Bad Survival Advice Makes Me Wonder...

C

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What can they be thinking? Folks with a lot of outdoors experience writing buying guides for Cabela's like Frank Ross. In talking about survival gear he writes:

Knife—A knife is probably the most valuable possession you'll ever carry. Without a knife you're going to be severely handicapped in just about everything you'll need to do from building a fire to cutting a splint or preparing something to eat.

So far so good. Now he follows it by what I think is a ridiculous tack-on:

An even better option would be a multi-tool that has a wide array of tools in addition to a knife blade.

Now I can see where a multi-tool would be recommended in addition to a knife, but the smallish blades in these multi-tools are far too small to rely on, in my opinion, except as a backup, or for lighter tasks such as stripping wires or cutting a little kindling, first aid, etc. In short, I think knives can be used in conjunction with multi-tools, but not instead of. There are some very nice multi-tools, granted, but I just can't see a multi-tool being one's primary knife, can you?

Another problem I had with Cabela's is that I couldn't locate their Buck 110 Alaskans with s30v blade. After a 20-minute search, I called a buyer's assistant and it took her almost ten minutes to find it. Seems the problem is that they forgot to mention it was a Buck and two, the search engine didn't find the term "s30v." But I finally found it! It will be my first Buck and my second s30v blade. I've been very happy with my Spyderco Native, but wish it came with a 4.25-inch blade.

Buck110S-20.jpg

Looks like a beaut, but I've got to get that logo off! Out, out,
damn spot!

.
 
my multitool is my primary knife (Until my bump finishes making its way from ohio to LA, it's presently in kansas)
 
But I finally found it! It will be my first Buck and my second s30v blade.
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Congrats!!!!
You're gonna love it! :thumbup:

So far so good. Now he follows it by what I think is a ridiculous tack-on:

An even better option would be a multi-tool that has a wide array of tools in addition to a knife blade.

Now I can see where a multi-tool would be recommended in addition to a knife, but the smallish blades in these multi-tools are far too small to rely on, in my opinion, except as a backup, or for lighter tasks such as stripping wires or cutting a little kindling, first aid, etc. In short, I think knives can be used in conjunction with multi-tools, but not instead of. There are some very nice multi-tools, granted, but I just can't see a multi-tool being one's primary knife, can you?
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Actually, I agree.

The hard cold truth is that for purely survival puposes, a large blade is seldom IF EVER necessary.
And a single-blade knife (folder or fixed-blade) is not nearly as useful or capable as a multi-tool with several blades.
 
I'll agree as well. I always keep a fixed blade and a multi-tool on my belt for outdoor activities like camping or fishing. If I had to pick one or the other though it would be the multi-tool hands down.
 
I agree also. I could see me getting by pretty well with a good multi tool. After many years of outdoor life, I have never really needed a big heavy knife. Give me a Hatchet and any knife and I will be in good shape.
 
the blades on many multi tools aren't bad at all. leathermen have pretty sizeable blades, and gerber's aren't bad either.
 
but i think all the weight behind the blade makes it alot easer to snap, in a multi tool. if you have to use it in any hard use way. imo
 
First of all it seems to me there is a lot of flip flopping on this forum. When I fist joined this forum back in March, all I heard about were fixed blades and how bear grylls was so stupid for only carrying a folder etc etc. Now I have seen several threads including this one in which people say a folder is there primary woods knife. Just wondering what the reason for that is.

I agree a multi tool is not the best. I carry my leatherman as a secondary and thought i would give is some use. I was working on getting fine shaving from some birch bark as tinder. To do this I scrape side to side with the blade. I could feel this stressing the blade at the joint. I switched over to my f1 and felt much more comfortable.
 
It doesn't even need to be a multi-tool with pliers. I think I could do well for myself in most situations with any SAK that included a saw. I do agree that I wouldn't carry one as my primary knife. I rather have a 3 or 4 inch fixed blade as my main cutter. But in most worst case scenarios where you might be left with only one knife it's hard to beat the versatility of a SAK. Plus most people carry a SAK deep in the pocket. . . Less convenient than something clipped onto the edge of the pocket or carried in a belt pouch or sheath, but also less likely to get lost in the kind of fall or dunk in the water where you might loose other gear.

Anyhow, I guess I agree that a multi-tool could be used as someone's main or only knife, but I personally wouldn't go that route. I carry a Vic Swiss Tool on mt belt and Hiker in my left front pocket most days, but for most of the cutting I do on a daily basis I reach for the Spyderco Delica clipped inside my right front pocket. When I head out to the woods, even for a fairly short walk I add a fixed blade, and for a longer hike or overnight backpacking trip there's a hatchet in my pack.

I found the article that Confederate quoted in case anyone else wants to read the whole thing:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...ar+Buyer's+Guide+&contentId=ross_surv_gear_bg
 
andrew7978 said:
First of all it seems to me there is a lot of flip flopping on this forum. When I fist joined this forum back in March, all I heard about were fixed blades and how bear grylls was so stupid for only carrying a folder etc etc. Now I have seen several threads including this one in which people say a folder is there primary woods knife. Just wondering what the reason for that is.

I agree a multi tool is not the best. I carry my leatherman as a secondary and thought i would give is some use. I was working on getting fine shaving from some birch bark as tinder. To do this I scrape side to side with the blade. I could feel this stressing the blade at the joint. I switched over to my f1 and felt much more comfortable.
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Who's flip flopping? Bookworm said it is his primary knife, does that mean woods knife or EDC? Folders do have there place. I always have my folder on me. They are easy to carry and the fact that you have it on you is what counts. You can't use what you don't have.
 
I tried the multitool thing and it didn't work for me so I went back to my regular folder in my trio; a chopper, small fixed blade and a folder. In my case it's a Woodsman's Pal, a Case Ridgeback Drop point or Buck stag Alpha Hunter and a Trapper. I started a thread about a couple days ago about just carrying a folder. I won't ever use a multi tool in the woods again. All I used was the main blade and that was it. The rest was just a waste. Though I am slowly reverting back to just carrying a folder and fixed blade like when I first started hiking years ago. I never had a problem finding wood to burn or had the necessity for a chopper.
 
I'm not sure he's giving "bad" advice. It all depends. Before multi-tools (we oldtimers remember those days) all you took was a folder like a Buck 110 or maybe a hunting knife like a Buck 119. A lot of guys just carried a KaBar or AF Survival knife. Then these multi-tools came along so we added one of those too. A lot of guys realized that's all they really needed in the woods.

I think it depends on the situation. I've never been in a situation where I think I *needed* more than my Leatherman but then I've never had to rely on just that to make a comfortable overnight stay as I never go into the back country without a pack.

I think most are probably well served by having a proper knife AND a multi-tool even if the multi-tool is the primary knife you use outdoors.

I can tell you, I've used my Buck 501's more than any other knife I've owned and would feel they're capable for all but the most extreme circumstances. These days, one rides in one pack along with a Fallkniven F1 AND a small multi-tool like a Leatherman P4. The other pack has a the other 501 plus the larger Leatherman Blast. I'm also adding an F1 to that pack. Each pack also now carries a Gerber retractable wood saw. They're featherweight and much better cutters than the little saw blades on SAK's and multi-tools.

Honestly, I think I'd be pretty good for a few days with nothing more than the Blast as I rarely have need to chop anything (besides, it has a little saw blade).

I really don't think his advice is "bad", just somewhat narrow.
 
magneto said:
Who's flip flopping? Bookworm said it is his primary knife, does that mean woods knife or EDC? Folders do have there place. I always have my folder on me. They are easy to carry and the fact that you have it on you is what counts. You can't use what you don't have.
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in full honesty, i posted that before the thread got bumped over to the survival forum. in that context, i do use my gerber out in the desert, but mostly because my bump isn't here yet.
 
andrew7978 said:
First of all it seems to me there is a lot of flip flopping on this forum. When I fist joined this forum back in March, all I heard about were fixed blades and how bear grylls was so stupid for only carrying a folder etc etc.
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Flip flopping on a public forum? Registered Fixed-Bladers and card-carrying Folderites? Yeah, right.

I don't recall anyone bad-mouthing Grylls for using a folder. Bashing his knives with a rock, heck yes. Climbing down waterfalls or spending the night in a hotel, yessssss, I heard that. Squeezing the water from elephant poo, yup. The guys on Jackass make more sense :rolleyes:

Any tool, be it an SAK Classic or a 30" machete, needs to be used properly and with some care to the design and material limits. I include a Leatherman Wave as one of my survival tools and for that matter, the blades are better than most of the SAK's I own. They are cutting tools for sure, and poor pry bars. I sure wouldn't have any problem cooking up some tinder with one. I could do it with a singe-edge razor blade or a sharp rock if I was going to die! [insert video of Dale scraping away and praying while trying not to drip sweat on the tinder]
 
Stick around longer andrew7978 you will see more flip flopping as time wares on, when I joined the talk was all about large choppers then along came the scandi grinds, bushcraft knives etc. etc. and there was not alot of love for folders. I was wondering what was I missing? Now it would seem everyone is carrying on about they never really need any cutting when camping whereas before everyone was batoning. It would seem the flavor of the month is the traditional stockman type slip-joint. Which is a descent change especially for those of us who use them regulary.
 
Let's add in some context here.

It's perfectly natural on a forum like this to take up a discussion of one kind of knife and elaborate on how useful it can be. It's not flip-flopping to turn to another discussion and elaborate on how useful a multitool would be, or how it could be all the knife you would need.

Both concepts have value. It also depends on whether you're going out for a dayhike, out hunting for a few days, or stuck in uncharted wilderness for a week.

Besides, some people have more experience in the wild, or simply enjoy minimalism. "The more you know, the less you need." Others enjoy carrying a heavy pack so when they make camp, they'll have a few luxuries, AND get the chance to try out different toys: an axe, a saw, a chopper, a folder ... for fun, for training, for convenience.

This forum as a whole doesn't flip-flop: it doesn't have just one point of view at a time. Individuals in different situations will vary.
 
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