Asking for the 3% PayPal fee

[TheBadGuy]

What do you guys think of sellers that ask for the 3% fees to accept PayPal? I couldn't help but noticed that ALLOT of folks are requesting 3% and some 1.5% to accept that payment method. This is not what you think of PayPal, but the sellers asking for additional fees. Personally I think the sellers should either include the fees into there original price or not accept PayPal what so ever if that fee is going to cut into the revenue from said knife. Besides that fact that asking for that fee is against PayPal's policy, it is also against the law:

Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge"). You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment.

What do you guys think?

 

[Zal]

merchants may not charge a fee

Well, I don't reckon we're merchants; we're just folks selling knives. Unless legally we become a merchant when we sell something to somebody else.

 

[DaveH]

I think they are cheap asses.

OK, if you want to say 3% discount for Money Orders, that I can live with.

 

[Architect]

Zal took the words right out of my mouth.

I don't think of myself as a merchant. I don't have a seller's license in the state of California.

I am a hobbyist - a status which the IRS recognizes.

Also, these laws specifically apply to credit card transactions. Many PayPal transactions are not using credit cards, but rather are coming from PayPal account balances, or are direct transfers from people's personal bank accounts.

So asking for some or all of the PayPal transaction fee to be remunerated as part of the sale is a choice. I am set up on PayPal but I prefer to get money orders instead. Some people prefer the convenience of a PayPal transaction and are willing to pay for it. It allows buyers to pay with their credit card for instance, if they don't have the cash in the bank to pay with a money order or check.

 

[Chief_Wiggum]

Hmmm, I didn't realize that not imposing a fee or surchage was part of Paypal's user agreement.

That being said, I never ask for a fee simply because I prefer receiving money through Paypal, and it allows me to ship knives out sooner.

It does irk me to pay a fee. I think in the future, I'll point out to sellers that it's against Paypal's policy to charge a fee.

Here's the URL with the relevant info. It is part of the User Agreement.

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_payments-outside

 

[TheBadGuy]

You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment.

Merchant or individual, every PayPal user agrees not to impose said charge.

I am with Chief_Wiggum on this one as far as I prefer PayPal as a buyer AND a seller. It's fast and convient for both parties and I don't see passing on a fee for something that I benefit from as well. And if you don't think you benefit from recieving paypal, simply don't accept it. I can tell you 95% of the time I will pass up a purchase in the exchange if they do not accept PayPal.

 

[alphamaniv]

Well, as a 3% charger (most times) here is my take on it. Getting money from an account doesn't cost anything. So no fee, but when selling items, some people want to pay with a credit card, because they don't have enough $$ in their account to buy. To be able to take credit cards, you have to upgrade your account, and then they take 3% of ALL transactions, credit card or account transfer. Obviously, anyone can get and mail a money order if they have cash in hand. If not, then I don't see why I (or anyone else) should lose money on a sale, so that someone else can use their credit card. Now if paypal is the ONLY method of payment accepted by the seller, then I do think they should eat the charges. If it is optional, then I don't see the problem. As far as the agreement goes, I could care less. If we are going to start beating each other over the head with user agreements from all over the web, then it's going to be bad. If you don't want to pay the fee, then send a money order, or if it gripes you that bad, just pass on the purchase. Upping the price and then giving a 3% discount for money orders is just the same thing with different wording. I have had several people use paypal to buy things from me using paypal, and just "forget" to add the 3%. When called on it, they want to say "what's the big deal blah blah" but the shite would hit the fan if I broke 3% of the blade off before shipment. All that verbose bullsh!t to say, if you don't want to pay it, send a MO or contact the seller.Everything is Negotiable. I hope no one mistakes my post as rude, I am just trying to get my point accross with as little explanation as possible, so I left out the sugar coating, but this is too long anyway. Sorry

 

[TheBadGuy]

I know where your coming from Alphamaniv, I just think if you are willing to accept paypal as an imediate form of payment, you should be willing to eat the charges on the item. But you are right about one thing, no one is required to pay the fee or buy anything from anyone. So I guess in the future I will e-mail the seller and offer there asking price minus the 3% out the door, and if they do not accept, then there are pleanty of other knives on my want list to seek out

 

[Architect]

Originally posted by alphamaniv
...Now if paypal is the ONLY method of payment accepted by the seller, then I do think they should eat the charges. If it is optional, then I don't see the problem. As far as the agreement goes, I could care less. If we are going to start beating each other over the head with user agreements from all over the web, then it's going to be bad. If you don't want to pay the fee, then send a money order, or if it gripes you that bad, just pass on the purchase. ..

I think all of the above are good points, especially the web agreement crap. Since when did we need police here on Bladeforums?

FWIW, If PayPal actually did anything about bad sellers, then I would respect their user agreement. In the two transactions that I have had that went bad, all I ever got was a crappy email saying that individuals in consideration did not meet their criteria for further action. I never got an answer to my follow emails.

 

[TheBadGuy]

If PayPal actually did anything about bad sellers

Technically if PayPal proactively went after bad sellers, then everyone asking for those extra fees would have there accounts suspended as well for being in violation of the user agreement.

 

[jsciii]

I have a DEBIT account set up with Paypal. No fee for using it but I cannot accept payment from people who have a CREDIT account with them.

Whenever I sell something I put in the description that I can ONLY accept DEBIT accounts with Paypal. Most times the buyers either use their DEBIT account or a M.O.

I don't upgrade my Paypal account to accept Credit Cards cause I think the 3% SUX. But, if I did then I feel I am assuming the responsibility for paying it. It was MY choice to upgrade so it's not fair to charge buyers (well, I'm sure the fee is imbedded but it least their nose isn't rubbed into it).

So, I think Sellers need to either change their accounts or suck it up.

Also,
I've had to have Paypal reverse charges twice due to a$$hole sellers. Both times it worked out in my favor (i.e., got my money back). So, I have had positive dealings with them and really can't complain.

 

[GigOne]

Willing to take a walk, on a knife that you want, over a seller asking for the 3% outright ?

But yet. . .you'd buy if the seller "secretly" including the 3% in the selling price.

How utterly ridiculous !


And unfortunately I can honestly imagine someone rifling off a e-mail to a seller (who's asking the 3% fee). . . "Dude, I hope you realize that asking for a 3% fee is illegal !"

 

[TheBadGuy]

Originally posted by GigOne
Willing to take a walk, on a knife that you want, over a seller asking for the 3% outright?

But yet . . . you’d buy if the seller "secretly" including the 3% in the selling price.

How utterly ridiculous !


And unfortunately I can honestly imagine someone rifling off a e-mail to a seller (who's asking the 3% fee). . . "Dude, I hope you realize that asking for a 3% fee is illegal !"

Yeap, I would be willing to pass on a knife if the seller didn't want to wave the fee. Like I said, there are plenty of knives on my want list and I have never had my knife fund suffer from lack of choices.

It's about the money. Most knives in my price range $150-$400 would be $4.50 to $12 on a $400 purchase. If that’s too much for the seller to budge, don't accept PayPal or as mentioned above, downgrade your account so you can accept from the balance or Echeck free of charge.

When you purchase goods online through a dealer and pay via credit card, they pay a % on all sales for the convenience of being able to accept that form of payment. When you sign up for PayPal services, you agree to do the same thing and passing on the charges to the buyer in ridicules to me

If a seller accepts PayPal he is doing it for one of two reasons. Either it’s the most convenient payment option for them as they receive immediate funds or they do it b/c it will attract buyers that would not be able to purchase the item by any other means. Either way, the seller is benefiting so why should the buyer have to pay extra for the agreement YOU made with PayPal?

What would you think if online businesses started charging 3% extra for credit card orders? Or perhaps if people tacked on fees when you buy something in the exchange to recoup the $30 from their gold membership?

I have seen a fellow forumite go so far as to ask for 4%, MORE than PayPal even charges "For the convenience of it"

 

[HJK]

I would prefer to not pay a surcharge when I use paypal or a credit card. But I'm not shy about asking for a discount for cash. Is there really a difference?

And I'm not keen of paypal, visa or anyone else dictating terms to people who want to use their services. Do all credit cards and online payment services utilise similar restrictions? If so, there is no free competition and consumers ultimately suffer by having their commissions stay unnaturally high. Prices will reflect that, one way or the other.

I'm for buyer and seller negotiating freely. Go ahead and ask for a 3% surcharge. I probably won't pay it, but it should be your right to ask.

 

[alphamaniv]

I hope this doen't turn ugly. Especially since I like TheBadGuy and have had some dealings with him. Badguy...I'm calling you out These kind of talk are fun though. I never realized there was any resentment(for lack of a better term) over the 3% fee. At least this discussion has gotten me to thinking on this matter and I may very well change my personal policy (see website for details ) regarding the 3% thing. It really doesn't work out to be much anyway. I wonder if you can downgrade your account to lose the fee and just take the account transfers, no credit card? I might look into that. good topic though.

 

[Daniel Koster]

Originally posted by TheBadGuy
What would you think if online businesses started charging 3% extra for credit card orders?

You hit the nail on head, Bro. They DO charge extra for credit card orders.

Have you ever wondered why some stores don't take CCs? (or require a minimum order amount) It's because they pay monster-sized fees to just use VISA in the first place. You'd be naive to think that doesn't get passed onto the customer...

It does.

Plainly put, Paypal is a benefit to both the seller AND the buyer. Both should split the fee equally. A low-volume seller usually can't afford to absorb the impact of the occasional Paypal buyer.

Think of it this way - would you charge somebody 3% extra for paying with cash or check?

Dan

 

[Architect]

posted by The BadGuy

It's about the money. Most knives in my price range $150-$400 would be $4.50 to $12 on a $400 purchase. If that’s too much for the seller to budge, don't accept PayPal or as mentioned above, downgrade your account so you can accept from the balance or Echeck free of charge.

Okay, so I decide to sell my brand new, unused Strider SnG with dimples, tiger-stripe ti, yada yada yada.

I post a price for this mint beauty at $285. If you want to use PayPal, add 3%. For those of you that don't know this model sold from dealers for $400 and were a limited edition. Try and find one now.

You gonna walk on that offer if it is on your want list, BG?

I won't preempt your response by posting the obvious answer.

Remember, in virtually all cases, this forum provides buyers with a chance to purchase knives, factory and custom at far less than the most dirt cheap internet or Ebay discount you can find.

Bottom line - remember the context of this forum - this marketplace is unlike any other.

 

[TheBadGuy]

I hope this doesn’t turn ugly. Especially since I like TheBadGuy and have had some dealings with him. Badguy...I'm calling you out

No worries alphamaniv! I asked b/c I was honestly wondering everyone’s stance on this subject. It hasn't personally effected me in my knife buying crusade and I have never had to pass up a deal b/c of a 3% fee and I honestly can not remember ever added it to the final price before. I noticed that allot of people were asking for the extra money so I expected to have allot of folks reply in support of the fee. But that doesn't change the fact that it’s against Pay Pal’s policy and in some cases against the law not to mention petty. I mean you actually have to upgrade to a Premier or Business account just to accept Credit Card payments, and then want the buyer to pay your dues?

I see some folks in the custom exchange asking for that 3% regardless of how many $50 price reductions they do to try to sell their piece.

Have you ever wondered why some stores don't take CCs? (Or require a minimum order amount)

I honestly do not believe you can run a successful business online now a days without accepting credit cards. I have never seen too many that do not. And I am sure if I e-mail New Graham knives for example and ask to pay via Money order that they are not going to knock off the percentage since they do not incur the processing fees.

Think of it this way - would you charge somebody 3% extra for paying with cash or check?

I would have to charge somebody 4% to take a check hence I do not accept them. I live about 35 miles from my bank and unless I had business there for another reason, I cash personal checks and non US Postal money orders at a local check cash place, where they charge me 4% + $1.50 fee. It's convenient for me, so I agree to pay the fee.

Everyone can charge what ever they want; I am just curious how everyone feels about it. Thanks

 

[TheBadGuy]

I post a price for this mint beauty at $285. If you want to use PayPal, add 3%. For those of you that don't know this model sold from dealers for $400 and were a limited edition. Try and find one now.

If I REALLY wanted the knife and it was well below cost, I would send a Postal Money Order for it but I would not pay THEIR paypal fees.

 

[not2sharp]

We are discussing semantics here. I usually ask for a 3% fee when if it is going through Paypal. If you prefer I'll simply increase your price by 3% and remove the paypal fee. The only reason the price isn't bulked up is because it would be unfair to anyone using cash or a money order. But, if you have stock in Paypal and want to disguise the fact that paypal is cutting themselves in for 3% of our transaction, I understand.

n2s