knives of their desire. That is a fact, and I doubt that the AKI Technical Committee will come up with failsafe rules that will change this fact.

I'll suggest to Phil Lobred that he laminate the Intent to Purchase slips in order to minimize this specific behavior next show.

I myself had my wife's tickets(she was at a funeral) and my own...had her ticket been drawn, and the maker objected that she was not in attendance, this would have been a problem....now you might not have been happy had the maker sold me the knife(this is all hypothetical), but I would have made EVERYBODY unhappy had that ticket not been honored.....I understand your point, but also understand that not everyone may have the upstanding moral fiber that you possess.

Bob, there are no perfect shows, no perfect knives and no perfect people. That too is a fact.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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I agree with everything you have said, STeven, but it doesn't change the fact that it screws the collector. And it happens in a BIG way. Nothing is perfect, but it was so in-your-face that I, as a collector, have a huge problem with it.
 
I myself had my wife's tickets(she was at a funeral) and my own...had her ticket been drawn, and the maker objected that she was not in attendance, this would have been a problem....now you might not have been happy had the maker sold me the knife(this is all hypothetical), but I would have made EVERYBODY unhappy had that ticket not been honored.....I understand your point, but also understand that not everyone may have the upstanding moral fiber that you possess.
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Having never been to this show , does it specify the name drawn must be present to purchase the knife from the maker ?
 
John T Wylie Jr said:
Having never been to this show , does it specify the name drawn must be present to purchase the knife from the maker ?
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The catalog specifies that the person who shows up to claim the win and buy the knife must have a AKI badge with a name and number that matches the name and number on the ticket.

Apparently this is fineline, because they got around this by just scratching out the name and number on the original ticket and writing in their own.

The rule should have been that the names and numbers had to match the PRINTED badge to the PRINTED ticket.

EDIT: Or some other method to at least mediate the problem
 
Hi Bob,

My observation is that, by deviating from the rules of the show, dealers came away with a DECIDED advantage over collectors - simply by virtue of violating the rules.
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Which "dealers" would those be?

As STeven pointed out there are many collectors that are vest pocket dealers.

So I would ask you to cite names or withdraw your comment bad mouthing dealers.

Yes, I take it personal when collectors "generalize" without specific examples to back up their claims.

I look forward to your response naming names...or withdrawing your comment.

Yea I know...here we go with that whole "ethics" thing again.
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi Bob,



Which "dealers" would those be?

As STeven pointed out there are many collectors that are vest pocket dealers.

So I would ask you to cite names or withdraw your comment bad mouthing dealers.

Yes, I take it personal when collectors "generalize" without specific examples to back up their claims.

I look forward to your response naming names...or withdrawing your comment.

Yea I know...here we go with that whole "ethics" thing again.
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Les, am I gonna need to put you on my ignore list again? Go ahead and demand all you want. You don't run my life, that show or anything else. Pull names out of your xxx if you want.

EDIT: I am expressing an opinion that was shared by many a collector. I do not need to justify my opinions to you, ESPECIALLY. It just sounds to me like you are trying to justify dealers breaking rules.
 
Collectors do it, dealers do it etc. Same thing went on at the Plaza show and I assume it will go on at Solvang too. I'm guilty also, I've traded tickets to drop with friends for knives I wanted and they didn't and vice versa. What I want to know is, did all the makers sell all of their knives?
 
mrappraisit said:
...... but is there an exhibition or show aspect to this event, or do the rest of us have to hope for posted photos? Is there a way to just buy the catalog? I ask because I have family in SD and would love to see the knives in 2011.
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There is no exhibition, and "the rest of us" have to hope for posted photos. There is no way to just buy the catalog, you have to be an attendee to get on or hope that one sells theirs on e-bay or similar.

Sorry.:(

martinr said:
What I want to know is, did all the makers sell all of their knives?
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I would say that most makers sold out....there might have literally been a knife or two left over.....I don't think S.R. Johnson sold his $20,000 gold and pearl dagger, or that Pierre Reverdy sold his sculpture/knife.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
with all due respect , since Les made the request for these dealers to be outted....

Les Robertson said:
Hi Bob,



Which "dealers" would those be?

As STeven pointed out there are many collectors that are vest pocket dealers.

So I would ask you to cite names or withdraw your comment bad mouthing dealers.

Yes, I take it personal when collectors "generalize" without specific examples to back up their claims.

I look forward to your response naming names...or withdrawing your comment.

Yea I know...here we go with that whole "ethics" thing again.
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I would like Les to follow his same request and go back the recent thread regarding Ed's new article and instead of generalizing towards all makers , he provide SPECIFIC names....

man up bud....

Les Robertson said:
Ok, how about a well known folder maker who goes into retirement within weeks of another well known folder maker dying. As well another incredibly well known maker no longer offers folders shortly after this very well known folder maker dies.

Would you consider this an ethical problem as the maker who died was making the folders for these two makers. Without letting anyone know.

It was common knowledge to some...but not most.

No, Im not going to tell you Kevin...find out for yourself.
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I hate to see this thread about the AKI go sideways. So in the best interest of the thread, I am just going to put Les on ignore right now. No need to await his further eruditional attempts. I don't need the crap he doles out - EVER AGAIN.

EDIT: If anyone wonders or cares why I don't respond to anything he says, it is precisely because I have no idea what he'd be sayin'.
 
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