Atwood Prybaby - should I get S30V or titanium?

[Kohai999]

Mr. Stump, let me first say that you are top notch at annoying me consistently, regardless of the subject.

Peter Atwood makes the PryBaby. He is the only one that does THAT tool.

Not Kevin McClung, nor anybody else. To bring other names up for any reason in THIS specific thread is in bad taste, bad manners, and just plain stupid.

Peter's choice of metals is Ti(probably 6AL4V, but I am GUESSING here), or S30V. That is it. Peter would have a hard time selling tool steels as keyfobs/utility pieces, because they would rust. MOST consumers do not like rusty keyfobs, I know I don't. In order to minimize the rusting, he would have to plate or paint the metal in some manner, increasing expense and time to get to market.

You can point out the potential superiority of any other metal, all dang day, but until you offer the same model in a tool steel, and again, that would be very bad taste, OR successfully convince Mr. Atwood to offer the PryBaby in tool steels, you should just keep your fat, hairy self on the subject at hand.

You seem to have such a hard time sticking to the specific issues, and go off on tangents so easily. How did you ever get your degree?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Thomason]

I bought one of these last week from Julie at Arizona. I got the S30V model. I like it just fine the way Mr. Atwood made it.
Thank you Julie and Mr. Atwood.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

He is the only one that does THAT tool.

When you ask about a product performance wise there is always an implied question. I recently bought a TV for a friend and asked the salesmen about a couple, he immediately mentioned another from a different manufacturer which was going on sale in a few days (still more expensive, but a much better TV anyway), was this in bad taste, stupid, etc., hardly.

Knives are no different, and I do it with makers specifically constantly. I recently discussed a knife with a maker, they offered me a selection of standard lengths and steels and I chose something different, most of my custom pieces are like this, often with new steels almost always with different geometries. They are custom knifemakers, that is what the word custom means.

Plus if I asked about a knife from a maker similar to this thread and someone noted another maker or another steel which might be a better choice I would certainly not be antagonistic about the post, this was in fact how I found out about many of the makers and steels I have worked with to positive experiences.

...tool steels as keyfobs/utility pieces, because they would rust.

That is why I mentioned 420 and H1 if you want corrosion resistance, both are much more so than S30V which will rust readily in corrosive enviroments, and both have other advantages besides. But in general it is a pry bar, who cares if it patina's, which is all that will happen to it if it was a tool steel, unless you go swimming with it in salt water on a regular basis.

How does that comment add to any objective assessment of the tool?

It is more so why the steel is chosen. For a lot of people there are "good" and "bad" ratings for steels independent of what they are used for. S30v is now known as a "high end" steel so using it in any tool makes it high end for a lot of people, regardless of it is actually suitable for that tool. Just like if you made the same thing in AISI 420 it would be labeled "junk" by a lot of people even though that is a very good choice of steel for that type of work if you want stainless.

-Cliff

 

[Chiro75]

Again, it's a 3" long keychain tool, which I'm sure is very useful, but quite honestly if the performance of the steel is that big of an issue I would suggest that maybe you save the Prybaby for what it was intended to do and put, say, a multitool in your pocket or on your belt for the bigger jobs. Somehow I doubt that S30V is going to dissapoint people when they pull staples with it and open some bottles. Just my opinion, though!

What I don't really get is when people ask a question "Should I do/get/choose X or Y" and someone comes in with Z as the answer. The bottom line is that there are two choices for this small tool. Peter has been making these for years, and I've yet to hear a single bad thing about one. And, it's not like there are one or two of them out in circulation, so I assume that means that:
1) S30V and titanium are both fine choices for this application.
2) Peter knows how to design and make a useful tool.
3) People are using the tool for the intended purpose (i.e. I doubt they're attaching a 12 foot long cheater bar to the end and jacking their cars up with them).

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...I doubt that S30V is going to dissapoint people when they pull staples with it and open some bottles

That wasn't why S30V was contended. The issue was why choose a more expensive steel which is harder to machine because it offers high wear resistance, something which is of no benefit in that tool, when you can get a cheaper steel which is easier to machine and actually has a more optimal set of properties besides.

...when people ask a question "Should I do/get/choose X or Y" and someone comes in with Z as the answer.

Because it may be more optimal and it is assumed that the question is based on wanting performance not an irrational attachment to X or Y.

-Cliff

 

[mycroftt]

I personally EDC an S30v one with fancy edges and a raised honeycomb pattern. It's a one of a kind experimental piece.

Tease!

 

[Blop]

@ Kohai999,

if someone asks: "Shall i get this in this or that?", am i allowed to say: "It would be better if it were the other." in other words: "Choose something different?

I think i am in general. I think i am allowed to point on other sources too.

The topic starter left the answers open. He asked: "Did i miss something?" So anybody may come in on what might have been missed.

From my point of view he missed, that in a very different material, it would have been the right tool. In S30V it is what Mr. Atwood rightly said: "Schnick Schnack, people loved the steel, that´s all". The pry baby never seemed to be designed for a real purpose, more for just to have fun.

From the very point of utility you can´t say anything else than: "A simple SAK is the better choice!"

But the Pry baby looks baby nice, that´s true.

So if the topic starter just can´t hold back: What are the main colours you are wearing? Choose a ti one in that colour.

BTW nobody living has the rethoric skills of old german chancelor Adenauer, who avoided over years to spell someones name right. He spelled it wrong but different every time. This was a rethoric masterpiece, that shouldn´t be copied.

 

[Chiro75]

The issue was why choose a more expensive steel

Actually, not. The "issue" was which version of the tool that is offered should be purchased: S30V or Titanium. The original question was not "is there a better choice for this tool than S30V or titanium." Perhaps you made the issue the above quote, but the person who actually asked the question did not. Peter makes his knives and tools in two materials, those are the choices. Pick one or don't, but why bother discussing the ins and outs of other steels when they aren't a choice to begin with?

Because it may be more optimal and it is assumed that the question is based on wanting performance not an irrational attachment to X or Y.

So Peter is irrational because he offers these two choices for his product? That's an interesting take on it. You yourself have stated in other threads that it is expensive for knifemakers to switch steels frequently to either jump on/off the latest boat, etc. So, which is it? Or are you saying that a knifemaker doesn't have the right to offer the tools he makes in whatever choice of materials he wants?

 

[3Guardsmen]

So Peter is irrational because he offers these two choices for his product?

Wow, talk about putting words in someone's mouth! I believe Cliff was speaking to the intent of the question posed by the thread starter, not Mr. Atwood's state of mind in selecting Ti and S30V. If you want to start a flame war between Cliff and Mr. Atwood, that's your call, but do a better job of drawing inferences!

 

[Chiro75]

I'm not trying to start a flame war at all.

I believe Cliff was speaking to the intent of the question posed by the thread starter

There was no "intent" to read into behind the original question because those are the only two choices. I think Cliff made the assumption the purchaser was somehow emotionally attached to S30V and Ti because they're hot materials, so he suggested other materials, not knowing that those aren't choices. We can debate the issues of different steels for different applications until the cows come home, but the bottom line remains it's a waste of time because Ti and S30V ARE the choices. Nothing else.

 

[brownshoe]

You can get the prybaby in other steels. Just ask Atwood or go to a different maker. You could even customize the design by making some modifications. Atwood does what he does for his reasons. Maybe he gets a good price on S30V, or he has small pieces left from other work that he uses. It doesn't make a difference because his materials have stood the test of use w/o problem or failure.

I've bent the tools in leathermen, SAK, camilus and chinese-no-name knives. So if this tool doesn't bend or chip, and its due to the short design rather than steel choice...that's OK its still better than the rest. The validation of a design does not come in the planning or construction phase, nor through intellectual review. Validation of a design comes through the end user. A design is valid if it meets all the needs of the end user.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

[S30V issues]

Perhaps you made the issue the above

Among others, it was one of the things being discussed in the thread. You argured that S30V would be "fine", I noted that no one was contending that, however there was an arguement being made that it wasn't optimal.

So Peter is irrational because he offers these two choices for his product?

No, it would be irrational behavior to to ignore all discussion of other steels simply because those are the two default choices for a *CUSTOM* knife.

If this was the discussion of a production Spyderco it would be different, but even then you could suggest different steels, geometries etc. .

This then isn't taken as a suggestion of what the user should buy, but rather something for the maker/manufacturer to consider in the evolution of their product.

-Cliff

 

[conan]

Trout Tamer,
I don't see how you can go wrong with Ti or CPMS30V. Both will perform well. Other than the price difference, it all boils down to do you prefer Ti or stainless steel ?

 

[Chiro75]

No, it would be irrational behavior to to ignore all discussion of other steels simply because those are the two default choices for a *CUSTOM* knife.

The options are titanium or S30V. Who cares about AISI 420 when it isn't an option for this tool?

 

[cdf]

Buy both , the S30V is more practical , but the Ti has waycool factor . They are a great tool , anyone who owns a good folder should have one !

 

[Peter Atwood]

Gosh, such strong feelings! Let's keep it in perspective. It's just a fun little tool folks.

 

[Blop]

@Trout Tamer,

are you still around?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

From the very point of utility you can´t say anything else than: "A simple SAK is the better choice!"

Yes, but it isn't like you can't carry both, and it would be useful in certain situations which would overstress a small SAK, and it is a lot smaller than a full size one or a multi-tool.

There are lots of interesting mini-pry bars on the market, Lee Valley sells a small screw popper one made from spring steel, $5. Most hardware stores have a bunch, even Ti varients for the "space age" factor.

-Cliff

 

[xzjia]

Well, I just got a Bug Out Bar from Mr. Atwood, and the thing is great!

To answer the initial question, if you use it a LOT, meaning very, very frequent use then go with S30V, but if you like to play around with it and use it occasionally then go for TI.

I personally have no problem with it made with S30V, as someone pointed out S30V's advantage lies in its wear-resistence. Remember those are not merely just tools alone! They are art pieces, toys and dressy accessories. Would you like to whip one out that's all scratched up and greasy and look like you just came from the garage after fixing your car? Of course not! Those are meant to work great AND LOOK GREAT. By using S30V your little gadget will look just like when it arrived at your door years from now!

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: of course if you want to show off to your friends, even if you use it alot you can still get it in the shiny, beautiful TI flavour.

 

[Cougar Allen]

Going to a different steel would offer no advantage as far as I can see -- it certainly wouldn't lower the cost; steel is not a significant part of the cost of custom knives or tools.

I think it's about time to move this to Gadgets & Gear.