Axis lock a gravity knife?

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Mephtyrm

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I was just showing my friend who's dad is a police officer, and when I held my Sanrenmu 763(Trying out the Axis lock for cheapo) upside down and let the blade fall, he, obviously knowing laws and such, called it a gravity knife.

Could there be any legal issues with it?
 
Yes, there could be. The issue most likely to arise is officers of the law who have no idea what a gravity knife is. Some seem to think that if you let go of the knife and it falls, gravity affects it so it is a gravity knife. In actuality, a gravity knife is held shut by a mechanical latch and opens by the force of gravity alone when the latch is released. It cannot be opened without releasing the latch. Axis lock knives are not gravity knives, but try finding a judge who will agree with you against the cop who arrested you.
 
If you pull back the lock bar, yes, it is a gravity knife.
 
in NY anything what can be opened by flicking your wrist is gravity knife , new thing to give you more crap .
 
Im a cop in NYPD and honestly we will use ANY knife clipped to your pants as an excuse for a stop question and frisk... most of the times we think the person might be wanted etc its not usually used (at least by me) to mess with people honestly any knife not on an exposed holster is a concealed weapon and an easy ticket for a rookie cop

we use it the same way we pull over for tinted windows or loud exhaust or not making a full stop... not really stopping for that just using that as a way to question and possibly have you incriminate yourself or find something on you

again cops can use this to be a jerk or only use it to get criminals off the street its up to the cops morals
 
furfmonkey said:
Im a cop in NYPD and honestly we will use ANY knife clipped to your pants as an excuse for a stop question and frisk... most of the times we think the person might be wanted etc its not usually used (at least by me) to mess with people honestly any knife not on an exposed holster is a concealed weapon and an easy ticket for a rookie cop

we use it the same way we pull over for tinted windows or loud exhaust or not making a full stop... not really stopping for that just using that as a way to question and possibly have you incriminate yourself or find something on you

again cops can use this to be a jerk or only use it to get criminals off the street its up to the cops morals
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I'm so glad I don't live in NY :thumbup:
 
Charlie Mike said:
If you pull back the lock bar, yes, it is a gravity knife.
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I agree.

The lockbar acts as a latch, the same way a lock switch on an traditional gravity knife works, as those switches were also the locks, there is very little reason to distinguish between the two, other than on a traditional gravity knife the knife cannot be opened without the user engaging the lever, which honestly seems to add to the negative against an axis lock, and of course out the front action on traditionals and out the side from an axis lock.

Just my opinion, never thought about it before in much detail.
 
Yes they could be considered gravity knives. Which is why I always tighten my pivots and then the problem is solved.
 
furfmonkey said:
Im a cop in NYPD and honestly we will use ANY knife clipped to your pants as an excuse for a stop question and frisk... most of the times we think the person might be wanted etc its not usually used (at least by me) to mess with people honestly any knife not on an exposed holster is a concealed weapon and an easy ticket for a rookie cop

we use it the same way we pull over for tinted windows or loud exhaust or not making a full stop... not really stopping for that just using that as a way to question and possibly have you incriminate yourself or find something on you

again cops can use this to be a jerk or only use it to get criminals off the street its up to the cops morals
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To quote Jenny Holzer: The abuse of power comes as no surprise.

To those thinking "I'm so glad I don't live in NYC"--are the police in your area really any different? How?
 
MassMatt said:
To those thinking "I'm so glad I don't live in NYC"--are the police in your area really any different? How?
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When it comes to knives, yes: they don't regularly look for pocket clips as an excuse to harass/search people, and the state and local law wouldn't give them any grounds to do so anyway. (My state/local laws permit carry of folders both concealed and openly with no blade length limit, and are written carefully enough to exclude things like assisted opening and Axis lock knives from counting as automatic or gravity knives.)

With that said, I'm sure my local cops, like any other police force, have their own ways of profiling and spuriously searching people. (And so I basically agree with your point about the abuse of power.) My point was just that, as a knife owner/user/carrier, NYC is a worse place than where I live due to the presence of police who are instructed to target pocket clips/knives and a DA who believes that pretty much any one-hand-opening knife is a switchblade or gravity knife.
 
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In Florida we can carry auto's if so inclined and more than once I've had an officer of the law ask if he could handle one "neat" knife or another that he saw me carrying. Entirely different world than NYC. Stood in line with a Trooper waiting for a big screen on Black Friday and we compared Glocks and Kershaws. Didn't know the guy from Adam nor he me.
 
Gunny Bob said:
In Florida we can carry auto's if so inclined and more than once I've had an officer of the law ask if he could handle one "neat" knife or another that he saw me carrying. Entirely different world than NYC. Stood in line with a Trooper waiting for a big screen on Black Friday and we compared Glocks and Kershaws. Didn't know the guy from Adam nor he me.
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careful with this one. i've been LEO, in FL, for quite awhile. you are correct in the sense we have no state statute specifically targeting autos or balisongs. however, our state statute defines ANY knife "other than a common pocket knife" as a "weapon" and it is illegal to conceal a weapon without a permit. now.... is an auto a "common pocket knife"? is an exposed clip "concealed"? i'm not asking you these questions, but one day a judge might. i open carry fixed blades and wish we all open carried handguns. scratch that, i wish we open carried supressed, select fire, short barelled rifles slung over our shoulders :thumbup: but not all cops you run into are going to be like ME or the guy you played 'show and tell' with :mad:

i've talked, at great length, with my co-workers about what they consider "a common pocket knife" some say a tactical folder with a clip. some say a nail nick slip joint. i've NEVER heard ONE say they consider an auto or a balisong "a common pocket knife". now, me personally.... if you're not begging to take the ride, i couldn't give the smallest little nugget of poo what kind of knife you carry. well, unless it's a Sebenza, then i really wanna see it :D

to the OP - yep, i can see how the Axis lock could be defined as a "gravity knife" :(
 
furfmonkey, you need to visit that fine teaching institue on 20 th street again based on this quote: "any knife not on an exposed holster is a concealed weapon and an easy ticket for a rookie cop"....The NYC Admin Code 10-133 bans exposed knife carry and the NYS Pl 265 is netural on exposed or concealed carry. The Sullivan Law is long gone. Not sure of your time on or rank, but you need to recheck that.
 
tom19176 said:
furfmonkey, you need to visit that fine teaching institue on 20 th street again based on this quote: "any knife not on an exposed holster is a concealed weapon and an easy ticket for a rookie cop"....The NYC Admin Code 10-133 bans exposed knife carry and the NYS Pl 265 is netural on exposed or concealed carry. The Sullivan Law is long gone. Not sure of your time on or rank, but you need to recheck that.
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iv'e been a cop over 13 years served in brownsville ,east NY,not to mention several Task forces and some other bad places in queens and bronx... you aren't a cop are you? i would guess either paralegal or law student i am well aware that ANY knife in NY is illegal but i have only seen 3 people in the last decade brazen enough to carry one in public and all 3 times they were LEO's

know your penal law we carry it in our RMP's (patrol cars) i am pretty sure i know how to do my job.. also ive written over 200 knife tickets and probably collared 200+ criminals for greater offenses by using their having a knife on them to run them for a warrant (not to mention gun collars) and get them off the street.Like i said its up to the police officers morals to use the law for good or bad

New York - Penal Law Section 265.01. A person is guilty of
criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:
(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun
gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal
knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles,
chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or
slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or
(5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a
citizen of the United States...
Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A
misdemeanor.

"Gravity knife" means any
knife has blade which is released from the handle or
sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application
of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other
device. [Note: In NYC, and potentially in other NY
jurisdictions, this definition is construed to apply to
ANY folding knife with a blade that locks open. ]
 
fufmonkey, I did not dispute that a gravity knife was illegal but rather that a concealled legal knife was.....re read my comment. With out intent to use it as a weapon being expressed by the perp or actions that you could clearly articulate to the ADA, the simple possession of a non banned knife ( ie a non flickable locking folder under 4" blade or non locking folder) does not violate any written law in NYC or NYS. When you call to authoized your arrest any knowledgeable sgt would correct those actions. The ADA would clearly DP it. In Brooklyn ( especially BKN), it is hard enough to keep gun collars moving forward on 4 th amend issues. My day was back when Espo was still in BKN and Dunne, but unless there was some dramtic change in the law, then on the concealled carry of a legal knife, you would be wrong....As to carry the Pl and CPL, in a sector car, that maybe but you were lucky to find one at the desk and the TS would write numbers all over it if you did.....You had the old cheat sheets in your memo book for easy of listing the violations on C summons .....I am not now and city employee, but if I still was I would be an old hair bag. The C's were Universal summons back then, and there was no demand to produce 250s. Great to hear that your have an impressive monthly activity sheet, but shame on you for being a member of a knife forum and writing all those C's for simple possession- you have heard of "warn and admonished "right. Yes that doesn't make your numbers but it is fair to the public.
 
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honestly i only usually use a clipped knife stop unless its when i think the person is either wanted or has drugs or a gun... or they are a person of interest and its a gateway to break the ice... i really dont care what the ada does after i get credit for my collar.. i did my job and if they want to set them free its on them.. if i stressed out over every time someone was let go on a small weed or concealed bust i would never sleep.. i do my job which is to ticket/arrest for the offense and then let the ada do their job.. if i had a dollar for every time the ada plead a good collar down for less time and more money for the state i could retire..

ive been patrol for some time now and my days of going after little crap tickets like knives etc are pretty much behind me .. i start my day holding 3 calls from last tour and i leave tour handing over 3-4 to the next tour .. i end up eating in my car while i do paperwork and spend my 63 (lunch) making sure i dont get held up by the desk sgt on my way out the door on eot (end of tour) i only stop for a knife if the persons asking for it (cursing us out already in an altercation etc) or if we are looking for a drug collar and the clipped knife is a reason to frisk from a SITLA (search incident to lawful arrest) since technically a summons is given in lieu of arrest ... giving us the right to search


and even if someone wanted to try and fight the knife you can just discon them and that solves any problem...
 
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I agree and I am sure we would be friends talking about knives if we met. In my present job, I have about 50 off duty officers working for me and I meet monthly with DA Hines and the Red ( or Blue Zone Chief they just switched them a few months back) on issues mostly concerning the people I represent now. My only issue is that there is not a all out ban on knife carry in NYC and if anything the Admin Code requires you to carry concealled. I don't disagree that your not to be concerned with the end result of the DA's actions, but I do believe that you owe the public some degree of understanding and that officers understand that not every knife is an instant collar. Without intent to use a otherwise legal knife as a weapon, there is no real violation of the law, and of course you and I know you can collar a guy for anything under the sun, even sitting on a milk crate in front of a deli, but that is the work of the conditions guys who are chasing numbers, and looking to change uions ( PBA to DEA)....any way, good luck and be careful and give those knife violators a break!....Remember it those TD guys that really go after the clipped knife arrests anyway.....
 
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