Axis lock a gravity knife?

[N4SIR]

i maybe 1 out of 10 stops actually write a summons or collar for the the knife... merely use it as a way to get them on a warrant check or find drugs etc on their person from the search i conduct....

trust me i know many bad cops who brag about all the knives they have in their lockers that they "take" off the streets.. these cops take the knives and send them on their way without a summons or arrest "letting them off the hook" but basically stealing their knife

the only times i really take the knife or make a problem out of it is if the person acts like a jerk or its an auto

 

[zignal_zero]

i maybe 1 out of 10 stops actually write a summons or collar for the the knife... merely use it as a way to get them on a warrant check or find drugs etc on their person from the search i conduct....

trust me i know many bad cops who brag about all the knives they have in their lockers that they "take" off the streets.. these cops take the knives and send them on their way without a summons or arrest "letting them off the hook" but basically stealing their knife
the only times i really take the knife or make a problem out of it is if the person acts like a jerk or its an auto

ANYTIME property is taken away, without documentation, it's DEFINATELY a theft. unfortunately, it's not limited to your area. a close friend of mine had his Stainless Colt Delta Elite stolen from him by deputies, after being arrested for a misdemeanor. losers (i can't even call them cops) like that harm the credibility of our profession as a whole

 

[N4SIR]

i hear you buddy nypd has over 30,000 personnel and if even 5% are bad thats alot... unfortunately its way too easy to get this big ego or untouchable feeling as a cop and it usually comes back to bite them in the rear...

i say treat others how you would want to be treated and for the most part it works most of my collars thank me for being so polite and not being a jerk

an old timer told me once "if you want to live to see your retirement, treat everyone the way you would want your mother or girlfriend treated"

 

[dogboye]

Loosen up the pivot pin and pull the lock bar back, and it's a gravity knife. And I have a sh**-ton of 'em, because I'm a Benchmade FREAK. And no one, NO ONE, has ever realized it is a gravity knife around me because I'm discrete.

A little discretion will save you a whole ton of trouble.

In the same manner, I don't think a single person in my office realizes that the SOG Flash II uses SOG's SAT system. Because I open it discretely, and they never know it is there.

 

[tapedeck74]

Im very happy to have visited NYC in July 2001, right before 911 and all the police state bullshit.
It was fun.
Ill never go back.

 

[N4SIR]

Im very happy to have visited NYC in July 2001, right before 911 and all the police state bullshit.
It was fun.
Ill never go back.

Can you blame NY for its new stance on weapons or ANYTHING after 9/11?

after spending 2 months sifting through rubble looking for anything to identify the dead with and seeing things i wish i could UNsee i can't blame NY for any law passed after 9/11

 

[dogboye]

Can you blame NY for its new stance on weapons or ANYTHING after 9/11?

after spending 2 months sifting through rubble looking for anything to identify the dead with and seeing things i wish i could UNsee i can't blame NY for any law passed after 9/11

Not trying to start something, but... what exactly does flying an airliner into a building have to do with carrying a pocket knife, tactical or otherwise, on the street? I'm sorry, it's a nice city (or was the last time I visited), but I most certainly CAN blame NYC for a lot of the stuff that I'm hearing about their laws. I would hope that most of the stuff I'm hearing is wrong, but with Mayor Bloomers, I dunno.

 

[N4SIR]

sigh..... it wasn't just the one incident of terrorism more like the feeling of the country as a whole. i think we are all aware of the weapons found on airline flights etc the bomb in the truck in times square etc....we get a report daily (as does every govt agency) on all high profile criminal acts around the world ..

there are literally dozens of terrorist actions or bombings etc that the public NEVER hears about..

case in point in Queens NY a nyc cops brother was found with bomb making materials and plans and pictures of 3 major bridges and tunnels... it was later found out the COP was involved in getting some of the materials if that hit the papers no one would have trusted the cops

heres another a man armed with a KNIFE takes over a nyc subway train and tries to have the conductor crash it

that never made the papers either

in brownsville brooklyn alone in the months of may to aug 2004 324 guns and 416 concealed knives were taken off people walking the streets


there is a reason we have the laws trust me

edit: forgot to say how i knew/remembered the numbers i was part of a task force and received a commendation for my efforts

 

[Christian]

in brownsville brooklyn alone in the months of may to aug 2004 324 guns and 416 concealed knives were taken off people walking the streets

How many of these confiscated knives were taken from normal Joe's? Or were they all gangbangers?

 

[zignal_zero]

Furfmonkey -

you actually sound like a decent cop with his head on straight and his heart in the right place if i could get ya to look at something from a different perspective, for just a second though. you say there's a reason your state has such strict laws concerning weapons. you also cite several criminal acts bordering on terrorism. well.... do these laws seem effective? i mean you have all the laws AND all the problems, it just doesn't jibe, bro

in our cities, you can throw a Glock in your glove compartment, an AK across the back seat, strap a fixed blade to your hip, and go about your business. yet, most people who have lived in both places will tell you they feel safer in FL.

don't be too quick to fall into the logic - we have strict laws because we have high crime. people used to believe the sun went around the Earth because they saw it happen day in and day out. it's quite possible that the exact opposite is true - you have high crime because you have strict laws

my heart truly goes out to EVERYBODY (LE, FD, Civilians) who had to deal with the 9/11 incident. however, NO i don't feel it excuses ANY infringement on individual liberty at all.

 

[dutch_0311]

iv'e been a cop over 13 years served in brownsville ,east NY,not to mention several Task forces and some other bad places in queens and bronx... you aren't a cop are you? i would guess either paralegal or law student i am well aware that ANY knife in NY is illegal but i have only seen 3 people in the last decade brazen enough to carry one in public and all 3 times they were LEO's

know your penal law we carry it in our RMP's (patrol cars) i am pretty sure i know how to do my job.. also ive written over 200 knife tickets and probably collared 200+ criminals for greater offenses by using their having a knife on them to run them for a warrant (not to mention gun collars) and get them off the street.Like i said its up to the police officers morals to use the law for good or bad

New York - Penal Law Section 265.01. A person is guilty of
criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:
(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun
gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal
knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles,
chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or
slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or
(5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a
citizen of the United States...
Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A
misdemeanor.

"Gravity knife" means any
knife has blade which is released from the handle or
sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application
of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other
device. [Note: In NYC, and potentially in other NY
jurisdictions, this definition is construed to apply to
ANY folding knife with a blade that locks open. ]

Hey furfmonkey, I am a police officer in upstate NY. In NYC, there may be specific laws against carrying knives openly in public, but that s**t doesn't fly in most upstate jurisdictions. As far as the definition of "gravity knife" goes, that is open to interpretation (and obviously abused in NYC). Where I am from, if I were to arrest and charge somebody with CPW4 for carrying say a Gerber Paraframe, I would probably have my ass handed to me in court by not only the defense attorney, but also by the judge. Your statement saying that "ANY knife in NY is illegal" is just simply not true. If it were the case, the Penal Law wouldnt specify illegal knife types, it would just say "a knife". Also large chains like Dicks Sporting Good and even Walmart would not be able to sell pocket knives if this were the case. I carry a Strider SnG and gravity has absoutely no influence on whether the blade opens or not, my hand and fingers do.

I take pocket knives off people everyday during pat downs and searches and unless it is an automatic/switchblade knife or some crazy thing like a knuckle knife, I give them the knife right back as long as they aren't placed under arrest for whatever reason. Never once would I ever try and conjur up a BS weapons posession charge for a pocket knife just to give myself another scratch in the book. Thats just simply asinine in my opinion.

Seeing a pocket clip on somebody, especially someone that is walking along and minding their own business, does not give me a free stop and search. Just because I see the clip, how do I know it is an "illegal" knife?? Also, your statement above about using a pocket knife for the PRIMARY cause for a free stop and frisk makes you sound like a bully looking to get your next pat on the back by your supervisor.

LEOs are already looked upon negatively enough by the public, let's not make things worse by using something as simple as carrying a pocket knife in public to stop and frisk someone. People have been freely carrying pocket knives for a hundred+ years without issue. I can just as easily stab and kill someone with a pen from my pocket as I could with a pocket knife.

I'll be awaiting your rebuttle. Thanks!

 

[N4SIR]

How many of these confiscated knives were taken from normal Joe's? Or were they all gangbangers?

Brownsville has the worst gang problems probably in all of NY . The Bloods and the kripps are fighting over that precinct.. they tie bandannas around poles to mark territory.. i would have to say there is at least 1-2 gang related murders a week (usually retaliation) its pretty much the worst in NY bronx is pretty close also..


to answer another question i dont really see a buig need to carry a gun or a knife in a city like NY . everything is at hand you could ever want or need.. short of the occasional box to open theres no heavy knife use tasks (maybe job specific) as far as denying people their liberties.. eh im all for right to carry etc but when your working in a warzone where people die almost daily the less weapons on the street the better.. being a cop in NY is probably 100x different than being a cop in FL unless its orlando miami dae or maybe some other bad areas.. i have family in FL and ive been to jacksonville gainesville ocala and orlando and saw nothing close to what nyc is like

 

[N4SIR]

Hey furfmonkey, I am a police officer in upstate NY. In NYC, there may be specific laws against carrying knives openly in public, but that s**t doesn't fly in most upstate jurisdictions. As far as the definition of "gravity knife" goes, that is open to interpretation (and obviously abused in NYC). Where I am from, if I were to arrest and charge somebody with CPW4 for carrying say a Gerber Paraframe, I would probably have my ass handed to me in court by not only the defense attorney, but also by the judge. Your statement saying that "ANY knife in NY is illegal" is just simply not true. If it were the case, the Penal Law wouldnt specify illegal knife types, it would just say "a knife". Also large chains like Dicks Sporting Good and even Walmart would not be able to sell pocket knives if this were the case. I carry a Strider SnG and gravity has absoutely no influence on whether the blade opens or not, my hand and fingers do.

I take pocket knives off people everyday during pat downs and searches and unless it is an automatic/switchblade knife or some crazy thing like a knuckle knife, I give them the knife right back as long as they aren't placed under arrest for whatever reason. Never once would I ever try and conjur up a BS weapons posession charge for a pocket knife just to give myself another scratch in the book. Thats just simply asinine in my opinion.

Seeing a pocket clip on somebody, especially someone that is walking along and minding their own business, does not give me a free stop and search. Just because I see the clip, how do I know it is an "illegal" knife?? Also, your statement above about using a pocket knife for the PRIMARY cause for a free stop and frisk makes you sound like a bully looking to get your next pat on the back by your supervisor.

LEOs are already looked upon negatively enough by the public, let's not make things worse by using something as simple as carrying a pocket knife in public to stop and frisk someone. People have been freely carrying pocket knives for a hundred+ years without issue. I can just as easily stab and kill someone with a pen from my pocket as I could with a pocket knife.

I'll be awaiting your rebuttle. Thanks!

well all of what i have to say applies to where i work which is 5 boroughs ny and queens if your town lets it go then thats fine .. i know in more rural areas where people arent stabbed or robbed at knifepoint the laws are more lax obviously you must live in a place like this... im not here to argue knife laws or any of that but in NYC we see a knife on a person we can stop and summons and as you know being a LEO a summons is in lieu of an arrest..

sure ive been to the judge or ada and had them throw out a summons or an arrest but 1 out of 100 is still a good ratio to me i doubt you make 100 arrests in a year let alone a few months.. we make arrests daily we could literally make arrests multiple times a day if we had the time..

what i said multiple times in my posts was that we USE the knife as a reason to stop and run the person for a warrant .. obviously we dont stop a mother on her way home or a man minding his business .. we are stopping people we already have our eye on and are acting in a suspicious manner.. like i said also before 9 times out of 10 i dont write a summons merely stop question run them for a warrant and send them on their way... you have to understand being a cop in one of the worst precincts in the united states .. not to offend but i doubt you see the amount of crime and violence i see daily in a month

 

[dogboye]

heres another a man armed with a KNIFE takes over a nyc subway train and tries to have the conductor crash it

Out of all you posted, that is the only thing that is relevant to my question.

416 knives concealed knives taken off of people walking the streets. So what? Why were they taken? Had the perps ... I mean, suspects... threatened someone? Or had a knife clip been seen, and an officer decided to detain them for the reasons you mentioned above (which, by the way, ... well, nevermind, I'm not going to go there). The statement, "416 concealed knives were taken off people walking the streets," in and of itself, can mean: (1) all or a percentage were taken illegally because there was nothing wrong with them carrying them other than an officer's phobia; (2) the laws are too strict... no, just plain f***ed up; (3) 416 people committed crimes that may or may not have had anything to do with knives, and during the booking, knives that may or not have actually been illegal were confiscated, perhaps legally, perhaps no more legally than Bloomer's task-forces going outside NY state trying to trap legitimate gun dealers for the sake of gun control.

Don't get me wrong, or don't take this all as just a personal insult. Anyone, AND I DO MEAN ANYONE, that is willing to put on a uniform and wear it as a possible target (be that person military or law enforcement) has a high level of respect from me right out of the starting gate. You, sir, by the very reason of being law enforcement, start off this discussion from the top of a pillar, IMO. But some of the things you've asserted just since I've entered this discussion have shaken that pillar, and for that I am saddened.

 

[dogboye]

ive been to jacksonville gainesville ocala and orlando and saw nothing close to what nyc is like

Why do you think that is, just out of curiosity. Not a challenge. I'm just trying to get a better feel of where you're coming from (the previous posts, and portions of the one I quoted this from, don't really help me understand that, honestly).



Edited to add:

what i said multiple times in my posts was that we USE the knife as a reason to stop and run the person for a warrant .. obviously we dont stop a mother on her way home or a man minding his business .. we are stopping people we already have our eye on and are acting in a suspicious manner.. like i said also before 9 times out of 10 i dont write a summons merely stop question run them for a warrant and send them on their way... you have to understand being a cop in one of the worst precincts in the united states .. not to offend but i doubt you see the amount of crime and violence i see daily in a month

OK, this helps, a lot. I wish I had seen it, but maybe I was still writing my previous post, or this one.

I still wouldn't mind, though, if you don't mind, an answer to the question in the first part of my post here. Just for... I dunno... discussion sake? It always helps to try to understand the perspective of where a person is coming from when you disagree with them, or think you do.

 

[N4SIR]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownsville,_Brooklyn



heres a quote" in 2003, the United States Army Medical Corps established a training program in an emergency room that has received 600 cases per year of gunshot and stabbing victims"


4 times ive seen people on the street shoot at police cars frequently stores have bulletholes in the windows violent crime is rampant.

http://nymag.com/news/features/crime/2008/42604/

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local...violent_deaths_and_robbery_statistics_ar.html


i dont know how else to explain it go google brownsville brooklyn and the word crime or murder i work in a friggin warzone i wear 2 guns 2 knives a bulletproof vest with a ballistc plate 2 batons and i still dont feel safe walk a mile in my shoes and see if you would say anything

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW8ZXrps9ys watch this and then this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_BxeQXhjuw&feature=related

and then talk to me about pocket knives i think im done replying about this im off duty and dont need to think about what i see all day

 

[dogboye]

i dont know how else to explain it go google brownsville brooklyn and the word crime or murder i work in a friggin warzone i wear 2 guns 2 knives a bulletproof vest with a ballistc plate 2 batons and i still dont feel safe walk a mile in my shoes and see if you would say anything

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW8ZXrps9ys watch this and then this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_BxeQXhjuw&feature=related

and then talk to me about pocket knives i think im done replying about this im off duty and dont need to think about what i see all day

I feel bad for you, sir. I really do. Having to work in that. I did notice, though, that it has been going on now for over 100 years. Seriously. OVER 100 FRIGGIN' YEARS! Good grief!

The laws ain't doing anything though. I mean, really. Other than giving you guys tools. But I can see where you're coming from now. You're not talking Manhattan, are ya. Geez. You're right back up there on that pillar, IMO. I had no idea.

If you ever head down to MD, I'd definitely be up for buying you a beer, if you drink.

ps - I apologize if I was an ass.

 

[N4SIR]

i have had to ride in an ambulance with a 4yr old shooting victim crying for his mother who was dead on the street.. a retaliation for a opposing gang murder the day before i went home and cried on my wifes shoulder and asked her how im supposed to go to work the next day and how im not making ANY difference... she told me because you do the job no one else will .. most people run from gunshots we run TOWARDS them...


the little boy died before he got to the hospital.. thats why i was so upset.. i still have nightmares of his face and sometime i think of my son whos 6 and it makes me choke up

 

[dogboye]

It sounds like you have done your "time in the barrel." Don't let it make you crazy.

I'd just sh** myself.

 

[KennyB]

i have had to ride in an ambulance with a 4yr old shooting victim crying for his mother who was dead on the street.. a retaliation for a opposing gang murder the day before i went home and cried on my wifes shoulder and asked her how im supposed to go to work the next day and how im not making ANY difference... she told me because you do the job no one else will .. most people run from gunshots we run TOWARDS them...


the little boy died before he got to the hospital.. thats why i was so upset.. i still have nightmares of his face and sometime i think of my son whos 6 and it makes me choke up

The ends certainly justify the means in your situation, but it's still a blatant circumvention of the 4th amendment to stop someone because of their knife and then search after you've arrested them. I mean, technically it might be legal, and a powerful tool to help fight crime in neighborhoods like yours (and really a good thing when you look at it from that perspective), but to me it just opens itself up to an awful lot of abuse by other cops whose goals might be a little less earnest.

Or in other words... If you use a knife stop to search and find crack on some dealer you want to arrest, then I don't really see it as a bad thing and it seems like it helps to fight crime in an area that needs it.

On the other hand, if there's officers out there using knife search to stop people they think have a little weed or something just to get the arrests on their record, I think that's pretty unfortunate.

So I mean, yeah, nothing against you since it seems like you're taking advantage of it to fight violent crime, but it also opens it up for other officers to take advantage of it and arrest people who may not exactly be as deserving of it as some of the guys you're going after--drug violators and the like instead of violent offenders. I mean, like you say, you don't stop the guy that just looks like he's on his way home, but what about other cops? Seems like you've said a lot of them already use it as a way to get cool new knives for themselves.

Seems like a real catch .22. On the one hand you've got a powerful way to go after criminals in a neighborhood that needs it, but on the other hand it also gives less earnest the cop more power to make less earnest arrests and stops.

As far as the gravity knife issue goes, doesn't it also depend a lot on what the DA wants to pursue? My state has wording very similar to the NYC statute where it says, "...any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement..." but in asking LEO, many of the knives I have that would fall under this are still considered legal, so it can be very confusing.