Bad deal warning: Matthew Honnert

exmaxima said:
If this is true, and widely acknowledged, the buyer should have figured that out as well. After all, I told him I carried it a few times, and that I used it to open a few boxes. By your definition, the knife was not MINT and the buyer should not have expected a mint knife.

So maybe the problem is that the buyer was so excited about the great price, that he neglected to consider that (by definition) the knife could not possibly be mint as it was used a few times. He should have expected a used knife that may need sharpening.

It is amazing to find such a picky group of knife owners. I go to shows and see 1000's of knives, with dealers shaving hair and cutting paper, or hitting the blades in a vise (padded) to prove the ruggedness of their blades. Then they sell most of them as NEW. Not just mint, but NEW. Especially custom knives or Randalls. Does anybody really believe that those knives are never sharpened and then sold as mint? And if someone was offered a great knife at a show for 1/2 price due to a MICROSCOPIC nick, who would walk away and say "No, I can't do it. My knives are jewelry, and if the blade was ever resharpened, I just couldn't live with it"?

You know, this thread has made me re-think about my knife collection. It has enlightened me that none of this stuff has any value since I actually use many of the knives as tools. Apparently, it is all junk. My Sebenza, my Spydercos, my Bokers, my Benchmades, my Al Mars...---all worthless since many have cleaned my fingernails. No point in ever trying to sell them as modern knife collectors cannot fathom sharpening the working end of a knife. I guess I'll just toss them out as they get dull.

Many thanks to all who understand the futility of this thread. I apologize to everyone else I offended. I am too old to get bummed out over this nonsense...

Goodbye

Matthew Honnert


Okay,so you opened a few boxes and carried it a few times.I've seen knives do this,and look like new from the factory.How many boxes? A few,meaning a few hundred? :D So, he expects maybe it may need a touch of sharpening.I've owned and used many knives over the years,and I can't say I've ever had chips in my blade.I certainly wouldn't expect it from just a few boxes.Either your hitting staples,or that blade has heat treat problems.In anycase it should have been mentioned in the description.
If you look at a recent knife I had for sale,it is new/unused,but I still mention a mark on the blade that was from the maker.It pays to describe accurately,no matter how cheap a person is buying it for.It is less aggravation for both parties in the long run.

As far as being "a picky group of knife owners", you do realize your participating on a website dedicated to knife-nuts? Are you really that amazed?

In regards to your knife show observation,just because someone else does something,does not mean it is acceptable.

Your knife collection comment is a bit extreme.No one ever said a used knife is worthless.When you sell a used knife it should be described as detailed as possible.(see example)
"I carried the knife a few times, it has a few minor scuffs, minor coating wear on the pocket clip,may need a touch-up on a sharpening stone to sharpen out a couple minor nicks." Not to difficult you see? No disappointments for the buyer or seller. ;)
 
exmaxima said:
So maybe the problem is that the buyer was so excited about the great price, that he neglected to consider that (by definition) the knife could not possibly be mint as it was used a few times.

Matthew Honnert

Yet you advertised it as "minty". There's the problem. Your mistake.
 
Deadhead Archer said:
Just to clear the air in the room:

As per Dictionary.com

Mint.

Adj. Undamaged as if freshly minted: The painting was in mint condition.

As per Thesaurus.com

Main Entry: mint
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: brand-new
Synonyms: excellent, first-class, fresh, intact, original, perfect, spanking-new*, spick-and-span*, unblemished, undamaged, unmarred, untarnished

Is this the same mint we are all talking about? Or the "other" mint? :rolleyes:

If something is described as mint, then it should be mint according to the way mint is defined in the sources that Deadhead Archer quoted here. Plain and simple. A lower price is completely another story. It should not be mingled with an inaccurate description. To me it is that simple!;)
 
Parker said:
So the bottom line for a bunch of you guys is that it's about $1.50, not that the condition was incorrectly stated, or that the knife was damaged by use, or that the seller was full of crap?

So what dollar amount is acceptable to bitch over? $10? $100? $1000?

I'll be honest, for the buck and a half and an inexpensive factory knife, I personally would not have quibbled much. However, it's not me. It's Robert, his knife and his money, as well as his failed expectations.

It's exmaxima, whose asinine behavior and constant referrals to his Ebay sales, sans any reference to his handle, and his failure to realize this is NOT ebay, it's a different community with a different ethos and a different set of rules. He sold a knife to someone with an incorrectly described condition, and pretty frankly Matthew, you don't NEED to see it -if you claim you know knives, run the bloody edge down your thumbnail and you could not miss feeling them. exmaxima has a whole 14 posts, at least half of them it seems defending his actions here. Stupid, really, when all he needed to do was make the other guy happy. Pretty poor standards for a self-vaunted ebay seller.

Right at the top of these pages are the rules of conduct. Nothing's done til both sides are happy.

A while back when i was a member of a different forum I sold a Busse Basic to a guy who bitched about the condition. I maintained it was in nearly perfect condition and a mod got involved, privately, and I agreed to take the knife back. The bastard had used it for i do not know what, but the black ceramic coating had gouges missing from it. It did not go out that way. I gave it to a friend who loved it.

I was not happy, nor was I guess the other guy - he really believed that crap about a knife being a chisel or a prybar with a convex edge - anyway, the deal got undone and we got over it and did not deal again.

I've done several trades with Sentinel - I'm going to pick on him just cuz I like him and I see his name here - Sentinel and I have shipped thousands of dollars of knives back and forth between us. It was a pain in the ass. About 9 time zones, a World Cup which he was attending and two radically different schedules between us, and we still got it done, and were both happy. I also have NO doubt we were both ready to eat double international shipping if the deal made either side unhappy.

See, that's how this works. I've been buying, selling, trading for years here. Not that this makes me any better than anyone in this thread or at the entirety of BFC, including exmaxima who has acted like a complete ass here in my little world view, but I've got a longer view than lots of folks here. I don't like getting preachy, since it looks retarded over the net, but the hell with it - too many guys with too much time to post and too little time to see the community it seems -

Guys, rulz of the road here - Robert was unhappy and Mr ebay was done with it and moving on. That's not how it works, and it's like a flag-burning court case - I don't have to like it or support it morally - the fact is that with every individual case the same rules apply, big deal or small change. It's the basic rules of ethical and decent business and personal conduct, incoroporated here as simple rules to live by, which allow me to send Sentinel, whom I have never met and quite frankly it's likely I might never, a box with several knives in it in confidence I will get my box and it's not going to be full of scrap metal!

So I hope Robert derives some sort of satisfaction from this whole abortive mess, as he seems like a pretty good guy, but guys, take away the big picture, not the quibble over a buck and a half. If we cannot trust each other on small change, why trust on the big stuff. After all, ethics can be defined as being good when no one is watching, and making sure you hold up your end of the details.

Enough, I've said my piece.


Parker

I think that with your reference you have covered the whole case in a thorough way. Making mistakes goes hand in hand with human nature. It's how we go about dealing with those mistakes that makes the difference. Further to that, a mint item should be a mint item, period. If we start giving our definitions of what mint means then we should expect trouble. In all honesty, I don't think that peace of mind is worth $1.50.
 
So, here's the story in a nutshell....
Exmaxima offered up a knife that wasn't EXACTLY as described. robermegar jumped on it without even offering a lesser amount which would indicate the asking price was a great deal. Exmaxima sent the knife ASAP, Robert examined it under a microscope, found flaws and asked for a further discount. Exmaxima felt it would be cheaper to keep her, told him to send it back and he would send the money including the original shipping cost (something no company I've ever dealt with has offered) but not the shipping to send it back. Robert decided to keep the knife rather than spend $1.50 - $4.05. He then trashes exmaxima here. Two months later exmaxima learns he's been trashed and comes to defend himself. Unfortunately, rather than explain what happened and admit that his description may have been misleading (mint and user just don't mix) he tries to defend it.

Exmaxima did everything a person can do to try to make it right. Obviously Robert knew what a deal he was getting or he would have sent it back. Robert offered to refund the original shipping which no company I've ever dealt with does so kudos for him there. His mistake was in using a term that didn't match the condition. Everything else he did was straight up and I'd do a deal with him based on his actions.

Also, exmaxima did post his Ebay ID in his second post.

JC III
 
jsciii said:
So, here's the story in a nutshell....
Exmaxima offered up a knife that wasn't EXACTLY as described. robermegar jumped on it without even offering a lesser amount which would indicate the asking price was a great deal. Exmaxima sent the knife ASAP, Robert examined it under a microscope, found flaws and asked for a further discount. Exmaxima felt it would be cheaper to keep her, told him to send it back and he would send the money including the original shipping cost (something no company I've ever dealt with has offered) but not the shipping to send it back. Robert decided to keep the knife rather than spend $1.50 - $4.05. He then trashes exmaxima here. Two months later exmaxima learns he's been trashed and comes to defend himself. Unfortunately, rather than explain what happened and admit that his description may have been misleading (mint and user just don't mix) he tries to defend it.

Exmaxima did everything a person can do to try to make it right. Obviously Robert knew what a deal he was getting or he would have sent it back. Robert offered to refund the original shipping which no company I've ever dealt with does so kudos for him there. His mistake was in using a term that didn't match the condition. Everything else he did was straight up and I'd do a deal with him based on his actions.

Also, exmaxima did post his Ebay ID in his second post.

JC III

Yeah, I gotta go with this one.
 
jsciii said:
So, here's the story in a nutshell....
Exmaxima offered up a knife that wasn't EXACTLY as described. robermegar jumped on it without even offering a lesser amount which would indicate the asking price was a great deal. Exmaxima sent the knife ASAP, Robert examined it under a microscope, found flaws and asked for a further discount. Exmaxima felt it would be cheaper to keep her, told him to send it back and he would send the money including the original shipping cost (something no company I've ever dealt with has offered) but not the shipping to send it back. Robert decided to keep the knife rather than spend $1.50 - $4.05. He then trashes exmaxima here. Two months later exmaxima learns he's been trashed and comes to defend himself. Unfortunately, rather than explain what happened and admit that his description may have been misleading (mint and user just don't mix) he tries to defend it.

Exmaxima did everything a person can do to try to make it right. Obviously Robert knew what a deal he was getting or he would have sent it back. Robert offered to refund the original shipping which no company I've ever dealt with does so kudos for him there. His mistake was in using a term that didn't match the condition. Everything else he did was straight up and I'd do a deal with him based on his actions.

Also, exmaxima did post his Ebay ID in his second post.

JC III


I would agree with the above post. Larry
 
jsciii said:
He then trashes exmaxima here.
Where is the "trashing"?!?!?!?
robertmegar said:
Short story: This guy contacts me regarding my interest in a mini Random Task. He says he has one in mint condition w/ box and offers it for sale at $ X amount shipped. I agree, send the funds right away and few days later get the knife...

Knife comes with a chipped blade (see picture) and I am not happy since knife was stated as "minty". I contact the seller for a partial refund and his reply was that I already saved lots of money for having the chipped blade and that the deal was fair.

He agreed for a refund but wants me to pay the shipping back. I don't feel like paying for the shipping when the item was misrepresented. SO BUYER BEWARE.

I feel some here are taking lightly the decription of the knife. This guy contacted me first and offered his knife for sale. After asking to review the knife condition a secong time (I specifically asked for nicks scuffs etc., have the email to prove it) he reiterated that it was mint. So I don't feel like his mistake at best (mirepresentation at worse) should cost me, not even a dollar.
 
in life ya have to pick your battles carefully and i aint gonna fight many battles myself for $2.

if i am understanding all this its about $2 for shipping, if i am unhappy with something and can get my $$ back minus the shipping, i would just do that and not worry anymore.
 
Interesting thread as I have experienced similar situations buying on EBAY. One thing I am surprised wasn't mentioned however: If the seller couldn't be trusted to describe the knife accurately from the beginning....getting a refund is putting further trust in the seller to send back the $$$$. Also, apparently the deal was made outside of EBAY which is against EBAY rules to begin with. I can understand the buyer requesting a further discount instead of returning the knife as it does not put the buyer at any further risk!

I found out the hard way and experienced being totally ripped off and "retailiatory" feedback TOO MANY times dealing with sellers that have the philosophy to embellish the description to get bids and if the buyer complains, provide a refund and stick the buyer for shipping costs. Many sellers inflate the shipping costs for profit so no matter what, they come out ahead. Unfortunately, EBAY is easy pickins for less than honest sellers.

Just my .02 FWIW,
Peter
 
The buyer expected a MINT (read flawless) knife based on the seller calling it used but "Minty".

He got a knife that had what he considered to be a serious flaw namely the chipped edge.

He contacts the seller and asks for a partial refund....the seller refuses but offers a full refund.

The buyer is out the shipping cost back to the seller.

The seller is out the original shipping cost.

Nobody wins in the senario but there are really no big losers either.

Not sure this matter warrents this much talk....


Or course here I am blah blah blah...:D


My 2 cents.....
 
I might be reluctant to send back the knife as well,considering the situation.He Could be out the knife and the $$$$$.People keep mentioning 1.50 and 2.00 for shipping.I can't say I've ever shipped a knife for that small amount.I guess if you throw it in a flimsy envelope,no insurance or tracking and send it my horse courier $1.50 may be possible.
 
A "Mint" knife IS NEW and totally UNUSED, period. A perfect and FLAWLESS knife IS minty.
 
I personally don't care how much the shipping is. If the knife was not as described, there should be absolutely no cost involved in sending it back. Shipping a knife with insurance, tracking and possibly delivery confirmation would not be $1.50 to $2.00.
 
Normal Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation is gonna be around $4.85-5.00, insurance would add a little more.

But I gotta agree with Keith, if the knife was not described acurately, the seller should eat the cost of reversing the deal.

If for no other reason than a learning lesson that inaccurate descriptions won't be tolerated long on here.
 
This is obviously a matter of opinions, certainly not an open and shut case, which is why it has gathered so many responses.

Personally, I beleive the seller in that he was not aware of the chips. They are small, very small, and easily sharpened out even by an amateur with poor skills and a Sharpmaker. That being said, his description of the knife being minty but used was accurate. As long as he stated that the knife was used but still in minty condition as he said, and he has honestly not noticed the tiny chips, then he is totally in the right here.

I also understand the point of view of the buyer. I would aslo be upset if I got my knife expecting it to be in "minty" , but instead arriving with a chipped edge. However, I would at the most mention it to the seller and ask him if he were aware of the chips. If he said no, then that would be enough for me. I preferre to trust people in the knife community, rather than jump the gun and make a thread like this over a small issue that hurts their name. Especially when they offered a full refund.
 
How could the description of "minty" be accurate? We are knife knuts here and we know exactly what's going on with our edges!!! We are always shaving hairs, just look at our arms for G-d's sake man!!!!:D :D

But in any event, when you purport a knife for sale to be mint you best have examined it with a fine tooth comb. A knife used to open an envelope or two, cut some twine, and/or open a priority mail shipping box oe two can be "minty" but the seller must be absolutely certain of the condition before rating it so high. Any scuff, mark, scratch, rub on the finish or edge chips changes the condition from mint to something lower than mint. Huh?:eek:

If I use a knife, regardless of what I used it for, I always rate the knife beginning at 90-95% and go downwards from there.:grumpy:

And in all my knfe dealings, if the buyer is not happy I refund him every penny he spent to get it. The extra five bucks is just not worth ruining my reputation both here in GB&U and in W&C where one could get annointed a PT very very quickly.......:eek: :p ;)
 
REALITY CHECK. Life, as we know it, will not come to a screeching halt because a used knife had minor chips on the edge. NICKS HAPPEN.

Some of us took longer typing our responses to this thread than it would have taken to sharpen the nicks out of the blade in question. Presumably, the buyer planned on using the blade anyway, so just sharpen it.

I have recieved quality NIB (aka "mint") knives from the makers desperately in need of sharpening straight out of the box. One of these knives cost easily 3-4 times more than this knife. I didn't cry about it, I whipped out the stones and went to work.

I'm sure the seller will be more careful with descriptions next time. I don't believe, by this one example, that he is unethical or that no one should ever deal with him again. I also think the buyer had the right to point out the nicks to the seller. BUT, I don't know about plastering the guys name up on GB&U and accusing him of being a liar.......

Too much baby momma drama for such a easily rectified non-problem.
 
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