Axis lock a gravity knife?

[yablanowitz]

If you pull back the lock bar, yes, it is a gravity knife.

Not really. A real gravity knife is locked shut and cannot be opened without releasing the latch. Axis lock knives can be opened without touching the lock. But that is reality, and we're talking about Law here. The two are not related.

 

[Charlie Mike]

Not really. A real gravity knife is locked shut and cannot be opened without releasing the latch. Axis lock knives can be opened without touching the lock. But that is reality, and we're talking about Law here. The two are not related.

Very (sad but) true. I wish common law (no crime without a victim) was more common.

 

[Mal2]

iv'e been a cop over 13 years....

New York - Penal Law Section 265.01. A person is guilty of
criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:
(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun
gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal
knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles,
chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or
slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or
(5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a
citizen of the United States...
Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A
misdemeanor.

"Gravity knife" means any
knife has blade which is released from the handle or
sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application
of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other
device. [Note: In NYC, and potentially in other NY
jurisdictions, this definition is construed to apply to
ANY folding knife with a blade that locks open. ]

Tell me where I'm wrong here. I feel like this statute was one of those things put in place to further penalize those committing other crimes and possessing weapons. The issue I put in bold print obviously characterizes most normal folding knives concealed or not as legal. Further the other characteristics do not eliminate the normal folding knife of most any size. In other words illegal if and only if "with the intent to use the same unlawfully against another" or the other items specifically mentioned (stilleto, dirk and so forth...) but not the normal folder.

The note at the end I doubt is anything other than a warning not to carry a knife put in after the fact with no legal standing.

You have obviously put your own spin on the law and I'm surprised you admitted it. I would go on about how this is still a relatively free country even if the city isn't. I just now realize how illegal I have often been in the city according to you but I still contend not according to the law.

Having said all that I really can't say I blame you or it's not the right thing to do but I would be careful admitting it and then posting the statute. I really think it's the slippery slope that is oft used when discussing guns. (I'll spare you the whole spiel; you've likely heard it many times.) It's comforting to the criminal who can and will posses a gun to know that the average law abiding citizen will definitely not be armed. I suppose in the city, that applies to knives as well. Not according to the law but according to the practices of the police.

I don't blame you but I would agree with a previous post that stopping an otherwise law abiding citizen when you see he posses a pocket knife would be an abuse of power and any further legal action downright ridiculous. The statute as you quoted it is reasonable; your interpretation of it is an aberration no doubt caused by harsh realities of the city and too long in that arena.

 

[hatidua]

i dont really see a buig need to carry a gun or a knife in a city like NY .

It's a little hard to square that statement away with all the other posts about how bad the crime is in NY. Most everyone I know who carries a concealed handgun isn't doing it out of a desire to take up slack in their pants.

I realize laws in NY are very different than many other places in the U.S. concerning knives and guns, but if people were 100% guaranteed that they would not fall victim to crime, handgun sales would plummet. The reality is that no city can give that level of assurance, hence why many of us carry daily.

 

[N4SIR]

i should have clarified where i live its safe not to carry... there has never been a murder in my town ever i live in a little tiny suburban town 35 miles from nyc ... where i work on the other hand people should be allowed to carry bazookas and they should just tactically nuke the area and start over (brownsville brooklyn) check out some nice you tube vids on that place and you will see why... try typing bloods or cripps or gangs along with it .. pretty much anywhere in NY that isnt the 5 boroughs is pretty safe certain parts etc.. but for the most part its the inner city over run with welfare housing and gangs that is the problem and cause for the gun and knife laws being so strict

 

[ReggieK2]

"They should tactically nuke the entire area and start all over again..." Is no one else disturbed by this kind of talk? Living in welfare housing does not make all people criminals and gangbangers deserving to be nuked. When I was a kid I did live in such housing briefly because we were poor and dad struggled to support us in a community that was hostile to most people of color. By your standard my family and friends would have been those nuked too. This is some kind of quilt by association with a community. We Smiths (the family name) eventually fled the inner city and all of us went to college on scholarships; my parents had always aspired to do better, and we did. I spent thirty-seven years teaching in an inner city community because I wished to help other kids find those same avenues of escape from poverty that I had. I saw many good kids fly free during those years, but I also taught many kids who fell victim to the poverty that surrounds them. I would hope that cops who work in such communities could maintain clear vision and distinguish good from bad. Unfortunately, I fear that many do see their jobs as you do. Indeed, when I was much younger I and others of us teachers would occasionally fall victim to those cops who seemed to think that we must be bad guys simply because we entered and exited the community each day going to our jobs. We attempted to stop this problem by requiring the police personnel live in and be an active part of city life. That ruling certainly brought with it all kinds of other problems, but it was an honest effort to avoid the thinking above. When I was young our real urban problem were the young children of the Italian, and Irish families who were first and second generation immigrants. Many of their families hustled jobs in their own black market enterprises (many of them illegal). I'm thinking of Jimmy Brown, Dominic Lumetta, James Dougherty and others. Jimmy's dad was found murdered and the adults in the neighborhood all knew that he had underworld connections and that his death was a gang related killing. The gangs were Irish and Italian. Jimmy had become my best friend and he was a great kid, but his Mom moved the family away after her husband was murdered. Soon all of us moved away. A generation passed, times changed but now there is a new crop of toughs on those city blocks and most people have forgotten who used to roam the streets before. We talk about nuking the inner cities and we use coded language to avoid saying aloud that they are populated by Blacks, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and other newer ethnic aliens. I am just shocked to find such simplistic, disguised and seemingly bigoted comments in this knife forum. We can not know who may be a member. ReggieK

 

[N4SIR]

Nice troll job..... 1st post? really nice try... i actually have no problems with people of ANY color and to insinuate otherwise makes you look like you look like a fool .... please to get all huffy over what is obviously not a serious comment is silly

obviously i have a thick skin im a tattoo covered white guy working in the worst gang crime ridden place in the state of NY.. i would think you actually living there would be a little less childish

get over yourself... this is an internet knife forum not a soap box


I hope you dont act like this on the street ... the dealers and gang members would eat you alive man...

no worries im reporting this to the mods

you said : "we use coded language to avoid saying aloud that they are populated by Blacks, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and other newer ethnic aliens. I am just shocked to find such simplistic, disguised and seemingly bigoted comments in this knife forum. We can not know who may be a member."


it seems YOU have the racial issues kid... grow up

 

[dogboye]

What's wrong with nukes?!

 

[KnifeKnut66]

Im a cop in NYPD and honestly we will use ANY knife clipped to your pants as an excuse for a stop question and frisk... most of the times we think the person might be wanted etc its not usually used (at least by me) to mess with people honestly any knife not on an exposed holster is a concealed weapon and an easy ticket for a rookie cop

we use it the same way we pull over for tinted windows or loud exhaust or not making a full stop... not really stopping for that just using that as a way to question and possibly have you incriminate yourself or find something on you

again cops can use this to be a jerk or only use it to get criminals off the street its up to the cops morals

Just another way to get around illegeal search and siezure. Typical cop BS.....

 

[Esav Benyamin]

... where i work on the other hand people should be allowed to carry bazookas and they should just tactically nuke the area and start over (brownsville brooklyn)

I'm not sure how to take this but it strikes me as a lot more trollish than anything posted by ReggieK2. He comes across as a gentleman with real sympathy for people who are not doing well, for whatever reason.

We need police to control criminals. We don't need police telling the rest of us to be quiet and obey orders.

WE are not the trolls for thinking you have a militarized attitude.

 

[SavageSmurf]

NYC law classifies any knife that can be opened with centrifugal force an illegal gravity knife. You hold down the axis lock and the knife can be flipped open, one-handed, by making use of centrifugal force. If an officer of the law is so inclined, he could rightfully issue you a ticket for having it concealed (as long as he knows how to operate the lock). I dont agree with this law AT ALL; being from New York it makes me sick that our District Attorney can get away with stripping us of our constitutional rights. To answer your question however, there's a great chance that an officer would be able to hold down the axis lock and flick your knife open with ease, resulting in it being perceived as a gravity knife. His perception is the one that counts in court, regardless of whether or not it's justified.

 

[Charlie Mike]

Can you blame NY for its new stance on weapons or ANYTHING after 9/11?

Work that thought backwards. 9-11 was an inside job. It gives guys like you a sense of justification (and a cause of action) for disarming law abiding citizens, basically anyone who doesn't wear a badge. When will you realize you have been used? I was a stormtrooper once.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Charlie Mike, please keep the conspiracy theory political talk out of this forum.

 

[N4SIR]

I'm not sure how to take this but it strikes me as a lot more trollish than anything posted by ReggieK2. He comes across as a gentleman with real sympathy for people who are not doing well, for whatever reason.

We need police to control criminals. We don't need police telling the rest of us to be quiet and obey orders.

WE are not the trolls for thinking you have a militarized attitude.

did you even bother to read the other posts i made in this thread? maybe you should before Assuming things Mod or not..... it doesnt take a genius to see a person who creates an account and makes 1 post the same day calling me basically a racist is a troll.. And reggie calling me a bigot and a racist (in so many words) is OK???? (BTW I have heard that tactial nuke joke about 100 times in brooklyn manhattan etc first time was by a DA and a chief Inspector for the nypd) its for starting the city over not exterminating ethnic groups (thats reggies psychosis)

if this is how mods handle BS like this i think its time for me to move on to a different forum... its pretty clear you didn't read any of my other replies and have chosen to side with a 1 post troll over a 3 year member ... I am on duty so i have to get back to protecting the same people who talk crap about me ....

 

[N4SIR]

Work that thought backwards. 9-11 was an inside job. It gives guys like you a sense of justification (and a cause of action) for disarming law abiding citizens, basically anyone who doesn't wear a badge. When will you realize you have been used? I was a stormtrooper once.

Take your meds...

 

[Mal2]

NYC law classifies any knife that can be opened with centrifugal force an illegal gravity knife. You hold down the axis lock and the knife can be flipped open, one-handed, by making use of centrifugal force. If an officer of the law is so inclined, he could rightfully issue you a ticket for having it concealed (as long as he knows how to operate the lock). I dont agree with this law AT ALL; being from New York it makes me sick that our District Attorney can get away with stripping us of our constitutional rights. To answer your question however, there's a great chance that an officer would be able to hold down the axis lock and flick your knife open with ease, resulting in it being perceived as a gravity knife. His perception is the one that counts in court, regardless of whether or not it's justified.

I must repeat that I really don't think it's the law at all. It's just the NYPD's twisted interpretation of the law. I'm sure it was done for righteous reasons and now serves either to make contact with and detain someone suspected of illegal activities or, on the dark side, to hassle otherwise law abiding folks to stroke their ego and sense of power over another. Possibly the innocent are detained to simply to get their stats up as was described in another thread. I wonder how often an otherwise innocent person actually ends up in court over this interpretation and what the outcome is.

What is interesting to me is that offensively the only really important thing is blade length. In an attack made on an unsuspecting victim or in using a knife as a threat in say, a mugging, a two handed opening slip joint is every bit as effective as a full on auto. Defensively is the time a quick deploying knife shines. Wouldn't want one of those poor muggers threatened with a defensive blade or the possibility of one being available?!

As to 9-11 if everyone aboard those planes had a reasonable knife; it wouldn't even have been attempted. Unfortunately this sort of thing is possible only when the law abiding majority is disarmed by well meaning politicians. It's a slippery slope with no way back....

 

[N4SIR]

"Gravity knife" means any
knife has blade which is released from the handle or
sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application
of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other
device. [Note: In NYC, and potentially in other NY
jurisdictions, this definition is construed to apply to
ANY folding knife with a blade that locks open. ]


I am NOT saying i agree with this.... but it is MY JOB to enforce when necessary... i understand it is hard for a stranger who does not live or has not seen firsthand the murders and gang violence in NYC but understand its really that bad anyone saying otherwise .. is either lying or trying to fulfill some other agenda..

this is where about 40% of all murders and gun and knife violence occurs in NYC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW8ZXrps9ys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEg1nJ0_Z64

 

[tom19176]

Mal2, The court system has up held the "flickable" knife as a gravity knife time and time again. I can tell you that a few months back in Brooklyn a Gerber Gator was determined to be a gravity knife by the judge in a pre trial discovery hearing to determine the knife in question meet the requirment of a gravity knife. The only time I have seen the question go either way is wheter or not holding the blade and flicking the handle open qualifies as a gravity knife. On this point I have seen two judges allow them to declared one, and about six other not hold this to be true.
The facts are that clear, and your like or dislike of them is meaningless in the way the court reviews this issue. Until such time as Kniferights gets the NYS Court of Appeals to think your way, the law is being properly enforced. There is a good ground work for trying to change the wording of the law, or high court interpertation of it, based on the fact that when this law was passed in 1958, these "flickable" knives were made in NYS and sold everywhere for years, but that has changed and there is several books full of cases showing what the courts feel now. NYC enforces this to the extreme, but always remember it is state law they are enfoceing.

 

[EricV]

Because clearly, so many of those murders in NY are committed with axis lock knives...

The idea that a person thinks that the way a knife opens makes it more deadly is just so incredibly deranged it shouldn't even need discussion, let alone otherwise good people enforcing a misconstrued interpretation of ridiculously silly law.

The Axis lock is by far the most easily picked on, but its like the window tints or loud exhaust guys getting pulled over, are there really not enough speeders driving around out there?

 

[Mal2]

.... i understand it is hard for a stranger who does not live or has not seen firsthand the murders and gang violence in NYC but understand its really that bad anyone saying otherwise .. is either lying or trying to fulfill some other agenda..

I have heard no one.... no one disagree with or even not understand the murders and gang violence in NYC; much less do any "lying". The only "agenda" seems to me to be a little thing called personal freedom as guaranteed in the second and fourth amendments of the Constitution. Who was it that said those that sacrifice personal freedom for safety deserve neither? I would arguably contend the note NYC added to a reasonable statute sacrifices both.

I get it. Your job sucks. The place you work is dangerous. I wouldn't do your job for all the tea in China but, on the other hand; I have made a few sacrifices for your safety as well. Neither sacrifice is relevant. I understand you must enforce the laws as they are, to a point. You're a saint for the sacrifices you make to keep my worthless pink body safe. Can we move on?

The note you keep quoting, coloring and bolding just doesn't make sense. The rest of the statute does. The note literally says that gravity knife equals locking knife. Anyone the least bit familiar with knives knows that is ridiculous.

I just wonder how it got there, if it's really a part of the law, if it holds up in court or has even been tested. The bit about "possibly other jurisdictions" just adds to how silly it sounds and adds to the creeping removal of rights. The fact that NYPD uses it to violate 4th amendment rights just adds more fuel to the fire. Has it made your AOR any less violent?

I also thought Reggie's post both reasonable and relevant and your attacks uncalled for and neither reasonable nor relevant. Even if justified, retribution is at least unbecoming. Moderators are here to enforce forum rules not to limit first amendment rights, yours, Reggie's or even mine. Post counts or time on the forum cannot be used as either weapon or excuse. Posts have to stand on their own merits or lack thereof. The oft used term "nuking" that elicited Reggie's post tends to unfairly lump a large group of people into one characteristic whether they deserve it or not and becomes even more offensive to some by it's very nature even if not taken literally.

Finally; being intimately familiar with the events of 9-11; I totally agree with your medical advice to CM.

Edit; just saw your post Tom; thanks. I totally understand a judge ruling a knife illegal when involved in any case where violence is involved or it is used in another crime. It is whether flickable or not. Do you know of any cases where an otherwise law abiding individual has been prosecuted for only the fact that he had a folder that locks in his possession?