Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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- Apr 6, 2000
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I believe he meant "esthetically".
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Attn those who make or buy liner locks
- Thread starter the possum
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Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
My spelling is excellent. I spell so well, I am able to invent mai oun supirir speling sistemz. 
I understand Shakespeare rarely bothered to spell his own name the same way twice in a row. But sometimes it helps to approximate the standard form of the word!
I understand Shakespeare rarely bothered to spell his own name the same way twice in a row. But sometimes it helps to approximate the standard form of the word!
- Joined
- Dec 10, 1998
- Messages
- 4,860
George,
First I have been progressing as an art folder maker rather steadily within the past few months. I did not belittle anyone in my post, I just stated that the buyer should be aware of what they are buying, from who and not buy a hog in a bag! I also said that for a maker with a MS rating he should know how to build a knife correctly, apparently he does not. He should to stick to forging and not to folder making!
You commented on the automatic that I had at the NCCA show, which one, I had 6?? They all had the "money Click" and it is more difficult to make an automatic knife that won't self destruct than one with "snap" So for the first 6 that I have made I think that I am doing quite well. When you venture into folders you will see how many problems you can run into, then add a spring!!
I have never said that my knives are as good as McHenry's or Dailey's, but for my age, and quality of knife I am making I think I am doing one hell of a job. Everyone needs a goal and mine is to make as good a knife as Bill. You cannot compare me to Potter, he makes a different type of knife and there a few that are coming back to him for repair- I have never had a knife come back for repair!!
First I have been progressing as an art folder maker rather steadily within the past few months. I did not belittle anyone in my post, I just stated that the buyer should be aware of what they are buying, from who and not buy a hog in a bag! I also said that for a maker with a MS rating he should know how to build a knife correctly, apparently he does not. He should to stick to forging and not to folder making!
You commented on the automatic that I had at the NCCA show, which one, I had 6?? They all had the "money Click" and it is more difficult to make an automatic knife that won't self destruct than one with "snap" So for the first 6 that I have made I think that I am doing quite well. When you venture into folders you will see how many problems you can run into, then add a spring!!
I have never said that my knives are as good as McHenry's or Dailey's, but for my age, and quality of knife I am making I think I am doing one hell of a job. Everyone needs a goal and mine is to make as good a knife as Bill. You cannot compare me to Potter, he makes a different type of knife and there a few that are coming back to him for repair- I have never had a knife come back for repair!!
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- Mar 28, 2001
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- 4,649
While I understand camaraderie amongst knife makers (or people of any profession), I think one of the problems with the industry as a whole is that people are afraid to say anything bad about a maker for fear of being slammed or "black listed".
I have had folders (in most cases more than one) from nearly every "top 10" tactical knife maker in the industry and can count on two fingers the makers who always met or exceeded my expectations. (FWIW Peter Marzitelli and Mike Obenauf)
Pick a maker with folders under $600 and I have probably owned one from them that I was not satisfied with. It's kind of why I went back to productions and semi customs in folders - too much inconsistency from the makers.
That's why I typically only buy from dealers with a Liberal return policy. I even have one dealer who will send me a selection of up 8 or 10 custom knives to look over, I can keep and pay for the ones I like and send the rest back no questions asked. That's why it's good to have a nice relationship with dealers.
I think it takes balls for any maker selling a product to take a stand one way or another for a hot topic and I respect that. But I also think everyone who is a fan of knives has to be the judge of what they take a stand on, blanket statements just scare people away all together and I think we all want to see the industry grow.
Possum, FWIW I think you did right by telling people this makers name, you were poorly treated and thats what this forum is for.
My reference to your knife making skills were regarding your statement about tapping into Titanium. A properly drilled and tapped hole in Ti will out perform one in steel every day of the week. The key there is properly, my guess is the holes in your knife were probably drilled oversized and then tapped with the proper size which will not provide the proper thread depth and thus tear out easily and/or offer little resistance to tightening. I would also question anyone using Super Glue on a screw but to each his own, try using Epoxy if it gets that bad, at least it will fill voids and harden to be a relatively strong fixture. As for blade play and the lock fully covering the tang, throw in a stop pin thats about .015 or so bigger and it will draw the lock back over, then file it back to proper geometry if needed.
Please post pictures of your knives in The Gallery, they sound cool and I would love to see them.
Fine Print
This post has been fully spell checked using Microsoft Word 2002 and cross referenced at www.dictionary.com to avoid potential repercussion.
I have had folders (in most cases more than one) from nearly every "top 10" tactical knife maker in the industry and can count on two fingers the makers who always met or exceeded my expectations. (FWIW Peter Marzitelli and Mike Obenauf)
Pick a maker with folders under $600 and I have probably owned one from them that I was not satisfied with. It's kind of why I went back to productions and semi customs in folders - too much inconsistency from the makers.
That's why I typically only buy from dealers with a Liberal return policy. I even have one dealer who will send me a selection of up 8 or 10 custom knives to look over, I can keep and pay for the ones I like and send the rest back no questions asked. That's why it's good to have a nice relationship with dealers.
I think it takes balls for any maker selling a product to take a stand one way or another for a hot topic and I respect that. But I also think everyone who is a fan of knives has to be the judge of what they take a stand on, blanket statements just scare people away all together and I think we all want to see the industry grow.
Possum, FWIW I think you did right by telling people this makers name, you were poorly treated and thats what this forum is for.
My reference to your knife making skills were regarding your statement about tapping into Titanium. A properly drilled and tapped hole in Ti will out perform one in steel every day of the week. The key there is properly, my guess is the holes in your knife were probably drilled oversized and then tapped with the proper size which will not provide the proper thread depth and thus tear out easily and/or offer little resistance to tightening. I would also question anyone using Super Glue on a screw but to each his own, try using Epoxy if it gets that bad, at least it will fill voids and harden to be a relatively strong fixture. As for blade play and the lock fully covering the tang, throw in a stop pin thats about .015 or so bigger and it will draw the lock back over, then file it back to proper geometry if needed.
Please post pictures of your knives in The Gallery, they sound cool and I would love to see them.
Fine Print
This post has been fully spell checked using Microsoft Word 2002 and cross referenced at www.dictionary.com to avoid potential repercussion.
Originally posted by cpirtle
Fine Print
This post has been fully spell checked using Microsoft Word 2002 and cross referenced at www.dictionary.com to avoid potential repercussion.
OH YEAH!!! Well according to Word 2002, Marzitelli is mispelled you bastid!!!!!!!
- Joined
- Feb 15, 1999
- Messages
- 11,566
Well, the-bad-guy that makes me laugh to begin with. You come on up and I show you a bad guy. And yes you should of keep your F'ing mouth shut and I will shut it for you.
Chunky, you have to learn to keep your mouth shut. You make comments about other makers to make our self look better. At the end off the NCCA show you made comments about other makers when the show was still open and it was over hear by attendees.
You have done this a number of times, not only in front of me but other members of your club.
" That their work was just OK", meaning Dailey and Potter. If you do not recall I am sure other members that where with me at the time will enlighten you.
Another statemnt you made when you where at my shop, (quato)"I'll show you how to make folders, but I do not expect any competition".
In other word your attitude sucks, you have to learn to be more tactful. I wish you could come to this weekends hammer in, because we will be having a NECKA meeting at the same time and I would like to review this issuses with you, one on one.
Chunky, you have to learn to keep your mouth shut. You make comments about other makers to make our self look better. At the end off the NCCA show you made comments about other makers when the show was still open and it was over hear by attendees.
You have done this a number of times, not only in front of me but other members of your club.
" That their work was just OK", meaning Dailey and Potter. If you do not recall I am sure other members that where with me at the time will enlighten you.
Another statemnt you made when you where at my shop, (quato)"I'll show you how to make folders, but I do not expect any competition".
In other word your attitude sucks, you have to learn to be more tactful. I wish you could come to this weekends hammer in, because we will be having a NECKA meeting at the same time and I would like to review this issuses with you, one on one.
Are you kidding me??? Or are you kidding yourself?? Go sober up buddy before you say anything else you'll regret. I didn't know you were the King of knives around here and you decide what can and can't be said. I will say what ever I want. You are obviously a jerk and your opinion means less to me by the second
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 76,041
Indian George, this is "The Good, the Bad, the Ugly" -- but your posts are getting too ugly even for this forum. This website has a rule against personal attacks. Please try to keep it within reasonable bounds.
well another pass the pop corn please.
I've been in business a lot of years. dealing with all kinds
and I truly believe, you should go face to face with your problem not air out someone's laundry
before you know what's what.
1 ST this was a 2nd hand knife just how bad was it treated before
it was received ? just maybe the one you bought it from took you on a ride. should he have sold it to you if it was that bad??
2 nd you said his Mother is ill how much time does he have
and problems. yes it's wrong to promise something you can't deliver.
if this happened
3 rd it's said he's not making much anymore. it could be that he's on the outs I don't know
and to just guess why then bash the Sheet out of him well please don't buy a knife from me.
I don't need a bad rep from the unknowing and un-informed.
if we don't tend to business be assured
that we will weed our selves out
with out bashings from third hand info. lawyers have a term for it...and I
hope if one doesn't know the term
that a lawyer doesn't get the occasion to tell him what it is..their making a good living out of these things.
I for one sell on the net with a lot of repeat business this tells me I'm
doing ok in it's self
I don't and won't brag my self up, I don't want to and don't feel I have to..
I agree and disagree about a lot of what's being said here.
but hear say has a way of growing into a monster
and will bite you in the ass
I'd want you to look at my work and judge it not take my word for it.
the big talker will bring themselves down and the little know will have a
hard time selling.
you do have to be sure of your work and convey that, in turn I'm not a car dealer
so i won't sell like one.
I've been in the automotive and small engine business long enough to
know that
I have no respect for the guy that will cut your throat to get your
business I just won't deal with him.
what one says,,, tells me what kind of a guy or gal they are. the customer
is not always right I'm afraid to say either,
go ahead and tell me what you think and I will consider to myself if I would
do business with you or not..
keep in mind this is not directed to anyone of you here it's
just what I'm observing and my 2 cents.
I hope it enlightens more than offends.
Cougar if i'm out of place here please let me know.
I've been in business a lot of years. dealing with all kinds
and I truly believe, you should go face to face with your problem not air out someone's laundry
before you know what's what.
1 ST this was a 2nd hand knife just how bad was it treated before
it was received ? just maybe the one you bought it from took you on a ride. should he have sold it to you if it was that bad??
2 nd you said his Mother is ill how much time does he have
and problems. yes it's wrong to promise something you can't deliver.
if this happened
3 rd it's said he's not making much anymore. it could be that he's on the outs I don't know
and to just guess why then bash the Sheet out of him well please don't buy a knife from me.
I don't need a bad rep from the unknowing and un-informed.
if we don't tend to business be assured
that we will weed our selves out
with out bashings from third hand info. lawyers have a term for it...and I
hope if one doesn't know the term
that a lawyer doesn't get the occasion to tell him what it is..their making a good living out of these things.
I for one sell on the net with a lot of repeat business this tells me I'm
doing ok in it's self
I don't and won't brag my self up, I don't want to and don't feel I have to..
I agree and disagree about a lot of what's being said here.
but hear say has a way of growing into a monster
and will bite you in the ass
I'd want you to look at my work and judge it not take my word for it.
the big talker will bring themselves down and the little know will have a
hard time selling.
you do have to be sure of your work and convey that, in turn I'm not a car dealer
so i won't sell like one.
I've been in the automotive and small engine business long enough to
know that
I have no respect for the guy that will cut your throat to get your
business I just won't deal with him.
what one says,,, tells me what kind of a guy or gal they are. the customer
is not always right I'm afraid to say either,
go ahead and tell me what you think and I will consider to myself if I would
do business with you or not..
keep in mind this is not directed to anyone of you here it's
just what I'm observing and my 2 cents.
I hope it enlightens more than offends.
Cougar if i'm out of place here please let me know.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 1999
- Messages
- 11,566
First of all TBG, I do make knives, do you??? I am not the King of Knives but I am the President of the New England Custom Knife Association what are you??? Have you ever made a knife??? I am sure I can judge quality of a knife far better than you can. I have had my knives in Blade, Tactical Knives and Knife World what have you done?? If I am a jerk, I guess the others members of NECKA may not think so
- Joined
- Dec 10, 1998
- Messages
- 4,860
Wow! I thought that this was an open forum and I could voice my opinion, now it has turned into a shouting match.
George I have never said anything bad about other makers knives, I have never said to another maker your knife sucks! I might have said that I would have done something on the knife differently, or that their style of knife was not to my particular taste. Or that it should be made the right way which would justify the asking price. Why pay too much for a knife not built correctly. It would be like buying an Indian motorcycle that had a defective clutch. It might work ok at first but it gets worse everytime you ride it, eventually it dosen't work. Maybe it should have been checked out before it was bought. Same as the pivot on a knife, it's what makes it work.
George you left the last NCCA show before it ended, I know because Rene Roy and I made a deal on some damascus and then we left, the show was empty!! Other members were there, ok let them recall what was said 16 days ago! Ask Joe if I critized his knives? Or your knives even!! I don't know where this is coming from but it is totally unwarranted and unprovoked. Who made you Judge and Jury when it comes to knives!!
George I have never said anything bad about other makers knives, I have never said to another maker your knife sucks! I might have said that I would have done something on the knife differently, or that their style of knife was not to my particular taste. Or that it should be made the right way which would justify the asking price. Why pay too much for a knife not built correctly. It would be like buying an Indian motorcycle that had a defective clutch. It might work ok at first but it gets worse everytime you ride it, eventually it dosen't work. Maybe it should have been checked out before it was bought. Same as the pivot on a knife, it's what makes it work.
George you left the last NCCA show before it ended, I know because Rene Roy and I made a deal on some damascus and then we left, the show was empty!! Other members were there, ok let them recall what was said 16 days ago! Ask Joe if I critized his knives? Or your knives even!! I don't know where this is coming from but it is totally unwarranted and unprovoked. Who made you Judge and Jury when it comes to knives!!
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2001
- Messages
- 974
W O W !!! I've never even heard of 'indian george' and I've NEVER heard a knife maker talk to the general public like he just did. Thanks for saving me some money Mr.indian george! You can bet I'll never buy a knife with your name on it!
I am a member of Blade Forums and a Knife Collector. I think that gives me every right to read and post in this forum. Am I wrong???? As for you being a jerk, I posted some observations taken from your own words and asked some questions. Now go read your reply and tell me what you think.
- Joined
- Oct 6, 1998
- Messages
- 2,300
Damn, and all I planned to do was sit and eat my popcorn
Guys, lighten up some. This is a serious issue and it doesn't need to get locked.
Possum, what happened to you sucks, no doubt. Thanks for naming names. I would imagine more than one of us was scratching our heads wondering who it was. FWIW, of the thousands of folders I've made, I don't think I've ever had a screw strip out of titanium. Busted off alot of screw heads tightening them, though.
Chad, I didn't make your short list, but that's okay. MikeO did and that means even more Peter makes a hell of a fine folder also.
Indian, I couldn't agree with you more, but, your tact could be a little better, but, I couldn't agree with you more
Chuck, saying that you have never had a knife returned is not a major accomplishment. Art type damascus folders get lightly handled and opened a few times. Make a bunch of hard working folders and put them into the hands of guys that use them and see what happens.
I'm seeing a trend here and it all goes back to the "I'm appalled" thread, last year.
Bad guy, yea, you prolly should have kept your mouth shut, but, what the hey
Cougar, I knew you were hiding out there somewhere
Wow. Longest post I've done in awhile.
Back to the popcorn and hopefully the medications will start wearing off soon
Guys, lighten up some. This is a serious issue and it doesn't need to get locked.
Possum, what happened to you sucks, no doubt. Thanks for naming names. I would imagine more than one of us was scratching our heads wondering who it was. FWIW, of the thousands of folders I've made, I don't think I've ever had a screw strip out of titanium. Busted off alot of screw heads tightening them, though.
Chad, I didn't make your short list, but that's okay. MikeO did and that means even more
Peter makes a hell of a fine folder also.Indian, I couldn't agree with you more, but, your tact could be a little better, but, I couldn't agree with you more
Chuck, saying that you have never had a knife returned is not a major accomplishment. Art type damascus folders get lightly handled and opened a few times. Make a bunch of hard working folders and put them into the hands of guys that use them and see what happens.
I'm seeing a trend here and it all goes back to the "I'm appalled" thread, last year.
Bad guy, yea, you prolly should have kept your mouth shut, but, what the hey
Cougar, I knew you were hiding out there somewhere
Wow. Longest post I've done in awhile.
Back to the popcorn and hopefully the medications will start wearing off soon
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
Yahhh, when I read him telling The Bad Guy to shut up I thought he was Jacques Chirac talking to the new European Union candidates Well, I know someone always knows more than I do, but there is only One who knows more than all of us, and George, you may be some kind of President, but you ain't God. This is Bladeforums, and it's for the knife knuts, not just the knifemakers. If our opinions are unwelcome, our money goes somewhere else, too. The Good, The Bad, The Ugly is for opinions, pro and con, better and worse, but "shut up" In a pig's eye ...
Well, I know someone always knows more than I do, but there is only One who knows more than all of us, and George, you may be some kind of President, but you ain't God. This is Bladeforums, and it's for the knife knuts, not just the knifemakers. If our opinions are unwelcome, our money goes somewhere else, too. The Good, The Bad, The Ugly is for opinions, pro and con, better and worse, but "shut up" In a pig's eye ...
- Joined
- Dec 10, 1998
- Messages
- 4,860
Kit,
I do understand about art knives being lightly fondled, but put a spring in it and it becomes self destructive on it's own.
George, I would also like to say for the record that at the last NCCA show I had an automatic collector/dealer pick up my persian automatic and ask me if it was a McHenry! It was the one without the snap cause I had not finished it and it was just for show.
I also had J.D. Smith, ABS mastersmith and member of the Knifemakers Guild say that I was doing an excellennt job and that my knives get better every time he sees them.
I do understand about art knives being lightly fondled, but put a spring in it and it becomes self destructive on it's own.
George, I would also like to say for the record that at the last NCCA show I had an automatic collector/dealer pick up my persian automatic and ask me if it was a McHenry! It was the one without the snap cause I had not finished it and it was just for show.
I also had J.D. Smith, ABS mastersmith and member of the Knifemakers Guild say that I was doing an excellennt job and that my knives get better every time he sees them.
IMO
Chuck I really don't agree with you
I have an auto I bought in Germany
around 1974 and I like using it, a lot, it is tight still with a heavy spring to boot it..so it can be done sorry to say but true...
and it's built as a user..
it takes a beating and keep on ticking
as you said yourself it has to be made right.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 1998
- Messages
- 4,860
Dan,
Yes the oldies can be goodies. Is it a pin together knife? Pins don't come loose from the force of the blade opening. I am talking about screw together knives, screws can come loose even with loctite, that's why I also use hardened dowel pins! There are some makers that only use screws and that's why their knives have problems. They also don't harden their pivots.
Yes the oldies can be goodies. Is it a pin together knife? Pins don't come loose from the force of the blade opening. I am talking about screw together knives, screws can come loose even with loctite, that's why I also use hardened dowel pins! There are some makers that only use screws and that's why their knives have problems. They also don't harden their pivots.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2001
- Messages
- 4,649
Originally posted by Kit Carson
Chad, I didn't make your short list, but that's okay. MikeO did and that means even more
Kit, I thought Mike O was your alter ego
If it means anything to you, your knives and one other un-named maker would share spot 3...
(and I've owned at least 7 of your folders so that's a good sampling, only surpassed by Mike with 10)
One thing I can tell you all, and most of us consumers will know this, a huge majority of people will not go back to a maker for fear of ruining the relationship or offending him. People are always hesitant to call a maker on errors. And look at the shitstorm that ensues any time a makers skills are called into question publicly...