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GregB said:
AMEN!
$1.50..........
:jerkit: :jerkit: :jerkit: :jerkit:
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Bad deal warning: Matthew Honnert
- Thread starter robertmegar
- Start date
AMEN!
$1.50..........
:jerkit: :jerkit: :jerkit: :jerkit:Pahtoocara said:
Absolutely!. If the knife wasn't a great deal, do you think the buyer would have kept it for a lousy $1.50 in postage??
If someone has a slightly used Kershaw Mini Task, with original box and only a few tiny chips in the edge, for $65 delivered (via Fed Ex), please sell it to me!! I have Paypal ready (and you must accept the fees as well). It must be the original version, too, with the ATS-34 blade---none of that cheap 440A steel.
Matthew
exmaxima said:
Some aspects of price and condition can be separated as issues. I may think a low price reflects the used condition of a knife, but the buyer may think they are getting a good deal. Or vice versa, I offer a knife overpriced for its condition, and the buyer expects the condition of the knife to be at a higher level than it is. It appears the description does not match the condition of the knife regardless of the price. If I inaccurately describe the condition a knife I sell, it isn't reasonable that the buyer be at a loss [postage in this case. You both lost plenty of your time.]. The seller is obliged with respect to details of the knife that they know and should know. If I trade a knife that later snaps, that is normally not something I could have known about. Several knicks in the blade including one 1/4 the depth of the edge is something I should know.
Many years ago we sold a used car that later overheated and we were sued. We weren't negligent in the care of the car; that the engine would have overheated in a short time was not something we could have known. The plaintiff's case was dismissed. Suppose though that pools of green stuff have been leaking from the bottom of the car and I didn't know it was radiator coolant, then that would have been a different result.
exmaxima said:
You keep digging up this dead dog. *Hint* - your eBay feedback means nothing here.
exmaxima said:
My bad for reversing a portion of my post. Meant blade and not spine.
exmaxima said:
Christ, what I consider "stout" just may not fit your parameters. Just like "mint."
"For opening letters and such." LMAO
You have that typical eBay seller mentality ! Wonder why eBay sellers get such a bad rap !
exmaxima said:
Excellent ! Post your eBay handle so that I don't stumble on one of your eBay auctions and experience the displeasure of dealing with you !
Not a knock on anyone here, just a little story for fun. I won a Camaro on ebay that was listed as "Mint, and in better than new condition as from factory". Pictures looked good, blah blah blah...so I placed a bid and won the stinking thing. Luckily it was in my same town. I went to pay and pick it up and there was RUST ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE ROCKER PANELS, which wasn't shown in pics. I told the seller no way was I paying for the car, and he accused me of being a "nitpicker" and asked what I expected from a 35 year old car? I told him I expected a car that was "Mint, and in better than new condition".
Anyway...whatever...sorry to hijack...
Anyway...whatever...sorry to hijack...
Put a ding in a "mint" condition coin, and try to pass it off to a collector as "mint." You might wind up with a ding in your noggin.
Maybe there's a difference between mint and minty?
I used the word "mint" in a recent description: "Noticed a bit of sheath rub on this one, so I'm selling it as a "user." Has a bit of blade coating off the top tip as well as some rub around the talon hole on each side. Otherwise looks mint. Never used & never sharpened."
Maybe your post should have read: "Knife has some dings in the tip. Otherwise looks mint."
Maybe there's a difference between mint and minty?
I used the word "mint" in a recent description: "Noticed a bit of sheath rub on this one, so I'm selling it as a "user." Has a bit of blade coating off the top tip as well as some rub around the talon hole on each side. Otherwise looks mint. Never used & never sharpened."
Maybe your post should have read: "Knife has some dings in the tip. Otherwise looks mint."
About that "otherwise looks mint" knife. I actually had a deal with a guy worked out. But I had only noticed and represented the blade coating gone off the tip. AS I WAS PACKING IT, I noticed the additional coating rubs. I immediately contacted the buyer with a close-up pic. It broke the deal, but I felt better about not misleading him about exactly what he was getting.
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Selling a damaged knife as "mint" is lying, pure and simple.
It's always been my position that if theres any damage to the knife whatsoever it is the sellers responsibility to point out the damage, even if it came that way from the factory and the knife has never been used. Anything less is lying and deception.
It's always been my position that if theres any damage to the knife whatsoever it is the sellers responsibility to point out the damage, even if it came that way from the factory and the knife has never been used. Anything less is lying and deception.
Planterz said:
If I had known the knife had nicks I would have noted it. Or more likely, simply sharpened the knife. My eyes are not 20 power magnification, and I didn't even notice them.
But what do you think of a buyer who demands a substantial discount? I kept offering a full refund, and he kept demanding a big discount. Would a reputable store have offered a discount or would they refund the cost? I believe my actions were the most honorable, and the fact that the buyer didn't want to spend $1.50 to get his refund hints that he already knew he had a fair deal. It sure makes one wonder why he refuses to return the knife if he was so disappointed with it. In any case, a full refund is consistent with the best of deals, and the buyer declined.
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I don't have 20x magnification in my eyes either. My prescription is actually -9.0 in each eye....but even I could see chunks that big out of the edge of the knife.
What kind of tape was on those packages you opened with the knife? I want to use it the next time I mail something, just to punish anyone who might try to open it in transit, LOL.
What kind of tape was on those packages you opened with the knife? I want to use it the next time I mail something, just to punish anyone who might try to open it in transit, LOL.
TOMBSTONE said:
If this is true, and widely acknowledged, the buyer should have figured that out as well. After all, I told him I carried it a few times, and that I used it to open a few boxes. By your definition, the knife was not MINT and the buyer should not have expected a mint knife.
So maybe the problem is that the buyer was so excited about the great price, that he neglected to consider that (by definition) the knife could not possibly be mint as it was used a few times. He should have expected a used knife that may need sharpening.
It is amazing to find such a picky group of knife owners. I go to shows and see 1000's of knives, with dealers shaving hair and cutting paper, or hitting the blades in a vise (padded) to prove the ruggedness of their blades. Then they sell most of them as NEW. Not just mint, but NEW. Especially custom knives or Randalls. Does anybody really believe that those knives are never sharpened and then sold as mint? And if someone was offered a great knife at a show for 1/2 price due to a MICROSCOPIC nick, who would walk away and say "No, I can't do it. My knives are jewelry, and if the blade was ever resharpened, I just couldn't live with it"?
You know, this thread has made me re-think about my knife collection. It has enlightened me that none of this stuff has any value since I actually use many of the knives as tools. Apparently, it is all junk. My Sebenza, my Spydercos, my Bokers, my Benchmades, my Al Mars...---all worthless since many have cleaned my fingernails. No point in ever trying to sell them as modern knife collectors cannot fathom sharpening the working end of a knife. I guess I'll just toss them out as they get dull.
Many thanks to all who understand the futility of this thread. I apologize to everyone else I offended. I am too old to get bummed out over this nonsense...
Goodbye
Matthew Honnert
I have a hard time understanding what all the fuss is about. I have one of these knives and I think a Kershaw Mini Task is a good user whether it is new or like new or mint or excellent or very good condition. It's condition doesn't change the value much in my opinion from a usability perspective unless it's completely beat to crap.
Don't get me wrong though, the seller could learn a thing or two about what "mint" means and realize that another $1.50 wouldn't break him AND the buyer should have accepted the refund and maybe sucked it up on the $1.50 shipping cost or realized he got a bargain and spent 5 minutes on the Sharpmaker to make it Like New.
Don't get me wrong though, the seller could learn a thing or two about what "mint" means and realize that another $1.50 wouldn't break him AND the buyer should have accepted the refund and maybe sucked it up on the $1.50 shipping cost or realized he got a bargain and spent 5 minutes on the Sharpmaker to make it Like New.
Slatts said:
I think you're right Slatts. If the buyer really was disappointed with the knife ,he'd have spent the $1.50. The fact that he didn't (whether he should have or not) tells me he realized the deal he got.
This seller is definitely a lot more articulate and believeble than most that I have seen try to defend themselves. I am as anal as they come regarding knives (and most other things I guess) so the slightest defect that has not been originally noted sets me off, so I admit I'm a bit biased against non-mint stuff (if it's advertised as mint). I have only a few knives set aside as "users", mostly Rats and Busse. Honestly, I'd like to see the knife in it's natural state, unmagnified to make a true determination, although it's not my call to make.
I do have a definite idea of what "mint" or "minty" is, but some people have different definitions (even though they may be flawed
). The seller did, however, respond to this thread, when if he hadn't all would have quiely faded away as the thread had more or less gone dormant for almost two months, and nothing more would have been said of this. I don't know - I jumped the gun and made a quick judgement, and still have some opinions on mint, full disclosure etc...but I think I'll call it a draw on this one. Only once have I sold something to someone where that person had an issue (my honest mistake) and I went over and above to make sure my reputation remained clean. I would have eaten the extra buck fitty to keep that rep clean.
Mini Task, used, likely to be continued as a user, could be quickly sharpened to quite useful. I know there's principles involved, etc etc but again my impression is that the seller was at worst uninformed about the def of mint, and at best truly oblivious to the fact there were chips that show up more pronounced under magnification. Chips bug me, but I'd just pay the $1.50 to get my money if that's what it took.
Very rare of me, but I am going to withhold judgement on this one, and apologize for any offense.
Rambling, but 3 glasses of Cap'n Morgans will do that to me...
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Well, well, well... were can I start Matthew?
You are talking about $1.50 shipping... is that the going price for shipping knives? Not even close. I would never ship a knife through regular mail with no tracking nor insurance. So $1.50 shipping is not.
You are trying to hide the fact that the knife was advertised as mint or minty by arguing that you sold it at a great price. One thing has nothing to do with the other. If you state a knife is mint, it should be mint, and selling price should not degrade this statement. Let me also clear to all that YOU, Matthew H., established the price, I made no offers (lowballing) other than his full asking price.
So, again, that was my experience with this guy, hope it helps.
You are talking about $1.50 shipping... is that the going price for shipping knives? Not even close. I would never ship a knife through regular mail with no tracking nor insurance. So $1.50 shipping is not.
You are trying to hide the fact that the knife was advertised as mint or minty by arguing that you sold it at a great price. One thing has nothing to do with the other. If you state a knife is mint, it should be mint, and selling price should not degrade this statement. Let me also clear to all that YOU, Matthew H., established the price, I made no offers (lowballing) other than his full asking price.
So, again, that was my experience with this guy, hope it helps.
So the bottom line for a bunch of you guys is that it's about $1.50, not that the condition was incorrectly stated, or that the knife was damaged by use, or that the seller was full of crap?
So what dollar amount is acceptable to bitch over? $10? $100? $1000?
I'll be honest, for the buck and a half and an inexpensive factory knife, I personally would not have quibbled much. However, it's not me. It's Robert, his knife and his money, as well as his failed expectations.
It's exmaxima, whose asinine behavior and constant referrals to his Ebay sales, sans any reference to his handle, and his failure to realize this is NOT ebay, it's a different community with a different ethos and a different set of rules. He sold a knife to someone with an incorrectly described condition, and pretty frankly Matthew, you don't NEED to see it -if you claim you know knives, run the bloody edge down your thumbnail and you could not miss feeling them. exmaxima has a whole 14 posts, at least half of them it seems defending his actions here. Stupid, really, when all he needed to do was make the other guy happy. Pretty poor standards for a self-vaunted ebay seller.
Right at the top of these pages are the rules of conduct. Nothing's done til both sides are happy.
A while back when i was a member of a different forum I sold a Busse Basic to a guy who bitched about the condition. I maintained it was in nearly perfect condition and a mod got involved, privately, and I agreed to take the knife back. The bastard had used it for i do not know what, but the black ceramic coating had gouges missing from it. It did not go out that way. I gave it to a friend who loved it.
I was not happy, nor was I guess the other guy - he really believed that crap about a knife being a chisel or a prybar with a convex edge - anyway, the deal got undone and we got over it and did not deal again.
I've done several trades with Sentinel - I'm going to pick on him just cuz I like him and I see his name here - Sentinel and I have shipped thousands of dollars of knives back and forth between us. It was a pain in the ass. About 9 time zones, a World Cup which he was attending and two radically different schedules between us, and we still got it done, and were both happy. I also have NO doubt we were both ready to eat double international shipping if the deal made either side unhappy.
See, that's how this works. I've been buying, selling, trading for years here. Not that this makes me any better than anyone in this thread or at the entirety of BFC, including exmaxima who has acted like a complete ass here in my little world view, but I've got a longer view than lots of folks here. I don't like getting preachy, since it looks retarded over the net, but the hell with it - too many guys with too much time to post and too little time to see the community it seems -
Guys, rulz of the road here - Robert was unhappy and Mr ebay was done with it and moving on. That's not how it works, and it's like a flag-burning court case - I don't have to like it or support it morally - the fact is that with every individual case the same rules apply, big deal or small change. It's the basic rules of ethical and decent business and personal conduct, incoroporated here as simple rules to live by, which allow me to send Sentinel, whom I have never met and quite frankly it's likely I might never, a box with several knives in it in confidence I will get my box and it's not going to be full of scrap metal!
So I hope Robert derives some sort of satisfaction from this whole abortive mess, as he seems like a pretty good guy, but guys, take away the big picture, not the quibble over a buck and a half. If we cannot trust each other on small change, why trust on the big stuff. After all, ethics can be defined as being good when no one is watching, and making sure you hold up your end of the details.
Enough, I've said my piece.
So what dollar amount is acceptable to bitch over? $10? $100? $1000?
I'll be honest, for the buck and a half and an inexpensive factory knife, I personally would not have quibbled much. However, it's not me. It's Robert, his knife and his money, as well as his failed expectations.
It's exmaxima, whose asinine behavior and constant referrals to his Ebay sales, sans any reference to his handle, and his failure to realize this is NOT ebay, it's a different community with a different ethos and a different set of rules. He sold a knife to someone with an incorrectly described condition, and pretty frankly Matthew, you don't NEED to see it -if you claim you know knives, run the bloody edge down your thumbnail and you could not miss feeling them. exmaxima has a whole 14 posts, at least half of them it seems defending his actions here. Stupid, really, when all he needed to do was make the other guy happy. Pretty poor standards for a self-vaunted ebay seller.
Right at the top of these pages are the rules of conduct. Nothing's done til both sides are happy.
A while back when i was a member of a different forum I sold a Busse Basic to a guy who bitched about the condition. I maintained it was in nearly perfect condition and a mod got involved, privately, and I agreed to take the knife back. The bastard had used it for i do not know what, but the black ceramic coating had gouges missing from it. It did not go out that way. I gave it to a friend who loved it.
I was not happy, nor was I guess the other guy - he really believed that crap about a knife being a chisel or a prybar with a convex edge - anyway, the deal got undone and we got over it and did not deal again.
I've done several trades with Sentinel - I'm going to pick on him just cuz I like him and I see his name here - Sentinel and I have shipped thousands of dollars of knives back and forth between us. It was a pain in the ass. About 9 time zones, a World Cup which he was attending and two radically different schedules between us, and we still got it done, and were both happy. I also have NO doubt we were both ready to eat double international shipping if the deal made either side unhappy.
See, that's how this works. I've been buying, selling, trading for years here. Not that this makes me any better than anyone in this thread or at the entirety of BFC, including exmaxima who has acted like a complete ass here in my little world view, but I've got a longer view than lots of folks here. I don't like getting preachy, since it looks retarded over the net, but the hell with it - too many guys with too much time to post and too little time to see the community it seems -
Guys, rulz of the road here - Robert was unhappy and Mr ebay was done with it and moving on. That's not how it works, and it's like a flag-burning court case - I don't have to like it or support it morally - the fact is that with every individual case the same rules apply, big deal or small change. It's the basic rules of ethical and decent business and personal conduct, incoroporated here as simple rules to live by, which allow me to send Sentinel, whom I have never met and quite frankly it's likely I might never, a box with several knives in it in confidence I will get my box and it's not going to be full of scrap metal!
So I hope Robert derives some sort of satisfaction from this whole abortive mess, as he seems like a pretty good guy, but guys, take away the big picture, not the quibble over a buck and a half. If we cannot trust each other on small change, why trust on the big stuff. After all, ethics can be defined as being good when no one is watching, and making sure you hold up your end of the details.
Enough, I've said my piece.
exmaxima said:
FWIW if ya carried the knife, or sharpened it, or cut anything with it its not new, nor LNIB, nor minty imho. and yes once ya use them(or sharpen them) unless its a super duper rare version of something or another its not worth the $$ that one that is in LNIB shape is especially to a serious collector, i collect new stuff not users FWIW. so yes if ya use your knives ya wont get the dollar for them that a LNIB one will bring, or if ya sharpen them, and generally ya can tell if its been sharpened or used. i have some user knives (ie strider SMF, emerson specwar CQC8, spyderco Ti ATR, crawford perigo)which i carry and use and then i have my collector stuff (ie BM prototypes, MT OTF autos, darrel ralph maxx's, numerous spyderco, etc) which i most certainly do not carry or use for anything, even opening envelopes.
that said if ya advertised the thing as "minty but i cut boxes with it "i would presume the handles, clip, etc are in like new shape and the blade possibly had some minor scuffing and the edge could have minor chipping (if ya cut open a box its not uncommon to cut into a staple/etc) so i would take that into account when considering purchasing the thing.
i would sharpen the thing and go on if it was me, and i wanted a knife like that to use not for collecting, and the price was right. if not ante up the postage and send it back.