Asking for the 3% PayPal fee

[The Deacon]

Well, here my two cents on this one. I'm basically just a buyer, have not sold anything yet, probably never will. I don't haggle price, if a deal looks good, I offer what the seller is asking, if not, I move on. Can't think of one I've seen that piqued my interest where the PayPal fee was a deal breaker. On the contrary, I feel a private seller who offers PayPal as the preferred or an acceptable method of payment is doing me a favor. I rarely keep much extra cash laying around, so paying by money order usually means a trip to the ATM, that's a buck (at least) right there. Then on to the Post Office, ninety cents for the MO fee and, since I want the knife ASAP, four thirty for postage, because I'm still pretty new around here and don't expect anyone to send me a knife before they have payment in hand (a couple have, an I thank them for their trust, but it's not something I expect). Thats over six bucks, plus my time. Heck, on any knife under 200 bucks, I'm saving money paying a 3% PayPal fee and I've yet to spend over that, or even close to it on a knife, most of my purchases are under a hundred. It's become so automatic for me, I tack it on even if the seller doesn't specify it. It's my way of saying thanks for making my life a little easier. I figure, why should they have to increase their expense on the transaction to accomodate me.

 

[Starfish]

Originally posted by Keith Montgomery
Thanks Jason.

So I guess there shouldn't even need to be a discussion about this. If it is against the rules set forth by Paypal then people should not be doing it, plain and simple.

Originally posted by baraqyal
The seller agreed specifically not to impose a surcharge in the TOS of paypal. Doing so violates the TOS. It also violates California law (Civil code section 1748.1), and probably other state's laws as well.

I think you guys need to take a trip over to the Automatic forum and take a stand against sale of autos across state and national lines to non-qualified buyers.

While you're at it, head over to the Balisong forum, and take a stand against importation of prohibited weapons across state and national lines.

And baraqyal, if I recall correctly, you live in the great state of Kalifornia, where the simple act of living violates several California laws at any given moment.

I don't begrudge some of the other points that have been made against charging PayPal fees, but please, let's not start getting into the fine print, of all things, a PayPal user agreement. This is BFC, not eBay.

Let's keep it simple, and remember that we're doing this for the fun and enjoyment that comes with a hobby on the cutting edge.

Matthew

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Originally posted by Starfish
I don't begrudge some of the other points that have been made against charging PayPal fees, but please, let's not start getting into the fine print, of all things, a PayPal user agreement.

Matthew

Why not? After all, isn't that the part of what this whole thread is about?

I run a retail store. We are not allowed to add a surcharge for people that want to use credit cards and we don't. I would consider it unethical to do so.

 

[Starfish]

Originally posted by Keith Montgomery
Why not? After all, isn't that the part of what this whole thread is about?

I run a retail store. We are not allowed to add a surcharge for people that want to use credit cards and we don't. I would consider it unethical to do so.

First off, my apologies to Keith and Baraqyal - rereading my post, I think I may have come across as specifically attacking you two, and didn't mean to do so. Yours were just the most recent quotes in this thread.

You're right, of course, that the PayPal user agreement is where this thread has gone. I should have been more clear, and stated what I really feel: that it is a sad thing to watch BFC members talk about the fine print of the PayPal user agreement and call for all other BFC members to abide by those rules lest they be considered no better than unethical charlatans of the lowest rank.

I guess I'm just getting a little tired of seeing people quibble and look for formal guidelines on conducting transactions between members here on BFC. If we keep this up, we'll no longer have the strength of a shared passion to guide our transactions and then where will we be? (Hint - BFCBay).

Matthew

 

[Keith Montgomery]

It is my opinion that most people do not even realize that there is such a rule as this as far as Paypal is concerned. It was something that I did not know until reading this thread. Personally, I would hope that someone that knew of this regulation would not disregard it.

 

[Greg Jones]

Originally posted by baraqyal
It also violates California law (Civil code section 1748.1), and probably other state's laws as well.
-- Rob

There is no question that tacking on a transaction fee is against PP regulations, but I cannot see how it possibly violates any state laws. A PP seller is not accepting any funds from a credit card-he/she is accepting funds from a service provider. PayPal is the one that accepts credit cards and PayPal must follow the federal and state laws with respect to credit card fees.

 

[baraqyal]

Originally posted by Greg Jones
There is no question that tacking on a transaction fee is against PP regulations, but I cannot see how it possibly violates any state laws. A PP seller is not accepting any funds from a credit card-he/she is accepting funds from a service provider. PayPal is the one that accepts credit cards and PayPal must follow the federal and state laws with respect to credit card fees.

That argument doesn't exactly hold water, as all merchants that I know of use a third party to process credit cards, and accept payment from that third party.

Besides, under the law, a "retailer" is anyone who offers products or services after being presented with a credit card. (See definition of retailer in previous post.)

Paypal is just the process used to accept the credit card - it is not the "retailer" under the law.

-- Rob

 

[baraqyal]

Originally posted by Starfish
And baraqyal, if I recall correctly, you live in the great state of Kalifornia, where the simple act of living violates several California laws at any given moment.

I'm afraid I do live in Kalifornia. And yes, some of the laws here are bad. Very, very bad. But, that doesn't mean that I disagree with all of them.

I guess I'm just getting a little tired of seeing people quibble and look for formal guidelines on conducting transactions between members here on BFC. If we keep this up, we'll no longer have the strength of a shared passion to guide our transactions and then where will we be? (Hint - BFCBay).

It's not about quibling. It's about behaving ethically. Sometimes it's not completely clear when someone is making a mistake. The point of threads like these are not to set down the rules in stone, but to correct mistakes and prevent them from happening again in the future.

This issue seems pretty cut and dried to me. It's against the rules and actual laws to add a surcharge to a paypal transaction.

So, accept paypal and be prepared as the seller to pay the 3% fee. Don't accept paypal, and don't worry about it.

Simple.

-- Rob

 

[Greg Jones]

I still disagree. The seller that uses PayPal is never presented a credit card for processing; the seller is accepting payment from PayPal and the source of funding through PayPal may be a credit card, a debit card, an e-check, a direct bank withdraw, etc. Unlike a retail merchant that actually must process a credit card number to complete a transaction, the PayPal seller may never know what the original source of funding is.

Originally posted by baraqyal
That argument doesn't exactly hold water, as all merchants that I know of use a third party to process credit cards, and accept payment from that third party.

Besides, under the law, a "retailer" is anyone who offers products or services after being presented with a credit card. (See definition of retailer in previous post.)

Paypal is just the process used to accept the credit card - it is not the "retailer" under the law.

-- Rob

 

[TheBadGuy]

Greg,

I would have to say that ALL of the online retailers are also not presented with a credit card, but the company to which they have a merchant account with. And they are also not aware of they are using a debit card or credit card. PayPal is just an easily obtained merchant account for individuals. I see no difference between the two personally.

 

[Hypocycloid]