Axis lock opinion?

[crimsonfalcon07]

I really like the AXIS lock. It's one of my favorite lock types due to ease of use, and I think if you really think about how it functions, it's clearly a very strong lock. After all, it uses a reinforced locking pin that is held in place by the liners and frame of the knife, and because it locks up vertical, and perpendicular to the angle of cutting, it's essentially impossible for blade degradation or slight design flaws in the knife to affect its performance, unlike the frame lock or liner lock. If the blade shape isn't quite right where a liner lock/frame lock meets the blade, you can have all kinds of issues, from blade play, to a lock that will release, or be hard to engage. You won't have that same issue with the AXIS, and there are documented stress tests that show just how strong the mechanism really is.

It's also very smooth, and easy to flip open and closed one-handed (which is true of very few other lock types), and you can close it safely with one hand, unlike the similar Spyderco ball-bearing lock, which I also like, but less than the AXIS lock, because it's so much harder to disengage with one hand, especially with your fingers away from the blade.

The one downside to the lock is that your fingernail can get stuck on the spring on the lock, which can be annoying or even painful.

Also worth mentioning that it's the lock of choice for Doug Ritter, and is featured in his RSK1, which is possibly the best value folder on the market. You might be interested in what he had to say about it: http://www.equipped.com/pop_up_axis_lock.htm

 

[Buffalohump]

In terms of sheer useability, its my favourite along with the compression lock and the back lock.

As for strength, reliability, all that.... well, I dont use my folders hard enough to feel qualified to comment.

 

[JNewell]

Have anyone noticed the placement of the three holes (pivot, stop pin, axis bar) on the frame can sometimes be dangerously close, weakening the overall frame around this areas?

Saw a picture of Enlan EL02. Patent dispute aside, does any of BM have similar placement? Someone with mechanical or civil engineer ing background can analyze? The applied force during opening/closing, normal usage against edge, and against back/spine.

In order for it to be dangerous, you'd have to be able to force the lockbar through the liners. Even on a lightweight knife like the 530, I can't imagine that happening, and I don't recall any field reports or internet video "tests" where that happened.

 

[Socom Elite]

I would say that the axis is a good bit stronger, easier, and simplier. Most think the framelock is a pretty simple design, but it's not. There are grind angles, radius, lock relief cuts to worry about. Don't believe me then check out Terzuola's book. Many pages are used to explain how to get it right.

There are a lot of people, including very well known custom makers that have a hard time making a solid framelock

I think the cutout is a weakness

Here read this about framelocks. STR says that none tested took 100 LBS of force. Scroll down till you see the pic that I posted
http://strsbackyardknifeworks.blogs...-max=2010-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=34

 

[EricV]

^It might have failed but it failed safely.
IMO if an axis lock fails there's nothing stopping the blade from hitting your fingers, because the lock itself has a bias towards leaving the tang. Makes them a better design to me, but its very important to have the right angled face on the tang where the lockbar engages it, which isn't all that common. Obviously everyone has a different opinion.

 

[cziv]

That was an excellent explanation of the framelock design, it's strengths and weaknesses. Food for thought to be sure.

I'm wondering about lockup issues on these folders. Like, how does the depth of the lockbar, as seated against the blade tang impact a failure?

There are a couple of makers I have in mind who are known and advertise that their framelocks are early...e.g. 25% to 30% locking depth as being a good thing. Is it a good thing regarding future wear of the lock face or resistance to failure?

When I look at a frame or liner lock with a very early lockup, I always feel a bit nervous about it possibly failing "catastrophically" meaning popping off of the blade tang and releasing the blade to swing freely and possible inflicting deep wounds or worse.

As compared to the pictured failure which is a "later" lockup and it's failure being in such a direction as to fix the blade's position and not being an extreme safety hazard.

 

[Blop]

^It might have failed but it failed safely.
IMO if an axis lock fails there's nothing stopping the blade from hitting your fingers, because the lock itself has a bias towards leaving the tang. Makes them a better design to me, but its very important to have the right angled face on the tang where the lockbar engages it, which isn't all that common. Obviously everyone has a different opinion.

Who tells you, the liner might have not slipped out under that pressure? That would have been the next. What is safe about this lock after 100 pounds of pressure, regarding a lock, that will withstand a lot more force? BM has had advertised 800 pounds. OK, i don´t know, how to take that information right, but it may be a bit more that 100?

Considering the axis lock: It doesn´t have to be right anled. Who says that? It is just important, that the bar travels a bit more than 1 mm up the tang. I have had a failing 520 and have noticed the difference to my 806 and 550. If the bar has traveled that far enough, you may spine whack that thing as hard as you want but wouldn´t make that lock fail. Maybe the knife or blade will break.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

In order for it to be dangerous, you'd have to be able to force the lockbar through the liners. Even on a lightweight knife like the 530, I can't imagine that happening, and I don't recall any field reports or internet video "tests" where that happened.

Exactly my point.

If the cutouts are so close together as the EL02 example, between the axis & stop pin, won't it reduce the amount of force requires to shear through the liners? On most of other axis lock available, usually the stop pin is placed more forward, near the edge of the handle/frame. This result in more material present between the cutouts.

The only reason the stop pin usually being put 'behind' or backward against pivot is usually reserved for liner/frame lock, where it forms a 'triangle' of stop pin, pivot, & lockbar. For axis design,this is not needed, as the dynamics are different.

 

[Alberta Ed]

The Axis Lock is a brilliant design, IMHO. Never had a problem with my Mini-Rukus; after tens of thousands of cycles it's still rock solid.

 

[Tripton]

Used an axis lock a lot, never had any broken springs or failures.

I HAVE had a few liner locks and frame locks fail. Generally, while I was doing something stupid.

 

[dhwfd46]

Ford/Chevy, Harley/Honda, Fuel Injection/Carburetor ; this is a debate that will remain just that.:jerkit:

I carry a CPM-M4 bladed WilkinsGrip Ritter with the Axis lock and an M390 bladed AFCK liner lock, daily. I'm a 18 year veteran career firefighter and a week never passes that I'm not involved in some type of construction project. I use my knives pretty hard. I routinely maintain my knives and I've broken/wore out a few "good quality" knives.

The Axis lock is ambidextrous and enables you to open and close the blade easily without touching it. You can pull back on the Axis bar and flip the blade open and closed and impress all of you friends with your pseudo bali-song, so long as it's relatively clean and the blade tension is adjusted. The lock works well and is neat. Does it have weaknesses? Well, again all things are subjective. Yes, the omega springs can break and it has to be taken apart and cleaned properly when it gets funked up with pocket lint and dust. The axis bar is harder to disengage when wearing gloves.

I've been doing a chimney demolition and after one day of being in my pocket with all of the masonry dust in the air, the Axis lock is full of grit and is definitely limping! the knife was carried tip up with the lock mechanism buried in my pocket yet it's full of abrasive dust and the only lube on it was a minute smidgen of grease on the washers when it was taken apart. The knife had just been completely disassembled and thoroughly cleaned the day before! Guess what, it already needs it again. Not a huge problem for a guy who can sit at his workbench and take it apart again at the end of the day, but it is a PITA!

You can't just hose out an Axis lock with hot water and WD-40 and get it back to normal. Now, how did the liner lock AFCK fare, which was tip down with the "action" directly exposed to all of the airborne dust? Well I rinsed both knives out the best i could with some hot water and dried them and the liner lock doesn't even remember being dirty. The KISS theory applies here and it works. That's why the guys wearing camo in the desert carry Striders and Hinderers. Less parts = more dependable!

It's all in what you need, want and like. I suspect that most of the reported failures of frame/liner locks are from tests designed to prove a point, not illustrate real world conditions. When a knife is being used, the pressure is being applied to the stop pin not the lock. Guess what? If you chuck up a frame lock in a vise and whack the spine with a sledge hammer, it's going to fail.

In the real world, if I had to choose, I'd opt for the mechanical simplicity and utter reliability of a well executed frame/ liner lock. I use my knives fairly hard but I don't stab trees or phone books or hang Volkswagens from them to see if I CAN break them.

Back to the OP's question; yes the axis lock is good, but it all depends on what kind of environment you'll expose it to and your ability to maintain it properly.

 

[mmarkh]

I love the Axis lock on my M2 Mini Ritter.

 

[riderV3]

Wow sounds like my next knife will be an axis lock...

 

[JNewell]

A couple of things on that...

First, the Enlan isn't a Benchmade, and I don't think Benchmade has any knives that come even close to that kind of arrangement. However...

Looking at the liners on the Enlan 02, I'd be very surprised if you could force the lockbar through the liners, assuming I've got a picture of the right knife (below). Those are very substantial liners.

Exactly my point.

If the cutouts are so close together as the EL02 example, between the axis & stop pin, won't it reduce the amount of force requires to shear through the liners? On most of other axis lock available, usually the stop pin is placed more forward, near the edge of the handle/frame. This result in more material present between the cutouts.

The only reason the stop pin usually being put 'behind' or backward against pivot is usually reserved for liner/frame lock, where it forms a 'triangle' of stop pin, pivot, & lockbar. For axis design,this is not needed, as the dynamics are different.

 

[Peter Parker]

Still my favorite lock mechanism!

 

[stabman]

If you say so, it must be true.


Probably (or should I be more declarative?) depends on which frame-lock we're talking about...aint like they are all equal.
Since I don't particularly like them, I don't have a great many. Pretty sure CRK thnks theirs is pretty strong. Same for Hinderer and/or the ZTs.

Well, it ain't me who says so...the facts from people doing the testing (sometimes with fancy machines) is who says so.

As for CRK, they'd say their lock is strong enough.
Not strongest, or stronger, just strong enough.
And they'd be right.

I DO own a bunch of frame-locks; an Umnumzaan, 2 SmF's, an SnG, an Emerson CQC-12, a CK&T Bengal, a ZT 0551, and a Benchmade MPR. I've owned another CQC-12, a Benchmade Skirmish, and a Spyderco Titanium Military, and a frame-locked Buck/Strider 882SBTG.
Many of them have been used a fair bit, so I've gotten to see some of the pros and cons from use (not abuse though...I'll leave that to the knife destroyers).

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Ford/Chevy, Harley/Honda, Fuel Injection/Carburetor ; this is a debate that will remain just that.:jerkit:

I carry a CPM-M4 bladed WilkinsGrip Ritter with the Axis lock and an M390 bladed AFCK liner lock, daily. I'm a 18 year veteran career firefighter and a week never passes that I'm not involved in some type of construction project. I use my knives pretty hard. I routinely maintain my knives and I've broken/wore out a few "good quality" knives.

The Axis lock is ambidextrous and enables you to open and close the blade easily without touching it. You can pull back on the Axis bar and flip the blade open and closed and impress all of you friends with your pseudo bali-song, so long as it's relatively clean and the blade tension is adjusted. The lock works well and is neat. Does it have weaknesses? Well, again all things are subjective. Yes, the omega springs can break and it has to be taken apart and cleaned properly when it gets funked up with pocket lint and dust. The axis bar is harder to disengage when wearing gloves.

I've been doing a chimney demolition and after one day of being in my pocket with all of the masonry dust in the air, the Axis lock is full of grit and is definitely limping! the knife was carried tip up with the lock mechanism buried in my pocket yet it's full of abrasive dust and the only lube on it was a minute smidgen of grease on the washers when it was taken apart. The knife had just been completely disassembled and thoroughly cleaned the day before! Guess what, it already needs it again. Not a huge problem for a guy who can sit at his workbench and take it apart again at the end of the day, but it is a PITA!

You can't just hose out an Axis lock with hot water and WD-40 and get it back to normal. Now, how did the liner lock AFCK fare, which was tip down with the "action" directly exposed to all of the airborne dust? Well I rinsed both knives out the best i could with some hot water and dried them and the liner lock doesn't even remember being dirty. The KISS theory applies here and it works. That's why the guys wearing camo in the desert carry Striders and Hinderers. Less parts = more dependable!

It's all in what you need, want and like. I suspect that most of the reported failures of frame/liner locks are from tests designed to prove a point, not illustrate real world conditions. When a knife is being used, the pressure is being applied to the stop pin not the lock. Guess what? If you chuck up a frame lock in a vise and whack the spine with a sledge hammer, it's going to fail.

In the real world, if I had to choose, I'd opt for the mechanical simplicity and utter reliability of a well executed frame/ liner lock. I use my knives fairly hard but I don't stab trees or phone books or hang Volkswagens from them to see if I CAN break them.

Back to the OP's question; yes the axis lock is good, but it all depends on what kind of environment you'll expose it to and your ability to maintain it properly.

As I have mentioned I carry an AXIS lock every single day and it is my preferred lock type. Every knife I buy would have it if it were an option. I also do quite a bit of manual labor from construction, to gardening, to welding and machine work. Lot of dirt and metal particles around and eventually in my pockets and knives. I have never had to disassemble a knife to clean it. Hot water, soap, opening and closing the knife, an occasional Q-tip, and then compressed air have been able to clean even the grittiest knife to like new smoothness. I can easily take apart the knives and do so occasionally, but not for cleaning as I haven't needed to.

I have also had a few liner and frame locks fail on me during normal use of the knife. I don't buy them anymore for the most part because of these personal experiences. It takes a very special liner lock for me to consider it's purchase and the Spyderco Gayle Bradley is the only one I have bought in the last 3 or 4 years. I have bought a few frame locks just because there are some designs I like and I looked past the lock. Still, I rarely carry them. For me it is AXIS, ball bearing, compression, HAWK, and the occasional back lock. They work, are strong, and have been reliable for me, unlike a high percentage of the liner/frame locks I have owned that were considered quality knives. If I were going to the sandbox I personally would use one of the above mentioned lock types. I'm not concerned with simplicity as I can fix most locks besides a liner/frame lock which requires a new lock bar if it wears out. If I needed simplicity then I would go for a compression lock.

An AXIS lock is strong (one of the very strongest available), ambidextrous, keeps your fingers out of the blade path, fast to open and close, smooth, easy to use, and doesn't put horizontal pressure on the blade pushing it off center. I have also not heard of them wearing out or catastrophic failures. I have never read of one accidentally closing on someone's hand. If a spring breaks a new one can be easily made in about 5 minutes as I have done it. I don't think there is anything more I could ask for in a knife lock. It is the perfect lock for me.

 

[m_calingo]

I've been very happy with the Axis locks on my Ares and 940. No problem whatsoever, not broken omega springs.

I just happen to be in a ZT phase at the moment, so I haven't bought any Benchmades lately, but I still have three different limited edition Ares models. They're not going anywhere. Had a fourth one, but that one was gifted to a buddy.

What I like best about the Axis lock is it allows one do draw a tip up blade from the pocket, open the blade, use the blade, and close/replace the blade into the pocket in quick order. :thumbup:

 

[Boozoo Chavis]

Good design, but sooner or later the axis springs will break. Usually later, unless you're OCD like me and you flick the blade constantly while sitting at your computer. I managed to break both springs in about 6 mos.

 

[sasquatch1]

i have the benchmade ambush with the axis lock, the lock is very good in my opinion.