Art Knife Invitational '09 ~ images/impressions

[eisman]

I'll come right out and apologize for inadvertantly suggesting anyone do something illegal. Still, seeing that it's common to post catalogs, with prices realized, for other like sales I don't know how I could have known this would be taboo. Certainly such practices have not hurt the high end art, watch, gun, and automobile industries.

For all that the members of this forum talk about advancing the industry and attracting more collectors I'd have to think that hiding all the good stuff is a pretty poor tactic.

As for this being serious business, you're wrong. It's a hobby. Serious business is Fiskars posting a 167 million euros in business a quarter, Toyo Knives doing 7.1 Billion yen in business a year, Case doing $38 Million/year, Leatherman pushing 2.5 Million units. I'll bet the often maligned Cold Steel's Lynn Thomson writes more business at SHOT than any 5 guys in the room did at AKI.

Joe Public at a show is hobby, trade is business.

Like the British gun industry the custom knife industry lives because of the customer who does this for fun. It will probably never totally die out, and a fair number of people will continue to make a living at it, but they'll only hurt themselves if they forget who the market is.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Thanks for the great photos, Buddy. Looks like a great show. I would really like to get a closer look at the knives S.R. Johnson had at the show.

 

[Joss]

Eisman - I don't think what you suggested was illegal, in any case it's not something that can be decided that easily by lay persons. There's a fair use doctrine, and I think an internet quality scan of the catalog might be covered by it. Not sure though, it's just not clear cut.

I am not sure I understand what is the problem with the tickets. If I understand the issue, it is that people get a maximum of 1 ticket per knife, and then they trade those tickets among themselves, right? What's the big deal? In what way isn't that something that small collectors can't do? I don't see why small collectors are at any more disadvantage than at any other show. In fact, I'd say they're less at a disadvantage.

 

[Joss]

Buddy - thanks for the great pics.

 

[severedthumbs]

lol at informing phil to initiate action if someone posted a scanned copy of the catalog. copyrighted perhaps, but we all know how much grey area is involved in this type of thing.

great pics

 

[Marcel54]

Here are the knives Larry Fuegen had on his table. First his Gentlemen's Bowie and his push dagger.

Marcel

 

[Marcel54]

And his Art Dagger and Goblin Folder named "Dragonheart".

Marcel

 

[Omni44]

Larry Fuegen received the Buster Award this year. C Gray Taylor received in at the 2007 show.

 

[nifrand]

Thanks Buddy for the report and pics.
Lets keep this thread on topic.Please!
Randy

 

[Kevin Jones]

Larry's got to be one of the most talented artist/craftsman out there.
He seems to push each piece to the next level and IMO his sheaths are second to none.
Considering the makers in the room, that's one prestigious award.

 

[betzner]

Eisman - I don't think what you suggested was illegal, in any case it's not something that can be decided that easily by lay persons. There's a fair use doctrine, and I think an internet quality scan of the catalog might be covered by it. Not sure though, it's just not clear cut.

I am not sure I understand what is the problem with the tickets. If I understand the issue, it is that people get a maximum of 1 ticket per knife, and then they trade those tickets among themselves, right? What's the big deal? In what way isn't that something that small collectors can't do? I don't see why small collectors are at any more disadvantage than at any other show. In fact, I'd say they're less at a disadvantage.

Joss, it's really simple. The rules are designed to give each of the invitees an equal chance to be drawn for any knife. By trading tickets, the chances are not even, and that's what the rule tries to avoid. Simple as that.

 

[peterinct]

Larry's got to be one of the most talented artist/craftsman out there.
He seems to push each piece to the next level and IMO his sheaths are second to none.
Considering the makers in the room, that's one prestigious ward.

He does do amazing work. That push dagger is incredible!

It was interesting in DDD's book about Mr. Hancock it was mentioned that he and Larry Fuegen are friends and share an interest in cowboy activities.

Peter

 

[betzner]

He does do amazing work. That push dagger is incredible!

It was interesting in DDD's book about Mr. Hancock it was mentioned that he and Larry Fuegen are friends and share an interest in cowboy activities.

Peter

I handled that push dagger. I put my name in drawings for only about 13 knives, and it was one of them. Considering that I don't care for push daggers, that says A LOT about this one!

 

[mrappraisit]

Here are the knives Larry Fuegen had on his table. First his Gentlemen's Bowie and his push dagger.

Marcel

Marcel, the Gentlemen's Bowie and the Art Dagger are just increadible!!!:thumbup: Thank You for the pics.

 

[Joss]

Joss, it's really simple. The rules are designed to give each of the invitees an equal chance to be drawn for any knife. By trading tickets, the chances are not even, and that's what the rule tries to avoid. Simple as that.

Is that so? I mean, trading tickets is actually against the rule? If yes, that obviously clears up everything, I had not understood that was the case.

 

[betzner]

Is that so? I mean, trading tickets is actually against the rule? If yes, that obviously clears up everything, I had not understood that was the case.

Joss, everyone is going to try and find out how to get around the rules. Every invitee gets a book with pre-printed tickets, ie, a ticket for each knife, printed with the invitee's name and number.

The rules state that for a winner to buy the knife, the winner's name and number must match the name and number on the issued badge they are wearing. Seems to me (and I have been told it's so) that this is what they came up with as a means of having fairness in the drawing. If your ticket matches your badge, there you go.

But the big guns just sat around for the first hour ripping out their tickets, trading them and then scratching out each other's pre-printed names and numbers and inserting their own. The whole idea is the ticket should match the buyer, but I guess no one thought about all the scatching out of names and numbers that would take place.

 

[Joss]

What prevents small guys from doing the same thing?

 

[betzner]

What prevents small guys from doing the same thing?

Those who have been going to the show and who know many people, with whom they switched tickets, gain a decided advantage over those who are new to the show and believe the rules are there to be followed, rather than circumvented. It is obvious, Joss.

You sound like some guy from Wall Street trying to figure out the angles. That's not what is supposed to happen.

I am not going to try and nitpick the rules with you. They are designed to give everyone equal opportunity for each knife.

 

[brownshoe]

If the rule has been around awhile, then the purpose is not to assure an equal opportunity for everyone, but to assure the established class gets a leg up over the new. The whole concept of an invitational is NOT to allow equal opportunity, but to limit the ability to buy to a select group.

 

[betzner]

If the rule has been around awhile, then the purpose is not to assure an equal opportunity for everyone, but to assure the established class gets a leg up over the new. The whole concept of an invitational is NOT to allow equal opportunity, but to limit the ability to buy to a select group.

I suppose it pays to be able to read the minds of others relative to purpose and establish your pronouncement accordingly.

However, I am speaking of equal opportunity within the scope of invitees, not the world.