Auction Site Knife From China That's Likely A Fake But I Love It. What About You Guys

[Ogien]

Sooo... you really like the design, but would rather not pay for it or would rather pay a thief who stole the design, built the knife, and sold it to specifically cut into the market of the original designer/maker/seller???

Of course the feel is great, it is Buck's "Vanguard", it has been around for ages, an excellent design inspired (if not invented) by Bob Loveless, a design protected by law along with Buck's logo/company name, BOTH of which were ripped-off here. The Vanguard, USA-designed, USA-made, can be purchased for very little more than you payed for this copy, but comes with a lifetime warranty from the originator, and a long history. Instead of buying into that history, you robbed the designer/maker and encouraged piracy, brought a stain upon your character, and ended up with a random bit of sharpened metal that resembles the real thing just so you could feel how great the design really is. I am just... :barf:

If this were a rip-off of a company that you were angry at for ripping off someone else, I could understand... But what do you have against Buck Knives?

I don't necessarily think he knew he was buying a "ripoff" when he initially bought it. He probably bought it before he knew a lot about it and then found out. He just so happens to like the one he has.

From his posts above, he clearly KNEW it was a rip-off and instead of learning more about the design or Buck Knives handed over the money because it was a cheap version of an excellent design. Then he comes on here to talk all about how wonderful the design is. Well done Buck!!! Except he didn't pay Buck for the genius of the design, for that great experience that he absolutely loves. It is afterall not the knife he loves but the design, which belongs to Buck. And he goes on to say he may buy ANOTHER of these rip-offs because they are so cheap and the design is so great. WTF? :barf:

Touche! (however you spell it) I guess I had my trying to be nice hat on.

Well the nice guy hat might work better because I clearly said I would consider buying a second one to MODIFY IT which would make it NOT Buck designed. I would NOT modify an expensive knife but I have no trouble shortening, grinding on, and otherwise messing around with a cheap POS auction site knife. Buying a fake for the purpose of making something completely different is paramount to buying a blank to make something original.


To everyone else that jumped to conclusions and hopped on your high horse, I reccomend a class in reading comprehension cause you obviously don't read posts before shooting your "well thought out" chatter off.

I'm not going to defend what I said because it's clear what I said. I was surprised by a knife I had never heard of before. I am not a fixed blade knife buyer so this was a one off type of thing A YEAR AGO. I did not know if what I was getting was legit or not at the time but after receiving it I came to the conclusion that it was likely not legit.

You wanna flame me for an innocent post, go right ahead. I don't mind watching people get red in the face and steaming at the ears because they can't go to the trouble to read the posts already out there.

 

[northwalesBill]

Ogien
That's how I initially "read" your post so that's why the hat was on. I never heard of "Mantrack" before I bought the 20 dollar knife I displayed. When I was curious as to what it was I saw that it could have been the real deal and although I was disappointed that it wasn't real it still turned out to be a great knife. With that said and back to your original post. Yes I've bought a knife that I found out was fake but was impressed/pleased with it.

Bill

 

[mcrow]

Well the nice guy hat might work better because I clearly said I would consider buying a second one to MODIFY IT which would make it NOT Buck designed. I would NOT modify an expensive knife but I have no trouble shortening, grinding on, and otherwise messing around with a cheap POS auction site knife.


To everyone else that jumped to conclusions and hopped on your high horse, I reccomend a class in reading comprehension cause you obviously don't read posts before shooting your "well thought out" chatter off.

I'm not going to defend what I said because it's clear what I said. I was surprised by a knife I had never heard of before. I am not a fixed blade knife buyer so this was a one off type of thing A YEAR AGO. I did not know if what I was getting was legit or not at the time but after receiving it I came to the conclusion that it was likely not legit.

You wanna flame me for an innocent post, go right ahead. I don't mind watching people get red in the face and steaming at the ears because they can't go to the trouble to read the posts already out there.

IDK, you knew it was way under priced, shipping from china and you thought maybe it was real? Sorry, don't buy it.

I could see if you are not a collect of knives at all, never heard of Buck or something but even if you collect folders you'd know something about Bucks. It is one of the iconic brands in the market.

You came in here feigning ingnorance but I'm pretty sure you knew it was too good to be true.

I don't have a problem with cheap knives, I have a problem with cheap knives putting someone elese's brand name on them and trying to pass them off as the real deal. As a knife collector of any sort you should be upset by that. If a company wants to make a similar style knife and sell it under another brand, I don't have an issue with that, it happens all the time and there are only so many ways to make a knife so there are going to be similarities.

 

[Morrow]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1077540-The-Counterfeit-Rule

Moving this thread to Feedback.

 

[Ogien]

IDK, you knew it was way under priced, shipping from china and you thought maybe it was real? Sorry, don't buy it.

I could see if you are not a collect of knives at all, never heard of Buck or something but even if you collect folders you'd know something about Bucks. It is one of the iconic brands in the market.

You came in here feigning ingnorance but I'm pretty sure you knew it was too good to be true.

I don't have a problem with cheap knives, I have a problem with cheap knives putting someone elese's brand name on them and trying to pass them off as the real deal. As a knife collector of any sort you should be upset by that. If a company wants to make a similar style knife and sell it under another brand, I don't have an issue with that, it happens all the time and there are only so many ways to make a knife so there are going to be similarities.

I knew of Buck and I have a beautiful Buck 110 that I adore but I know very little about fixed blade knives. The auction was ending, it had no bids on it so I said, WTF and bid on it. Didn't see it was coming from China until it didn't arrive 3 or 4 days later which is when my suspicioun began to grow and when I saw it wasn't used I was fairly certain it was a knock off. Which is why I stated that I am fairly sure it's a fake. Interestingly it doesn't say where it is made, or by wome, anywhere on the blade. It sits in my drawer and last night I picked it up and was fiddling with it and remembered how much I enjoyed "playing" with it and decided today to post an innocent thread to find out what everyone else ended up with that may be fake, may just be a cheap no name or anything else along those lines that they happened to really like in spite of it being of dubious quality and materials.

 

[chiral.grolim]

... I clearly said I would consider buying a second one to MODIFY IT which would make it NOT Buck designed.

I would NOT modify an expensive knife but I have no trouble shortening, grinding on, and otherwise messing around with a cheap POS auction site knife. Buying a fake for the purpose of making something completely different is paramount to buying a blank to make something original.

"Look at this counterfeit item I just payed a thief money for! Isn't it great? Wow, what a design! I'm thinking of buying a second counterfeit to maybe, one day, modify somehow... And that's OK because giving my money to the thief & counterfeiter isn't a sick thing to do and doesn't encourage piracy and harm innovation and the industry because after I've paid my money to the thief for TWO of these stolen items (and so committed TWO violations), I might someday alter aspects of the design of one of them..."

How precisely does committing the crime twice make it better? Or do you mean that you WILL buy the authentic item - right now, this minute, as it can be had for <$60 (not 'expensive') - and will play with the knock-off as if it were a blade-blank that just happened to come with an excellent design and handle? How will you alter the handle to make it like a blank that doesn't infringe on Buck's design? How will you discourage the thief who sold you the fake from using the BUCK brand (and probably box) to sell more of these counterfeits? Do you read your own posts?

I'm not going to defend what I said because it's clear what I said.

Yes, yes it is. You like the design of the Buck Vanguard, but you'd rather pay a thief for a cheap imitation than the designer for his reasonably priced, warranty-backed, history-laden work of ingenuity. *shrug*

 

[Ogien]

"Look at this counterfeit item I just payed a thief money for! Isn't it great? Wow, what a design! I'm thinking of buying a second counterfeit to maybe, one day, modify somehow... And that's OK because giving my money to the thief & counterfeiter isn't a sick thing to do and doesn't encourage piracy and harm innovation and the industry because after I've paid my money to the thief for TWO of these stolen items (and so committed TWO violations), I might someday alter aspects of the design of one of them..."

How precisely does committing the crime twice make it better? Or do you mean that you WILL buy the authentic item - right now, this minute, as it can be had for <$60 (not 'expensive') - and will play with the knock-off as if it were a blade-blank that just happened to come with an excellent design and handle? How will you alter the handle to make it like a blank that doesn't infringe on Buck's design? How will you discourage the thief who sold you the fake from using the BUCK brand (and probably box) to sell more of these counterfeits? Do you read your own posts?



Yes, yes it is. You like the design of the Buck Vanguard, but you'd rather pay a thief for a cheap imitation than the designer for his reasonably priced, warranty-backed, history-laden work of ingenuity. *shrug*

Your hobby is going through life with moral indignation and let the facts be damned, right?

The fact I hadn't bought another one during the YEAR since ending up with this one would suggest I have no plans for buying a second one. Once again, that comprehension thing.

 

[RevDevil]

Your hobby is going through life with moral indignation and let the facts be damned, right?

The fact I hadn't bought another one during the YEAR since ending up with this one would suggest I have no plans for buying a second one. Once again, that comprehension thing.

I do not buy anything that is counterfeit. If that makes me a morality/ethics snob oh well. I'd rather have 1 good quality knife than a pile blazing turds. You all should also craft your replies carefully, they could be construed as antagonistic and mildly insulting.

 

[Ogien]

99% of my collection, both vintage and modern day is 100% authentic. This knife that I created this thread about happens to be a fake that I initially thought was real, which upon inspection surprises me by it's quality. I can't undo something I bought on a whim on an auction a year ago and I've made it clear I don't support buying fakes. I don't know why everyone is having such a hard time understanding this.

This place didn't freak out like this several months ago before I had to take a hiatus from the boards. Never had a problem with anyone, and still don't, but am looking a bit cockeyed at the over-reaction to what is essentially a "fluff" thread for the purpose of returning to being an active member on this board.

RevDevil, by all means enjoy your high-horse but you're rocking it towards the wrong guy here.

If I'm not welcome back then by all means say so. No need for little attacks from board cliques to send a message.

It boils down to this, I bought a knife a year ago on an auction that was closing, on a whim. I played with the knife last night after not having touched it for some time and mentioned it on this board because I thought it would be a light hearted way to start a topic and get back into the swing of things. Wasn't selling them, wasn't telling people to buy them. I'm not a dealer. Nothing. Everyone has a conniption fit as though I were the guy on the "grassy knoll" and I'm standing here wondering why.

I had expected posts such as "Next time read the auction details better" or something along those lines. Let he who is without fault cast the first stone? Oh that's right, if you don't post about your faults then that means you're without them, right Chiral?

By all means though, keep flaming me and don't let facts get in the way of a good lynching.

 

[jjoanty01]

Ogien, I am glad that you like the knife that you bought. I would make a simple suggestion of buying the real deal seeing as how much you like the design. That way, you know what your getting. A knife that you love, with premium components, made by real american workers. I don't feel that you desrved all the negativity you got for your purchase. But that is what is great about our country. The right to say what you wish. Oh yeah unless it hurts somebody's feelings, or insults them, or bashes thier sexual preference or thier religion...

 

[Ogien]

Ogien, I am glad that you like the knife that you bought. I would make a simple suggestion of buying the real deal seeing as how much you like the design. That way, you know what your getting. A knife that you love, with premium components, made by real american workers. I don't feel that you desrved all the negativity you got for your purchase. But that is what is great about our country. The right to say what you wish. Oh yeah unless it hurts somebody's feelings, or insults them, or bashes thier sexual preference or thier religion...

Much appreciated. Now that I know which knife the knock-off is actually ripped off from I have done some preliminary searches online to see about getting the real deal at the best possible price. Like I said, fixed blades aren't my thing but this design I really like. The only problem is I wish I could find one that was a little bit smaller and could function as more of a fixed blade pocket knife. I don't do much camping really and go fishing sporadically so I have limited use for this sort of knife. Having said that I did compliment the design and if I can get one for a good price just to play around with from time to time then I'm more than open to it. Even asked earlier in this thread if anyone had a used one they would be willing to part with since it's really more of a novelty purchase for me.

I do appreciate your post though and agree with you 100% on the "other" stuff too.

EDIT: When I said "Now that I know which knife the knock-off is actually ripped off from" I meant which model of Buck not which manufacturer. Is there a smaller version of this knife that you know of?

 

[chiral.grolim]

Fact 1: you bought a knife you knew or strongly suspected to be a forgery because it was inexpensive.
Fact 2: the knife is well designed - of course it is, it's one of Bucks best sellers, has been for a long time. Why are you surprised at the quality of the design?? Because it is a forgery? The design isn't a forgery, the KNIFE is.
Fact 3: you indicated intentions of buying ANOTHER forgery! But it's supposed top be OK because this time, after you pay the forger to assist his sale and encourage his endeavor, you will modify the knife so that it doesn't appear to be a forgery any more??
Fact 4: a YEAR is not very long from my perspective, certainly not long enough to erase the act, no amount of time is. What's done is done. But to then start a thread about how wonderful the design of the Buck Vanguard is, only instead attributing that greatness to the thief whom you supported and subsequently declared that you would support again??
Fact 5: I could be an alcoholic, drug-addict, domestic abuser and it STILL wouldn't make this sort of thing OK. Do I have faults, of course! But I bear the shame of those faults (most of the time). I am not the victim, and neither are you. Buck is. The only "high horse" is see is your own. Have the decency to admit the fault instead of glorying in how little you paid for such a great design. You shame yourself, I just want to be sure that you realize it.

What color is the sky?

I am not your enemy, nor am I high on a horse of any kind. I have not even insulted you beyond pointing out the truth. If that is offensive *shrug* YOU are the one who seems to have a problem with people, slinging insults as if you are unassailable. Again, who is on a "high horse"? Calm down. At least the thread was moved.

 

[drichardson67]

Back in the early days of my knife addiction, I bought a Buck/Strider 0888. A few months later I figured out it was a fake. And I was so pissed at myself for my stupidity, I subjected that knife to the only fate a fake deserves: target practicing. I took the damn thing out in the cow pasture and blew it to smitherines with my .220 Swift.

And to the thief who stole and copied the design, a couple dozen well aimed mortar rounds on his shop would be too nice IMHO.

Besides, what's the point of having a knife I know I can't count on?

I understand the learning curve and mistakes made innocently, but in the end, subsidizing a counterfeiting racket hurts everybody...

 

[Ogien]

Fact 1: you bought a knife you knew or strongly suspected to be a forgery because it was inexpensive.
Fact 2: the knife is well designed - of course it is, it's one of Bucks best sellers, has been for a long time. Why are you surprised at the quality of the design?? Because it is a forgery? The design isn't a forgery, the KNIFE is.
Fact 3: you indicated intentions of buying ANOTHER forgery! But it's supposed top be OK because this time, after you pay the forger to assist his sale and encourage his endeavor, you will modify the knife so that it doesn't appear to be a forgery any more??
Fact 4: a YEAR is not very long from my perspective, certainly not long enough to erase the act, no amount of time is. What's done is done. But to then start a thread about how wonderful the design of the Buck Vanguard is, only instead attributing that greatness to the thief whom you supported and subsequently declared that you would support again??
Fact 5: I could be an alcoholic, drug-addict, domestic abuser and it STILL wouldn't make this sort of thing OK. Do I have faults, of course! But I bear the shame of those faults (most of the time). I am not the victim, and neither are you. Buck is. The only "high horse" is see is your own. Have the decency to admit the fault instead of glorying in how little you paid for such a great design. You shame yourself, I just want to be sure that you realize it.

What color is the sky?

I am not your enemy, nor am I high on a horse of any kind. I have not even insulted you beyond pointing out the truth. If that is offensive *shrug* YOU are the one who seems to have a problem with people, slinging insults as if you are unassailable. Again, who is on a "high horse"? Calm down. At least the thread was moved.

1. No, I saw an auction with no bids that was ending in 2 minutes so I bid on it in a hurry. At this point I did not suspect anything.
2. The knife IS well designed, no argument here.
3. I was speaking out loud as a throw away line. How many people say, "I'm so embarassed I just want to die" does saying that indicate an intention to commit suicide in your opinion?
4. A year is a very long time to "Think about with intention" to buy a $15 knife. Nobody, in their right mind thinks about spending $15 for 12 months/365 days. As to supporting thieves see point rebuttal #1
5. You certainly could be an alcoholic, drug-addict, domestic abuser. I don't know if you are or your aren't. The difference is that I acknowledged publicly that I bought a fake knife. As I have stated over and over and over again I DIDN'T suspect it was fake untill it didn't arrive within the normal 3-5 days after the auction which is when I went back to my account and THEN noticed it was being shipped from China. When did I glorify anything? Are you mad? Point out where I glorified how little I paid?

I don't know what color the sky is where you are but over here it's gray. Not the answer you were expecting?

I'm not your enemy either but I'm also not the one attacking and attacking and attacking you without first reading each and every word you have to say.

You had the choice to be helpful and help guide me towards the right kind of knife I was looking for since I mentioned I would buy a used one since I can't see spending $75 (right now with the Government shutdown and me not knowing if/when I'll get paid/work next time) at this time. Instead you decided to decry "He's wearing a scarlet letter, stone him to death."

You're right, I do need to calm down. One of the reasons I always came to this board was to read and talk about knives and to decompress. So your "God-esque" comandments and fire and brimstone certainly didn't help me accomplish decompressing. Though I can't hold that entirely against you. Just pointing out the way I see things.

As for Buck being robbed? I don't know about that, I wouldn't be looking at prices for a Buck Vanguard if it wasn't for first buying a Chinese knock-off. I didn't even know it WAS supposed to be a Vanguard knock-off since I'm NOT a fixed blade knife collector and have minimal experience with models of fixed blade knives. So I'm not so sure that the Chinese didn't just help Buck make a sale that they otherwise never would have gotten for the fact I wasn't looking for a fixed blade knife but bought ended up buying a cheapo version on a whim because of a percieved "Great Deal" on an auction site we are all familiar with.

Back in the early days of my knife addiction, I bought a Buck/Strider 0888. A few months later I figured out it was a fake. And I was so pissed at myself for my stupidity, I subjected that knife to the only fate a fake deserves: target practicing. I took the damn thing out in the cow pasture and blew it to smitherines with my .220 Swift.

And to the thief who stole and copied the design, a couple dozen well aimed mortar rounds on his shop would be too nice IMHO.

Besides, what's the point of having a knife I know I can't count on?

I understand the learning curve and mistakes made innocently, but in the end, subsidizing a counterfeiting racket hurts everybody...

Where I live, if I start shooting at stuff in my back yard they will come and lock me up. Not an option.

Completely agree with you about owning a knife I don't know if I can rely on. I actually made a similar point earlier in this thread.

EDIT: I don't see how this thread being moved has at all been a good thing I was fine with it being where it was but I don't make those decisions so it got moved to where it stands currently. Personally I would have welcomed more input from the community.

 

[Morrow]

EDIT: I don't see how this thread being moved has at all been a good thing I was fine with it being where it was but I don't make those decisions so it got moved to where it stands currently. Personally I would have welcomed more input from the community.

It was moved because of the site rule I linked for you. Things have been getting out of hand in regards to promotion of counterfeit knives (intentional or otherwise) so a rule was put in place to deal with the situation. This knife is a counterfeit. It is not a Buck product but is marked as one. We should not be helping the people/companies sell knives.

Take a look at this thread.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1080398-Counterfeits-The-Truth-of-the-matter

 

[Ogien]

It was moved because of the site rule I linked for you. Things have been getting out of hand in regards to promotion of counterfeit knives (intentional or otherwise) so a rule was put in place to deal with the situation. This knife is a counterfeit. It is not a Buck product but is marked as one. We should not be helping the people/companies sell knives.

Take a look at this thread.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1080398-Counterfeits-The-Truth-of-the-matter

OH, OK then, that's cool. I've been away for some time so I'm not up to speed on what's been going on around here. It's all good.

 

[Seals]

There are plenty of cheap China made knives out there if you want to own that kind of thing.I have an occasional fling with them myself.But to buy a counterfeit knife is the worst thing a person could do for the American knife business.Why the U.S. government doesn't hammer China on this i don't know.They blatantly steal and copy everything including our new F-35 and who knows what else.

 

[Ogien]

There are plenty of cheap China made knives out there if you want to own that kind of thing.I have an occasional fling with them myself.But to buy a counterfeit knife is the worst thing a person could do for the American knife business.Why the U.S. government doesn't hammer China on this i don't know.They blatantly steal and copy everything including our new F-35 and who knows what else.

Since I don't want to explain things that I've already explained I'd be glad to either direct you to look 3 posts up for a 1-5 detailed explanation or you can follow the permalink to it by clicking http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1115411-Auction-Site-Knife-From-China-That-s-Likely-A-Fake-But-I-Love-It-What-About-You-Guys?p=12722029#post12722029

Lets not pretend that at any time I said that this is something that I continuously do or have done. I bought this knife a year ago so before you say that what I did was the worst thing a person can do (personally I think there are a lot worse one can do) then to purchase a Chinese knife.

I'm kind of curious why Spyderco isn't being taken to task? Spyderco is now having the majority of their knives made in Japan. While not quite China it's just a rock skip away in the same neighborhood and it certainly isn't providing jobs for American workers. So before we decry what a HORRIBLE thing I did lets keep things in perspective. Because if I buy Spyderco I'm supporting the Japanese worker and not the American worker.

For future refference I would suggest the following.
Some might say that hammering and harping on a subject might make some people more likely to go back and buy a Chinese knife as a form of rebellion, after being hammered repeatedly for mistakenly buying one Chinese knife, since they might not be able to reply to certain people with the passion and intonations they might like. I'm not one of those people but there are drawbacks to beating a dead horse. Just sayin'.

 

[gzb]

Might want to reread your thread's title here.

Auction Site Knife From China That's Likely A Fake But I Love It. What About You Guys

You stated you "love it". Then asked "What about you guys"?

Obviously most "you guys" don't love it and told you so. And why...

Careful asking a question on a public forum when you just might not want to hear the answer(s)...

 

[Sullie]

Hey man I got nothing against you and don't judge you. I know it's hard to decipher "tone" through text so try and keep in mind I am not trying to attack you. Whether or not you knew that you bought a fake at the time of purchase, you now know what it is. And it is stealing a sale from buck, or at least supporting those who steal from Buck. Some of your older posts seemed to be unclear as to whether you supported counterfeits or not but now you seem to be pretty clear you do not wish to knowingly support them. But that wasn't exactly clear by some statements in earlier posts and I don't want to go and quote examples of confusion(I will probably screw it up). It seemed like at one point you were boasting of your knock off after knowing that it is a knock off which could very well sway someone into buying a knock off and their friends and so forth....so you can probably see why people jump on that. It's stealing. And on a website for knife enthusiasts, it's stealing from their passion. The only response to finding out you bought a knock off should be disappointment. Anything else is gonna get people to defend what they feel is right...you did ask for our opinion. Buy the real deal if you like it so much. Or, as you asked, buy a smaller version fixed blade of Buck's. Have you checked out Bucks 113? It's not a scaled down version of the vanguard but when I was looking at getting a vanguard I looked more at the 113....ended up sticking with my sharp finger. I'm sure other people will have better answers for you.
Any way, emotion aside, there are some good things posted here and consider some of the criticism and take it with an open mind. You bought a fake, ended up liking fixed blades, a particular model and you can go from there...