Atwood Prybaby - should I get S30V or titanium?

[mamba-man]

Peter has been making these for years, and I've yet to hear a single bad thing about one.

Sorry to be persnickety, but I've been reading about them on this forum, and I've seen comments about scratched finishes, chips from driving screws, and inability to open bottle tops.

 

[sodak]

Great, now Atwood is going to be getting some money from me.... I had to go find his web site after all this discussion, I love the lefty one, one of my sisters is left handed.

Too bad the one with a spanner wrench won't fit the holes on golf shoe spikes! You'd make a killing on it! My idea! Off to the patent office!

 

[Kohai999]

Sorry to be persnickety, but I've been reading about them on this forum, and I've seen comments about scratched finishes, chips from driving screws, and inability to open bottle tops.

Hey Mumble-man,

You came out of Political to drudge up a thread that is ...oh......over a year old?

DIE, TROLL, DIE!!!!

Steven Garsson

 

[mamba-man]

Get a life, Steven Arse-on.

 

[Peter Atwood]

I got a chuckle out of reading back through this thread. A lot has happened in the year since this thread ran it's course.

BTW, for what is is worth, Mr. Mamba, I have gotten back exactly two Prybabies for fixing chipped edges, and that is out of thousands made and sold. One came back from Iraq a couple of months ago that had been hammered on and slightly deformed. I fixed it up good as new and sent it back over there. And bottle opening has been improved over the years although 99.9999% of people have never had any complaints. As far as scratched finishes, I don't believe any material whatsoever will survive constant battering on a keychain. And I should mention that scratches on a Prybaby are a badge of honor, which means you have been using and abusing the tool, exactly what I intended.

Look guys, the whole point here is to make a friggin tool that will last forever. That's what I'm trying to do. So the harder it is, the thicker it is within reason, the longer it will exist. Better than any tombstone I could think of.

 

[Cougar Allen]

Get a life, Steven Arse-on.

That is not the level of discourse that we like to have here on Bladeforums.

 

[R.D.Hatch]

I have been carrying a Prybaby for several weeks now. Great workmanship and and a fine concept. I have the base model and it is a fine tool. The Ti tool may be next.
It is a 3 inch long tool. The steel is not really relevent in my opinion. To bend or brake it would mean you had to use a cheater bar or other lever.
If you use the proper tool for the job you usually have no problem no matter what the steel.
You can break anything if you try.
Mr. Atwood has a fine product at a good price. It should last longer than you will with reasonable care.
Used as intended it is great.
I have been carrying it in the pocket in 100 degree heat and sweat for several weeks and no corrosion problems with the S30V.
I am looking forword to more Atwood tools.

 

[mamba-man]

That is not the level of discourse that we like to have here on Bladeforums.

Oops! I didn't realize that DIE, TROLL, DIE!!!! was more the sort of response I should have made.

 

[mamba-man]

BTW, for what is is worth, Mr. Mamba, I have gotten back exactly two Prybabies for fixing chipped edges, and that is out of thousands made and sold.

I'll take your word for it.

And bottle opening has been improved over the years although 99.9999% of people have never had any complaints.

I've been searching for comments on your tools today, as a prospective customer and I've seen at least 2-3 people on these forums alone say that they cannot use the Prybaby to open bottles.

As far as scratched finishes, I don't believe any material whatsoever will survive constant battering on a keychain. And I should mention that scratches on a Prybaby are a badge of honor, which means you have been using and abusing the tool, exactly what I intended.

I have some things on my keychain that are not scratched. However, my Titanium watch is badly scratched.

 

[RedEdge77]

Oops! I didn't realize that DIE, TROLL, DIE!!!! was more the sort of response I should have made.

Thats because when you cause problems and bring up old threads, you are TROLLING. If you don't like the prybar then thats your choice. If you have never owned one or seen one in person then you really cannnot be accusing a respected member here for something that you know nothing about.

 

[Vivi]

He does have a good point though. Rules here have a tendancy to not be enforced if the member is well received, likewise with the opposite.

 

[mamba-man]

Thats because when you cause problems and bring up old threads, you are TROLLING.

That's a peculiar definition of trolling. I run a forum just like this one on the net, and I do not penalize people for responding to non-archived messages.

I'm researching prybars. Therefore my comments are topical and relevant to ME.

If you don't like the prybar then thats your choice. If you have never owned one or seen one in person then you really cannnot be accusing a respected member here for something that you know nothing about.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, simply commenting that in the last few hours I've read about the flaws I mention above.

 

[Kohai999]

That's a peculiar definition of trolling. I run a forum just like this one on the net, and I do not penalize people for responding to non-archived messages.

To be accepted in BladeForums, and not get shouted down, you have to bring something MORE than opinions to the table for people to "get".

When you go after valued, respected members that contribute something to the Forums, you had better have established yourself as a member who is deserving of respect, and will be around for a while, otherwise, you get what you get.

You are not going to change this place proceeding like you already have, but that could change if you change. Get it?

STeven Garsson

 

[Cliff Stamp]

To be accepted in BladeForums, and not get shouted down, you have to bring something MORE than opinions to the table for people to "get".

Segmenting the rules to apply to a class system is hardly productive to encouraging meaningful discussion. Ideas are debated independent of the speaker, assuming you are looking to find the truth and not simply be sheep following popular opinion. New members to the forum should have the same rights, and get the same respect as established posters.

... I've been reading about them on this forum, and I've seen comments about scratched finishes, chips from driving screws, and inability to open bottle tops.

In general it would be best to be a little more specific, as how many specific are included in the plural, and references to threads would be ideal. An S30V prybar is a pretty silly idea, but this is to be expected given the current fad nature of the cutlery industry and the wide spread propogation of steels as superior/inferior irregardless of tool usage.

-Cliff

 

[Kohai999]

Segmenting the rules to apply to a class system is hardly productive to encouraging meaningful discussion. Ideas are debated independent of the speaker, assuming you are looking to find the truth and not simply be sheep following popular opinion. New members to the forum should have the same rights, and get the same respect as established posters.

But they don't, Cliff, get over it.

It is your stubborness, and complete rockheadedness that got you removed from the role of Moderator. This is too bad, because you have a brilliant mind, but for all your pontificating, you don't practice what you preach.

In addition, keeping to the topic, you got slapped around like a red-headed stepchild in this thread because you INSISTED that Peter should be open to material usage other than what he was offering. I said a year ago, and still maintain that your position was moot until you start offering a competing product in the materials you mentioned, and to tie into my statement above, until YOU start a competitor to BladeForums, you are just another long standing, long winded member on THESE Forums, just like the rest of us who have been around for a while.

Only difference is that you don't financially support these Forums, and we do.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Cliff Stamp]

But they don't ...

Hence the problem, unlike forums like Swordforums in which they do, because it is the ideas which are being discussed not the people. Thus the level of dicussion is far superior because it is centered on facts and not individuals. Spend some time there on the Metallurgy forum and watch the level of information flow. As for getting over it, there is nothing to get over, I am simply pointing out absurd behavior. You can of course continue to propogate it, and encourage others to do so and if the main body of the forums supports it then it will continue.

... your position was moot until you start offering a competing product in the materials you mentioned...

This is complete and utter nonsense. By the same viewpoint the work that Verhoeven has done is also moot because he doesn't sell steel/knives/abrasives to compete with those whose promotion he contradicts by offering information to oppose the vast overhype of high carbide steels for knives. As for being "slapped around", my arguement was made on facts, supported by actual materials data. S30V as a prybar has no logical arguement. It is in fact more expensive and has lower toughness than steels which lower carbide volumes, especially in thin edges which can get equally hard and thus offer even greater strength which more toughness.

The work of Landes studies this in some detail in regards to fine edges, including several CPM steels, however he of course doesn't sell prybabies so you would of course ignore that as well. As of course all the independent studies done on products/equipment by people with no monetary attachment to the industry, since none of them sell products to compete with those they evaluate their commentary has no worth. In fact the opposite is true. In generarl you would be well advised to look with extreme skeptism at anyone making claims about materials in a product that they sell or competes with a product they sell.

Only difference is that you don't financially support these Forums, and we do.

I did, until I stopped selling knives here, though that again is an absurd point, that members who pay should have more rights than those that don't. At the very least if this is an official policy, along with the the other two above positions, at least make them public and be clear that this is the position. Though I doubt that all moderators would support your viewpoint on those three issues.

-Cliff

 

[mamba-man]

An S30V prybar is a pretty silly idea, but this is to be expected given the current fad nature of the cutlery industry and the wide spread propagation of steels as superior/inferior irregardless of tool usage.

That's an interesting point, and one I'd like to explore. I wonder if Mr Atwood would like to experiment with using other steels. I'd be a willing guinea pig, and as payment I'm prepared to goose (i.e improve) his website for him (I'm a professional website builder). I know he has said that he doesn't like messy oil quenching, so I don't know what other steels he'd be prepared to use. Some suggestions:

• D2 Die Tool Steel (with 11-13% chromium I have listed this as Stainless although it will
esp., if not properly heat-treated stain and rust under some circumstances. With 1.40-1.6%
Carbon heat-treated to 60-62HRC this is as close as you can get to the perfect knife steel);
• 154CM (the steel made famous by Bob Loveless. Due to availability and probably costs
many Commercial Makers are using ATS-34 in preference);
• ATS-34 (similar to 154CM but for some reason in my experience not as good);
• VG-10 (used extensively by Spyderco and similar to 154CM without the bigger dose of
Molybdenum although it has Cobalt and Vanadium to assist. Heat-treated to 58-60HRC it
is a very serviceable knife steel and a cost effective alternative to CPM-S30V);
• AUS-10 (similar to 154CM but again without the large dose of Molybdenum);
• 440C (has stood the test of time but unfortunately has been badly heat-treated by many
Makers. Its large dose of Chromium (16-18%) make it an excellent steel for a “rusty”
environment although in very cold climates the large amount of Chromium can lead to
broken blades); and
• N690 (Austria’s version of 440C and used extensively by Benchmade. Heat-treated to 58-
60HRC this steel is up there with 154CM and the like).

 

[MBWirenut]

Now please, I am being serious about this, what really would you use these for? I am sure I am missing some thing. I can sort of see the use in the knife prybar combo, but in such a small package? I really am looking for an explanation. They are neat looking though.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Some suggestions:

For a prying tool, you are looking at strength/toughness, you don't want or need a high primary carbide fraction, all that means is the steel is more expensive to buy and harder to grind, so it costs more money to make and it takes more work to repair when it does get damaged as prying tools often do. Look instead at steels which a very low carbide fraction which have the right carbon/chromium balance to offer high hardness, the Sandvik steels have such structure. Devin Thomas would be worth the time to talk to about such steels if you have not done so already. Verhoeven and Landes have looked at such steels in detail, though not in this regard though the basic ideas as relevant. Both have materials available on line and both are responsive to emails. Ideally you would move away from stainless steels, and if for some reason you really needed a high corrosion resistance you just get it coated. Johnston has been donig breaking tests on steels on rec.knives and L6 is obviously a strong contender for such an application - it patina's really fast though so the air hardening steels, though not as materially sound, are more aesthetically capable.

-Cliff

 

[mamba-man]

MBWirenut, a small, strong lever is often useful, for me that is.