Attn those who make or buy liner locks

Chad,
Alter ego? Nope, MikeO is a real guy and a son in law that I'm proud of. Maybe it's my age or position in life but accepting critisism is not a big thing with me. Long as I make it right, I can deal with it.

Chuck, I have built a few autos :) All were working knives, held together with screws. I'll post a picture when I figure out how to with this new software.
 
Originally posted by cpirtle
One thing I can tell you all, and most of us consumers will know this, a huge majority of people will not go back to a maker for fear of ruining the relationship or offending him. People are always hesitant to call a maker on errors. And look at the shitstorm that ensues any time a makers skills are called into question publicly...
Click to expand...

Kit, this part of my post was not directed to you, just wanted to keep on topic with the rest of the thread. When I needed screws for my F4 I contacted you and you had them in my hands in about 4 days ;)
 
It's not your fault this time, Kit -- the forum is not accepting images right now, not even if you ask it nicely. Spark is working on it.
 
The bottom line is that Possum had a serious problem that took way too long to get fixed. That sucked.
Keith said it right, early in this thread (I don't do the quote thingee well) but you can look back.
If you make it, someone is gonna break it. Stand behind your product and do what it takes to make it right.
 
and once again Mr. Carson nails the answer!!!!!!!!!

and What's up with you Indian George? Not to long ago you and chuck were 'friends". You gentlemen have a falling out and now making it public? You were singing Chuck's praises not to long ago!!!!!

For the record I have been to the New England show and seen Chuck's work first hand. pretty amazing stuff for someone as young as he. Pretty clear you have an 'agenda', what's up with that?

And when you make your first folder Indian George, please keep in mind that IF should you sell it and the customer finds something wrong that you remain as responsive as Chuck is in rectifying problems with the finished product..............

Please do not beat me up now:rolleyes:
 
Thanks Ira.
And Kit you are completely correct, stand behind your work.

If a knife comes back to you on monday, stop what you are doing, fix it and have it back out on tuesday. That is what I have always been told. You have to keep happy customers.
 
chuck
that one is pinned and Kit is right as rain.
I will say, you can make screws not loosen up
I've worked with and have been a dealer of the top of the line
chain saws
and with the vibration they go through and still hold up. well
it can be done..if you use the screw to tighten and adjust
yes you're right
in many cases you can have problems, you have class A fitted screws
and class B fits just to mention fits.
That Folder I showed you at the NCCA show had been from my prototype
I carried for a long time and I still am carrying it and using it.
there's a lot more to what I've done for testing it then I care to write..but
the pivot is shielded ball bearings with a screw type pin that is cut to the exact
length so you can tighten it tight, if it should loosen from wear
1 I provide a fix for it that anyone can do
2 just replace the Washers and or bearing if needed.
3 send her back for a tune-up if needed.

the customer can have Teflon washers, Mylar, or Nylatron I have all three
here in sheets, the customer can pick what he wants if he wants to choose
it takes far longer for a washer to wear out than a bad fit on a screw and pin to cause problems
and yes I use hardened dowel pins where needed..
I love happy customers they're 10 times harder to get then to keep..keeping them is easy,
just keep them happy..:) :)
 
That's just the thing Dan, I know guys who do use the screws to adjust. They don't keep everything flat, parallel or perpendicular. They use the screws to align everything to get it to work right. If one of the screws loosens a part can move and the whole knife goes out of whack.

This shread has gotten way off subject. I don't know how it turned sour, it was off to a god start and then went south. Lets get back on track.
 
Originally posted by striper28
That's just the thing Dan, I know guys who do use the screws to adjust. They don't keep everything flat, parallel or perpendicular. They use the screws to align everything to get it to work right. If one of the screws loosens a part can move and the whole knife goes out of whack.

This shread has gotten way off subject. I don't know how it turned sour, it was off to a god start and then went south. Lets get back on track.
Click to expand...

I put 15 screws in the one I showed you. 19 in the 2 bolster jobs.
4 with 82 deg tapers these will keep it aligned. at least mine..

Chuck
You're missing what's happened here in two threads you are in.

I had said I would not put other makers work down ...but I will give
pointers IF asked for, if I can be of help..
To give names then to whack them, not knowing the full
details for the situation is just plain wrong within our circle,
if it needs doing let the buyers do it
it's their right, their money.
We as makers are on a learning curve (always) and if you
I or anyone thinks
they are at the top of (not their game) {THE game}, well ( i Think ) they are full of it..
and not being realistic.
for an example
I could give you advice but would you like it given
to you if you didn't ask for it?
like saying,, if it were me I'd do it this way, the right way
what is the right way??? your way, his way,
the guy down the road,, the proven with time way???

you may not mind this done to you, but by trying to being
diplomatic, you should be a where
that some guys get offended by this.
more than you obviously know.. all makers could tell us in the
forums why their knives are better than the other
if only just to promote their knives but as you see they don't
they do give tips if asked for through the posts.
Chuck If your up for some constructive criticism in business practice and My opinions
I'd like to do it in private with you..I've been down the cut throat path in other Businesses

I love the Knife business because it's not that way normally
and I'll like to see it kept that way..
not a food fight..pass the pop corn please don't throw it...
 
Dan,

All I said in my original post in this thread was that they buyer should be edcuated on what they are buying. You don't buy a used car without it being inspected so why buy a knife that dosen't work right.

Are customers supposed to learn what makes a knife good or bad as they go and have to pay ($$$) for their mistakes? At the blade show Les Robertson gives a seminar on custom knife collecting and what to look for in a good knife. I just want people to make the best knife they can, it will justify the price they get for it and it will raise the bar. Other makers will have to make a better knife for the same money. By better I mean fit and finish and mechanical function.

I am not saying that there is only one way, and I am not saying that my way is the right or best way. I am also not saying that I have stoped learning, I learn something new with each knife I make. If you ask 6 guys how to make peanut butter & Jelly sandwiches you will get 6 different methods. All get the same end result.

I have never put my knives above anyone elses. There are plenty of guys out there who make just as good or better knives. I didn't put any other makers knives down, I said maybe they need fixing once in a while, everything does eventually.

When I comment on another makers knives like McHenry I do it with the highest level of respect. Since I believe his knives are of the highest quality I use them for the basis for my comparison, a standard if you will. It is a goal of mine to make a knife that can even slightly rival one of his. But it gives me something to shoot for and makes it a challenge to rise to that standard. If we don't have a goal to reach we just plateau and continue to do the same thing. I have been making knives long enough to be able to make an observation about someone else's knives and the quality of their work without becoming the target of an unprovoked attack.

I have never just come up to a maker and say make your knives this way, or why don't you make them this way? I ask and say how did you do this? Did you ever think to try it this way, or this way? Most of the time we come up with an even better way for the both of us.

Just a few thoughts.
Got any butter for that popcorn?
 
Two years is about 18 months too long for a repair.

I have never had a problem approaching the maker with a question regarding the performance of a knife. I had this discussion with a few people here on the forums. I simply do not buy into the "put the custom maker on a pedestal" attitude that I see here too often. The maker puts out a product. I pay my money for it. I expect it to be a quality item. I don't have money to throw away on inferior products. I am a "tough customer". I also believe you should get what you pay for. To me, a knife is a very tangible item. One I can hold and use and enjoy. I do not pay for esoteric things like "the hand of the maker". I could care less who makes the damn thing as long as it is their best effort. Looks are not as important to me as mechanical reliability.

I have gotten 100% satisfaction with any custom maker I have dealt with on a repair of their knife. IMO, most of the good ones want to know if there is a problem and fix it. Who wants a POS floating around giving the maker a "black eye"?

For many of the same reasons stated above (thanks Chad (cpirtle) I have gone back to factory made knives and veered away from linerlocks altogether. There is simply too much variation from knife to knife, even knives from the same maker. I looked at 12 knives from the same maker at one show I went to and only one of the bunch had a satisfactory lock-up on it IMO. Several other high dollar customs had excessive blade wobble or the liner shot straight across the tang to the right. The only custom knife I saw at that show that I would have paid money for was a Greg Lightfoot 458 Magnum; absolutely flawless (no, I don't know Greg and I can't afford one of his knives).

For the record, I currently own a Sebenza, a Cuda Maxx, a few Spyderco's, an R.W. Clark fixed blade and am waiting on a custom from Charles Marlowe. Charles is a great guy to work with, very friendly and answers all questions via email. The other maker who is simply "the best" with customer service is Darrel Ralph. Hell, I never did buy a knife from Darrel and yet we still correspond occasionally.

These are simply my opinions, and nothing is set in stone. Just thought I'd throw my experience into the ring, as it may help someone else in their quest for the "perfect one".

Posts like this only appear when a) an inferior product escapes from the shop, b) the maker is remiss in repairing the problem and c)poor communication inevitably upsets the customer.

Sincerely,
Leo Gilbert
 
As for Randall gilbreath, I had a similar experience with him several years ago. He had more excuses than OJ simpson.

As far as "Indian George".
I have had my knives in Blade, Tactical Knives and Knife World what have you done??
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George, getting a picture printed in a magazine is not something to brag about. When you get a custom maker profile/article in any of those magazines, let us know.

Anthony Lombardo
Editorial Contributor
Tactical Knives Magazine
 
Originally posted by indian george
Well, the-bad-guy that makes me laugh to begin with. You come on up and I show you a bad guy. And yes you should of keep your F'ing mouth shut and I will shut it for you.
Chunky, you have to learn to keep your mouth shut.

The President of NECKA speaks to people like this? He must be a pretty bad dude!

I thought I was in Whine and Cheese for a minute.
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I am bringing a gun to the next New England knife show.

That Indian george sounds like a dangerous man:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I sure do not want to buy any of his knives and NOT be happy.

but he did get some photos published, BFD.............
 
Originally posted by striper28
Dan,

#1 All I said in my original post in this thread was that they buyer should be edcuated on what they are buying. You don't buy a used car without it being inspected so why buy a knife that dosen't work right.

#2 Are customers supposed to learn what makes a knife good or bad as they go and have to pay ($$$) for their mistakes? At the blade show Les Robertson gives a seminar on custom knife collecting and what to look for in a good knife. I just want people to make the best knife they can, it will justify the price they get for it and it will raise the bar. Other makers will have to make a better knife for the same money. By better I mean fit and finish and mechanical function.

#3 I am not saying that there is only one way, and I am not saying that my way is the right or best way. I am also not saying that I have stoped learning, I learn something new with each knife I make. If you ask 6 guys how to make peanut butter & Jelly sandwiches you will get 6 different methods. All get the same end result.

#4 I have been making knives long enough to be able to make an observation about someone else's knives and the quality of their work without becoming the target of an unprovoked attack.

#5 I have never just come up to a maker and say make your knives this way, or why don't you make them this way? I ask and say how did you do this? Did you ever think to try it this way, or this way? Most of the time we come up with an even better way for the both of us.

Just a few thoughts.
Got any butter for that popcorn?
Click to expand...



#1 I understand most of what you're try to convey
but cars are bought every day without inspection, My Dad at 69 still sells used
cars and some guys like fixing them up saving money
a kit if you will..

#2 well yes and no we will learn very fast that way, but again
are we to take the word of someone else ( I'm not saying you here ), one may
not know very well.
to make a sound decision? you just appear to -some- as knowing all the ins
and outs of the PROPER way to build a knife,,,
as you say, could be done 6 different ways and come out the same.
maybe yes maybe no. I can't say..

#3 you did say to George that his knives should be made the right way which
would justify the asking price,,
at least that's the way it looked to me..
you may price your knives your way I my way and others other ways.
there is no set way...
there are makers that get mega bucks for their knives how do you justify that?
if that is your case and point,
hey,, name does sell and sells very well,,one may not like it but
we can not say what is priced fair the buyer will have the say in that...it sells or it won't,,
if it doesn't,, then the maker has to figure out why.

#4 I'm thinking when you say "Did you ever think to try it this way, or that way?"
if you do this to someone that has been making
longer than you have,, then,,, right or wrong you may have a disagreement on
your hands and you are opening up for attacks.
it's just the fact of the matter.

#5 see #3


don't get me wrong it's just that sometimes we sound different then
what we mean to say in writing..and the way we say it determines that.
I think IG means well but just got the bad rub..
...I think the pop corn is all gone...:(
 
Its very true, you definately should learn about custom knives before spending your money. Learn what to look for in a quality knife.

Chuck maybe a maker, but he is also a member of these forums like everybody else and has every right to give his opinion without some bitter mean maker threatening him.

Indian George, do you tell everyone you disagree with that you will shut their f*ing mouth for them?? You're a real class act :rolleyes:

I figure most of us are above the high-school behavior of saying "I dont like what you said, meet me behind the building so I can beat you up". Apparently not everybody is past that yet.
 
It seems to me that Indian George let his anger get the better of him. From the sounds of things it would appear that IG is of the belief that Chuck told him his knives weren't worth what he was asking for them. This may well not be what Chuck was trying to say at all, but whatever Chuck said, it seems to have really pissed George off. Maybe a direct face to face is what is needed to straighten this out. It may be more an misunderstanding than anything else.

IG, I don't know know what caused you to go off on TBG like that. maybe you were just having a bad day, but threats like that make you look bad. I really hope you didn't mean them. Jason/TBG sure never posted anything that warranted the kind of response he got from you. Like I said, maybe you were having a bad day and things are looking better right now, what do you have to say?

Possum, thanks for naming names. I really think it was important to do so.

No matter how many problems Randall Gilbreath is having there is no excuse for what he did here. Two years to get the work done would be absolutely rediculous if the work had been done correctly. To send it back after two years in worse condition than it was originally is totally unacceptable. It does not matter what the first owner did to this knife. If it went back to Mr. Gilbreath to be repaired and he said he could and would do it, it should not have left his shop without being repaired; that seems kind of obvious to me.

Family or personal health problems are an acceptable reason for delays, but if you can't get what you promised done in a reasonable time period then tell the other person that. If you can't get it fixed at all then tell the other person that as well. Don't keep a person hanging for two years and then send him back a worse POS than he sent you. If you tell a person that you are unable to fix a knife or that it will be unreasonably expensive to do so then you will be respected for your honesty. Doing things the way they were done here can go a long way to destroying a makers reputation.

This is one of those times that I think we are going to have to go by just one side of the story, since I doubt that Randall Gilbreath will be telling his side. Maybe hearing the whole story I would feel differently than I do now, as I do believe there are always two sides to a story, but if I am to believe the possum, and I have no reason not to, then this was one excellent example of pathetic customer service.

Edited to put in a missed word.
 
sorry Keith
but you may know the possum, I don't
it don't matter if it was him or someone else to me.
and I'm glad you put in if I was to believe possum.

I would want both sides of the story first
Too many perish in a witch hunt, on hear say.
how many times on the forums alone did you hear

well maybe I misunderstood or oh I meant to say.
oh sorry it was the other guy what's his name.
not to mention in life's journey.. I guess I'm an optimist
and believe in the good in everyone hey go ahead and shoot me..
but it's MHO.
Possum I'm not saying you are wrong and you may be totaly in the right in the way you feel and what has happened to you.
just if given the same situation from a strangers stand point could you take sides:(
who's popping the corn anyway:D butter and salt please
 
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