Axis lock opinion?

[JNewell]

I am not used to posting that I agree with Vassili and that I think he's making logical points (sorry), but for the second time in a page or so I think Vassili has made another good point. I have been an Axis fan since almost literally Day 1 in 1999, but even allowing for the effect of the Benchmade patent, even Benchmade continued to use other locks and still does so.

I do not think it is really far more reliable as well as everything else marketing was saying to gain most until it gets well known. It was new as Walker lock was new at some point of time or as Back Lock was new while ago, but it did not really bring anything revolutionary - all other lock are still in use because there is no overwhelming advantages - just another lock.

As well as clones - that was more about getting some piece of hype generated that time to enormous level.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Mal2]

I carried fixed blades and two handed slip joints and back locks for 50 years. The only one handed opener I carried (for 20 yrs) was a switchblade. It could, with some difficulty, be closed one handed but I suppose I never did it.

When I discovered one handed openers (and closers), I immediately bought liner, frame, and axis lock knives in various sizes looking for the ideal. I love them all and think all are perfectly reliable and strong enough but my new penchant for using them as worry beads has me at least considering wear. The axis lock has the others beat in this area because the normal flipping open and closed wears pivot, stop bar and lock only and the lock itself nicely compensates and shows the extent of that wear nicely by the position of the lock when locked open.

Interestingly, the love bites I get fiddling with the different locks are quite different. The assisted openers bite me on the little finger on closing. The axis locks (small ones only) get me on the meaty part of the thumb in the palm on closing and the liner and frame locks have formed a nasty callous and occasionally bite me on the thumb.

The biggest disadvantage to me is that the axis lock is by far the easiest for an LEO to call a "Gravity Knife". The lock back with a thumb nick is likely the safest of the lockers in this regard but a two handed slip joint, I suppose, is the safest of all. Not to get too political but I suppose the sheeple will eventually have us follow most of Europe in a mass sacrifice of freedom in the name of public safety and the good tools will be gone.

 

[cziv]

I am not used to posting that I agree with Vassili and that I think he's making logical points (sorry), but for the second time in a page or so I think Vassili has made another good point. I have been an Axis fan since almost literally Day 1 in 1999, but even allowing for the effect of the Benchmade patent, even Benchmade continued to use other locks and still does so.

I don't often see things differently than you - but the Axis lock was revolutionary and received a Patent for being so. The clones weren't a marketing hype conspiracy as Vasilli likes to infer about so many things. They're licensed or flat out ripped off.

The Axis lock kicks major butt for it's smooth, ease of use and reliability. It's easy to swap out new Omega springs so if you have a "can't fail" axis lock EDC, call Benchmade and they'll hook you up with an extra set for a few bucks.

I forget who it was that broke like 2 or 3 Omega springs in a day or two (forgot already) on the last page, but I'm calling "pics or it never happened" on that post.

 

[JNewell]

I still regard the Axis as one of the great steps forward (in mechanical terms) in knifemaking, for sure! :thumbup:

I agree with you about broken spring reports...

 

[TxSxB]

I don't often see things differently than you - but the Axis lock was revolutionary and received a Patent for being so. The clones weren't a marketing hype conspiracy as Vasilli likes to infer about so many things. They're licensed or flat out ripped off.

The Axis lock kicks major butt for it's smooth, ease of use and reliability. It's easy to swap out new Omega springs so if you have a "can't fail" axis lock EDC, call Benchmade and they'll hook you up with an extra set for a few bucks.

I forget who it was that broke like 2 or 3 Omega springs in a day or two (forgot already) on the last page, but I'm calling "pics or it never happened" on that post.

Here you go, the Mini Bone Collector already went back to BM to get the one spring fixed. Heres my Mini Grip with 2 broken springs. FWIW I still love the Axis lock, and what happened to my knives seems more like a fluke to me than anything else.

[video=dailymotion;xia6sd]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xia6sd_img-0290[/video]
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xia6sd_img-0290

 

[Mal2]

........... the Axis lock was revolutionary and received a Patent for being so. The clones weren't a marketing hype conspiracy as Vasilli likes to infer about so many things. They're licensed or flat out ripped off.

I would have to agree. I doubt SRM has any sort of license or agreement for the use of the design. Without getting into the typical moral/legal squabble; I didn't feel good buying it (SRM 763). Realizing it's not my responsibility to enforce patent laws doesn't ease my conscience in the least. Having said that, it is quite likely BM made a sale due to the SRM knife. I'm so tight that I never would pay the price without using the new (to me) design.

I too look forward to seeing the broken springs. With enough coils and proper steel, even a very light spring is quite robust.

 

[TxSxB]

I'm sure Benchmade has sold plenty of knives due to people using the SRM knock-off and wanting something of better quality, I would also imagine that the Omega Springs Benchmade uses are of higher quality than the counterfeit counterparts. I don't think that Omega Spring failures are nearly as common as they might appear to be, and even if BOTH springs break (like in my Mini Grip) the knife is still completely functional (i.e. it opens, cuts, and closes, and even locks if you wedge the Axis Bar into the tang with something) factor that into the user-friendly, silky smooth strength of the Axis Lock and you have a winner in my book every time. Broken springs or not.

 

[Ultimate]

Do you really count an AXIS spring failure as a failure of the lock itself? Both springs would have to fail simultaneously to alter the normal operation, and even then the lock itself would still function if the user could intervene and find something to secure it in a forward position.

Yes. If any part of the lock breaks which in turn renders the function of the lock itself useless, regardless of whether the actual bar broke, then the lock has failed. If I have to intervene and find something to keep the lock open then the lock has failed.

Also, I have NEVER had a problem with lint, dirt, blood, sand, or anything getting stuck in the cutout for the lock in a lockback knife like some others have mentioned. I have, however, had lint bind up inside the axis lock making it stiff and gritty to unlock. I don't even want to think about what would happen if it was dropped in a pile of sand or dirt. It would interesting to see a video of someone doing that with a lockback, liner lock, and axis lock and comparing them. I would but I don't currently have an axis lock knife to try it with.

If you have to pick one pen to carry for the rest of your life are you going to pick a capped pen or a clicky pen? I'm picking the capped pen for the same reason I'd pick a lockback, linerlock, or framelock over an axis lock.

Just my opinion, everyone is entitled to their own.

 

[cziv]

Here you go, the Mini Bone Collector already went back to BM to get the one spring fixed. Heres my Mini Grip with 2 broken springs. FWIW I still love the Axis lock, and what happened to my knives seems more like a fluke to me than anything else.

[video=dailymotion;xia6sd]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xia6sd_img-0290[/video]
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xia6sd_img-0290

That video looks like it's been "doctored up" by an agent of the keshaw, sog, Sanrenmu or Spyderco company - maybe to get back at BM for using their hole???

Nahh just kidding. What the heck are the odds of having 2 catastrophic axis lock failures in a week's time?

 

[TxSxB]

That video looks like it's been "doctored up" by an agent of the keshaw, sog, Sanrenmu or Spyderco company - maybe to get back at BM for using their hole???

Nahh just kidding. What the heck are the odds of having 2 catastrophic axis lock failures in a week's time?

My paypal address is available on request for the above named entities, I also accept payment in personal checks or knives but in all seriousness I would have to imagine the odds of something like this happening are extremely low. Makes me almost wonder if an alien space craft parked on my roof and the radiation from the unobtainium fuel core degenerated the omega springs structural integrity or something. Either way I wasn't put off by it, it was just a crazy fluke as far as I'm concerned. My mini grip needed to be sent in for a scale replacement anyway, so it really doesn't bother me too much, it just gives the mini bone collector more pocket time :thumbup:

 

[Robert.B]

That video looks like it's been "doctored up" by an agent of the keshaw, sog, Sanrenmu or Spyderco company - maybe to get back at BM for using their hole???

Nahh just kidding. What the heck are the odds of having 2 catastrophic axis lock failures in a week's time?

LOL I was gonna say, the people that whine incessantly about SRM stealing off BM, well BM's hands are pretty darn filthy to begin with! I like BM and own some but they have some under handed practices going on. But if someone wants to read about that there are a few sites that go into it in great detail.

I buy off whoever, and I have been using my SRM axis-lock at work and dont really have any moral issues or quality issues other than its a ripe pain in the butt to take apart to mod and service.

 

[cziv]

LOL I was gonna say, the people that whine incessantly about SRM stealing off BM, well BM's hands are pretty darn filthy to begin with! I like BM and own some but they have some under handed practices going on. But if someone wants to read about that there are a few sites that go into it in great detail.

I buy off whoever, and I have been using my SRM axis-lock at work and dont really have any moral issues or quality issues other than its a ripe pain in the butt to take apart to mod and service.

What are you talking about "BM's hands are pretty darn filthy to begin with!" Where are these "sites that go into it in great detail?" Links plz?

 

[Mal2]

. But if someone wants to read about that there are a few sites that go into it in great detail.

Certainly two sides to every story. Patent law is a mess to say the least and I don't have the expertise to take a side but, suffice it to say, none of what was involved in that squabble had anything to do with the axis lock. "Hands filthy" and "underhanded" might be a bit overstated. The term "questionable" would be as far as I could go and even that might be a stretch.

 

[Robert.B]

You can find lists of cases benchmade has made against other companies and likewise back, also some of their trademarks and patents seem to be worded in such a way as to limit the entire knife industry (for instance push button autos with locks)...I probably should have worded it that BM have raised the same eyebrow that others on here have at SRM.

Dont get me wrong, I like benchmade and will continue to do so...hell I have a 210 activator around my neck right now so its not like I'm going to "take my money elsewhere" when I want more BM models.

 

[Mal2]

What are you talking about "BM's hands are pretty darn filthy to begin with!" Where are these "sites that go into it in great detail?" Links plz?

http://www.assistedknife.com/index.cfm/fa/subcategories.main/parentcat/29189/subcatid/69887 Roadside's side.

http://www.benchmade.com/news/pr.aspx?id=247 Benchmade's (and the judge) side.

This seems to represent the two positions. If Robert has more or something that further justifies his allegations; it would be interesting to hear them.

My take is that Roadside was arguably circumventing a few switchblade laws and, also arguably, infringing on a Benchmade patent (automatic, not axis lock) among other things. They chose to attack Benchmade's complaints over that and additionally on several other fronts including an unfortunate choice by BM to market a forward opening switchblade in a questionable way and BM's refusal to allow the "medical" use of marijuana by its employees.

This post is based on a 30 minute internet investigation of the subject and should be given the credence it deserves which, though maybe more than Robert's, is practically none.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Yes. If any part of the lock breaks which in turn renders the function of the lock itself useless, regardless of whether the actual bar broke, then the lock has failed. If I have to intervene and find something to keep the lock open then the lock has failed.

Also, I have NEVER had a problem with lint, dirt, blood, sand, or anything getting stuck in the cutout for the lock in a lockback knife like some others have mentioned. I have, however, had lint bind up inside the axis lock making it stiff and gritty to unlock. I don't even want to think about what would happen if it was dropped in a pile of sand or dirt. It would interesting to see a video of someone doing that with a lockback, liner lock, and axis lock and comparing them. I would but I don't currently have an axis lock knife to try it with.

If you have to pick one pen to carry for the rest of your life are you going to pick a capped pen or a clicky pen? I'm picking the capped pen for the same reason I'd pick a lockback, linerlock, or framelock over an axis lock.

Just my opinion, everyone is entitled to their own.

I will let the videos speak for themselves

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[youtube]9c9eufyyXEI[/youtube]

[youtube]vzuViuCz7g4[/youtube]

[youtube]a8_E2-x-LoI[/youtube]

 

[Mal2]

I will let the videos speak for themselves

They speak pretty well though in a language I'm not fluent in. The dog's opinion is that the Grip don't dig too good and should watch his skillful demonstration. I suspect the axis lock's weak point is indeed the omega springs. In fact, I also suspect that, with a little sand, the axis lock would work fine without the springs as long as it was manually placed firmly in the lock position. The concept is a good one and would lend itself well to an automatic but I question its use in an assisted opener. That would seem to override one of it's advantages, easy one hand closing.

 

[Ultimate]

@FlaMtnBkr: Did you hear how gritty it was in every case that he dumped it in sand and mud? All it takes is one bit of sand or anything to completely bind up the lock. Plus, you get a small rock or twig or whatever in there putting the wrong pressure on the springs and you can say bye-bye.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

It's sand. It is going to make any moving parts gritty. He was packing it with sand and it didn't bind up. The lock still works perfectly fine and a dunk in water is all that was required to clean it out. I've carried AXIS locks almost exclusively for quite a while now and a rock or twig is just not an issue and if it did get in there it's not going to magically snap a metal spring. And if something did somehow bind it up I personally would find out what was goofing up my knife and remove it.

 

[Ultimate]

It's sand. It is going to make any moving parts gritty. He was packing it with sand and it didn't bind up. The lock still works perfectly fine and a dunk in water is all that was required to clean it out. I've carried AXIS locks almost exclusively for quite a while now and a rock or twig is just not an issue and if it did get in there it's not going to magically snap a metal spring. And if something did somehow bind it up I personally would find out what was goofing up my knife and remove it.

Likewise, a dunk in the water will clean a lockback. You're telling me if the same exact knife was made with an axis lock and lockback design (ie. that is the only difference) and you had to choose a knife based on reliability, you would still choose the axis lock? I just don't get it...

Why do you think most long distance bicycle campers/tourers use friction shifters? Because brifters or indexed shifters have a lot more that can go wrong and it's much easier to fix a broken bar-end friction shifter than a brifter/lever shifter.

Why do you think that revolvers are recommended for new gun owners or for home protection so often? Revolvers have a lot less that can go wrong (no magazine/feeding issues whatsoever, simpler design)