Bad Survival Advice Makes Me Wonder...

Diamond Dog said:
Stick around longer andrew7978 you will see more flip flopping as time wares on, when I joined the talk was all about large choppers then along came the scandi grinds, bushcraft knives etc. etc. and there was not alot of love for folders. I was wondering what was I missing? Now it would seem everyone is carrying on about they never really need any cutting when camping whereas before everyone was batoning. It would seem the flavor of the month is the traditional stockman type slip-joint. Which is a descent change especially for those of us who use them regulary.
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I know what you are talking about, and it looks like we joined up about the same time. When I first started here, EVERYONE talked like all they used were their damn Busse knives and F1's to take down the almighty wildy single handedly :rolleyes:. I always felt a little left out with all of the fixed blade talk. I'm a folder carrying person so fixed blades aren't a big deal to me. If it's not my emerson commander, it's my benchmade rukus (as seen below). I do just fine with a folder and my SAK One-Hand-Trekker. In boy scouts all I ever used was the camilus boy scout deluxe which was basically a SAK just for scouts. It's amazing how before I started buying expensive folders all I ever "needed" was such a small knife, so I do believe that a multi tool would work perfectly fine if that is all you had, but I'd still want to have my designated blade on me ;).
 
The Cabela guy is both right and wrong.

Right: a multitool is more versatile than a single blade folder or a fixed blade. In these times with scares of this and that a multi is also more PC than the other choices. In the office jungle there are more things that needs screwing or plying (using a plyer) than pure cutting. I use the tip of my LM to open packing boxes etc.

Wrong: a multitool is not as strong as a "combat specops" folder or a fixed. A multi as the only cutting tool is better than nothing but not better than a fixed.

So I guess the best combination is to have a multi when you are walking on hard surface and a fixed when the ground gets soft. :)

A single blade folder is better than nothing. A "combat specops" folder is better than a regular one. A multi is more versatile but usually not as sturdy as a "combat specops" folder. A fixed is better than most, but at the same time least politically correct at the office.
 
Diamond Dog said:
Stick around longer andrew7978 you will see more flip flopping as time wares on, when I joined the talk was all about large choppers then along came the scandi grinds, bushcraft knives etc. etc. and there was not alot of love for folders. I was wondering what was I missing? Now it would seem everyone is carrying on about they never really need any cutting when camping whereas before everyone was batoning. It would seem the flavor of the month is the traditional stockman type slip-joint. Which is a descent change especially for those of us who use them regulary.
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+1
You are right Diamond... I haven't been here too long but I can see what you mean. I have seen that choopers then bushcrafth then folders evolution... That is pretty much why I have a new traded RAT 7 at home, an F1 on the way and some folders (and firesteels) on muy "buy list".... lol. Ok ok, I didn't buy them just because I read here about them, I wanted them badly long before I joined Bladeforums. And before I joined Bladeforums I have no idea what batoning was all about...

Mikel
 
I personally find that between a multi-tool and an axe (Gerber saw if I am traveling light and fast), I can do everything I need to do. Hauling some huge Rambo knife around would just be wasted effort.....

I do realize that some folks feel that a large knife falls somewhere in between a mulit-tool and an axe. But, a large knife isn't made for fine work, and isn't really designed for chopping either, so in my mind it is a compromise that doesn't really do either task very well.

I do carry an Emerson CQC-12 when I am outdoors, but it an SD weapon and not a "survival" knife.
 
Well, it's not that bad advice. It's a lot better to carry a multi-tool than to carry nothing. It's also true that few survival tasks absolutely require a fixed blade, much less a large fixed blade (some people on this forum seem to have some kind of an injury that prevents them from understanding that not all fixed blades are large, but that's the subject of another thread entirely). On the other hand, it's also true that few survival tasks require any kind of knife, even a folder or a multi-tool. A lot, even most of the stuff you can do bare-handed, or with a stick and stone. With that said, it's obviously better to carry proper gear unless your goal is to have the lightest gear possible.

I see absolutely no benefit to having a multitool rather than a fixed blade in a outdoor survival situation. Sure, it has more tricksy "blades". So what? What do I need them for outdoors? In the office or garage, there would be uses for them, but little in the "wild." I do see downsides, though. The multi-tool is weak and prone to failure, it has crappy ergonomics, it's unbearably annoying to use if the weather is cold because of the use metal in handles, and it's difficult to keep clean. Me, I'd rather use a real knife, one that doesn't fold in any direction. If it's longer than 2" of blade, then that's enough for me. It'll weigh less than most multitools, too. :p
 
If you are choosing to go into the wild, and you might stay there longer than a dayhike.....I would recomend a fixed blade. I believe without a shadow of a doubt, that most of you that claim to be fine with a folder, are just that, fine. My issue is that you are choosing a substandard tool for the job. I believe that we can all agree, a good fixed blade, say a Bravo1, is better than a Gerber multi tool....for the long run. If your woods skills are honed, all you need is a 4" fixed blade, to make do. Soooo, why not carry multible tools, a small fixed blade and a SAK or Gerber multi tool...and an Axe and a FBM, and a small necker for making a spear.........and a chainsaw....sounds like my woods kit:D


More small knife, big knife arguments are boring....carry what you want...lets get to the gear threads and camp sight pics:D
 
well, 2 cents time.

my neck of the woods there are not a lot of trees that have phillips or flathead screws in them that i need to undo to make tinder, nor are there trees requiring can openers, nor are there nuts to undo or wires to strip. .

there is however, brutal thick dense deadfall blocking the way, there is large limbs, most which would snap a multitools blade in very short order.

So keep yer multitools for your neck of the woods, in my neck of the woods a large chopper (ax, hatchet, machete, kukri or other large chopper knife) is needed, along with a nice medium blade for aand a small blade to round out the package.

its easier and safer to use a large blade to do large tasks, than to try to force a dinky multitool blade thru 12" of wood.

nuff said, attack away.

:cool:
 
I myself grew up before the multitools were almost even invented. I am used to do things with a Mora knife so therefore a multi is a new thing. Before I got my first multi I used to carry a single folder, not for defence but I realised that there were always things that needed to be cut.
 
nodh said:
I myself grew up before the multitools were almost even invented. I am used to do things with a Mora knife so therefore a multi is a new thing. Before I got my first multi I used to carry a single folder, not for defence but I realised that there were always things that needed to be cut.
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Hey Nodh! It is a little off topic but I guess that we all are talking about Mora's here and I just felt like asking... You are from Sweeden and I guess that you buy them localy but... Do you know about any internet or eBay store here in Europe who carries them? I just don't feel like buying them overseas while they are crafted here.

Everyone talks about them and I just feel like having one and give it a try. Any suggestions for my first one?

Mikel
 
Well, I'm of the mind that multitools are of little use in the woods.
Of the few times I took mine into the woods, I used. . .the knife. Everything else was a waste.
I do cary a SAK Rucksack, and the vast majority of the time, I'll use. . .the knife. Sometimes the saw or even the corkscrew (although that was a special case, there were sleeping bags involved, but little camping and even less "surviving" was done).

I'll use a multitool almost every day at work, but in the woods? They're tits on a bull. And if all I'm going to use is the knife, there's better knives to be had for the same size and weight.
 
andrew7978 said:
First of all it seems to me there is a lot of flip flopping on this forum. When I fist joined this forum back in March, all I heard about were fixed blades and how bear grylls was so stupid for only carrying a folder etc etc. Now I have seen several threads including this one in which people say a folder is there primary woods knife. Just wondering what the reason for that is....
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You've only seen this forum for a relatively short while. Less than a year. So what you have seen is a "snapshot" of the natural ebb and flow of posting member's interests and opinions. The appearance of " lot of flip flopping on this forum" is just a product of this perspective.

New members come on board constantly, and old members either lose interest in rehashing topics they consider beat to death, or just find other sites more attuned to their specific interests such as primitive wilderness skills, knifemaking, backpacking, etc. Those of you who are paying members, do a quick forum search for threads titled "Best" and you will see what I mean.
 
Having worked in the bush for many years, I would never solely rely on a multitool. I carry a Leatherman Supertool, have for years, but the blades have rarely been used. I have broken the file and two of the flat screwdrivers, so I really don't believe that I can rely on the two blades on my Leatherman to hold up any different. I have a SAK (Climber or Camper) always in my pack or cruiser's vest, a small sturdy fixed blade belt knife (currently a Busse Active Duty, formerly a Coldsteel Master Hunter) and an axe (Sandvik). I will also quite often have my Spyderco (formerly a Caly, now a Paramilitary) clipped in my pocket.
 
I EDC a RC-3 and a LM wave ,whether outdoors or at work, I use both items alot.... nothing wrong with a multi-tool , IMO...
 
I rarely use the knife blade on my Leatherman for several reasons. I'd rather use a folder or fixed blade.

Reason #1, the handle. It is going to be uncomfortable for extended use and worse if your in a cold environment.

Reason #2, the blade. The biggest problem with the blade is that it is off center.

Maybe if more companies designed a multitool around a knife versus a pliers this wouldn't be an issue. Seems like the blade is just an after thought on most multitools.
 
I have a total of five multi-tools. Three are fullsize and the Blast goes in one of my packs. One each of the remaining fullsize resides in our vehicle's gloveboxes. The other two are the little LM Squirt P4's and one is clipped onto my other larger daypack while the second rides in my little belt pack. I find the needle nose pliers on the P4 to be very useful and if for no other reason, they are worth their weight (2-3 oz).

Like I said earlier in this thread though, the knives I've used more often than any other are my little Buck 501 folders. I rarely have used my Buck 119 or F1 unless they were the only knife along. I don't need to chop things, I need to do small tasks. I carry a larger knife because, as a former boy scout, I like to be prepared, just in case.

I think 80-90% of the people wandering around on trails, not specifically hunting or fishing or practicing bushcraft, are just fine with a fullsize multi-tool. It's only when you need more than one of those blades that you should have a proper knife. I carry a couple proper knifes though because I like the security of knowing they're there.

Still, if someone said carry only one thing, I'd prefer a stout small knife (could I at least have the P4 in my pocket though?).
 
Here's why the multi-tool or SAK trumps a single-blade knife for survival:

1st) A person is more likely to avoid breaking a multi-tool or SAK that a large heavy duty knife.
Why?
Because we all understand that a multi-tool or SAK is not overly strong.
We understand that it was not intended to be abused or pushed beyond its limits.
We are much more likely to use the various tools as intended and not as blunt crude heavy force tools.

But if one has a knife that is supposedly designed for "hard" or "heavy" use, I think the user is more likely to expect it to handle some abuse.
But since no knife is immune from being broken, the heavy use knife is more likely to be pushed beyond its limits.

2nd) What happens if the knife does break?

Let's say you've got a single-blade knife....for whatever reason you push it beyond its limits and the blade snaps:
Now you have a handle without a blade and a blade without a handle to survive with....certainly not the ideal combo for survival.

Now let's say you have a multi-tool like the Leatherman Charge....and for whatever reason you push the blade beyond its limits and the blade snaps:
Now you have a piece of broken blade, and a multi-tool without a plain-edge main blade.
But the Charge still has a woodsaw, a metal saw/file, various srewdrivers, pliers, wire cutters/strippers, and a serrated edge sheepsfoot blade with gutting hook.
Certainly not the ideal survival combo, but much better than a broken single-blade knife.
 
All I know is, I made it in Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, and to my late 20's w/o a fixed blade knife. As a matter of fact, I bought my first fixed blade this past year, and I turn 28 in Feb. I've done all kinds of camping with no more than a hatchet and a SAK or Leatherman Supertool. Never had a problem. Now, I can think of some situations where a fixed blade might have made some difference, but I really doubt it. We get really hung up on it sometimes, but the "need" for a dedicated knife is often a personal one, and not an objective one.
I have yet to chop down a tree with a knife, but I never had to, I always have a hatchet with me. Kindling and tinder was always gathered with a small folder. I will admit to using a Machete once to collect kindling from dead scrub, but I don't consider a Machete a knife, its a chopping tool. So there you go! Its all in how you feel about it, its not "bad" advice.
 
Flip flopping is a natural progression through learning new ways of doing things and improving ones skills. In the bush, carrying and using different tools is multitasking. :D
 
Now, I can think of some situations where a fixed blade might have made some difference, but I really doubt it. :confused: Self doubt...try again ,I am a avid outdoorsman and to me all blades have a purpose and a job,my opinion only but I never go outdoors with out a fixed blade knife whether it is my RC3 or RTAKII or any number of blades in-between...I always have a fixed,pocket(SAK) & LMwave...bad habit but a safe one in my eyes..
 
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