Bad trade from Yager

actually, i have been in this thread, looking at another post,did not see this until now thanks to a pm(thanks). i also fell asleep for a couple hours. while mvf did contact me and say the knife never arrived, ups assured me the delivered it. i started a claim, and kept in contact with Mike with the progress via phone & email. on 09/05, i received an email from mike stating he got the knife. he metioned a wire edge, and then said "anyway, alls well that ends well" than on 09/12 emailed and wanted to reverese. i had been contacted before all this happened about my mr i had for sale, which already sold. i told the person that it was but had another coming in that i could sell or trade. when mike finally replied he received his knife and "all was well" i proceeded with my trade. since this was a trade with mvf, i offered to buy it back for cost if he was interested. i have all the emails and can post them. i told him some of my emails to him were not going through and coming back as undeliverable. if need i can post them. to me this was a done deal...
 
also keep in mind the knife was delivered on 08/24.
i value my rep here very much. as for other people in this post making negative comments, with whom i never dealt with before, i hope they rethink there posts after this. i do value my reputation, not just here but everywhere. the offer to buy the mole back was not made to try to get it at a reduced rate, $250 IS ALL I HAD. I tried to get into another one to possible trade, but have not been sucessful. barrabas74's post was about another attempt to aquire one, but it did not work out.
 
I would be interested in the reply to that. If he did indeed get it on 9/5 and say "all is well" and then decided to reverse a week later then he is out of luck. When I make a trade, as soon as I am contacted by the other party and they say "done deal, I am happy" then to me it is complete.
 
rec 8/25
You can reach me at 909-996-4155

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Yager [mailto:danyager@comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 3:14 PM
To: Mike and Eileen
Subject: Re: Mud Razor


ups, not usps
http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processRequest

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike and Eileen" <suzrider@adelphia.net>
To: <danyager@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: Mud Razor


> How did you send it? USPS doesn't show anything under that number.
> Also, there was no notice of attempted delivery. We will be leaving
> town soon, so I would really like to get this taken care of.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: danyager@comcast.net [mailto:danyager@comcast.net]
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 3:37 AM
> To: Mike and Eileen
> Subject: Re: Mud Razor
>
>
> 1z462 738 03 4481 830 7
> I show it being delivered on 8/24 11:05am
> Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Mike and Eileen" <suzrider@adelphia.net>
> Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:15:38
> To:"'Dan Yager'" <danyager@comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: Mud Razor
>
> Dan, I have still not received the Mole- do you have a tracking
> number?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Yager [mailto:danyager@comcast.net]
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 6:56 PM
> To: Mike and Eileen
> Subject: Re: Mud Razor
>
>
> sorry, been eal busy at work. i shipped the mole friday, and the razor

> was waiting for me when i got home, thanks again
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike and
> Eileen: <mailto:suzrider@adelphia.net>
> To: danyager@comcast.net: <mailto:danyager@comcast.net>
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 9:27 PM
> Subject: Mud Razor
>
>
> Dan,
>
> Did the Mud Razor get there? We mailed it Wednesday, so it should have

> gotten there Friday- Saturday at the latest. Please let me know if you

> have received it and when you mailed the Mole.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> suzrider@adelphia.net: <mailto:suzrider@adelphia.net>
>
 
rec on 09/05
Hi Dan,

Did you talk to UPS today? Guess who came to my house today- a gentleman who lives at 15847 MARIPOSA AVE. (does that look anything like Monteca Dr. to you?- me either) He said he'd been on vacation until today! So I guess you won't need to worry about getting your $ out of the corporate office!

The thing that pisses me off is I'm sure they asked the driver to verify that he delivered to the right address and either he made the same mistake twice, or he just didn't bother and lied about it. BTW, the knife was fine (thanks to your wrapping) but the box was totally beat- 3 of the sides were caved in.

So- how do you like the Mud Razor? I think I liked it better than the Mole Jack, especially the handle, but I did want to check out a smaller knife. I was really looking forward to how they said the Mole had a "special super sharp" edge- yeah, right- nice wire edge! I can't believe for what we pay for these knives they can't do a decent job of sharpening them- I haven't gotten a sharp Busse yet!

Anyway, alls well that ends well. Sorry for the drama, but I guess you can thank UPS for that!

Mike
suzrider@adelphia.net
 
rec on 09/12
Hi Dan,

Would you consider reversing our trade? As the one requesting this, I would pay for shipping. I'm not really happy with the condition of the Mole.

Mike
suzrider@adelphia.net
 
sent on 09/12

i have already traded the razor. do you mean you do not like the mole, or there is something wrong with it?
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike and Eileen
To: 'Dan Yager'
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:14 PM
Subject: Mole


Hi Dan,

Would you consider reversing our trade? As the one requesting this, I would pay for shipping. I'm not really happy with the condition of the Mole.

Mike
suzrider@adelphia.net
 
i then did not here anything back from him, so on 09/14 sent

sorry, it's already traded. you see to be having emails problems , it keeps getting bounced back to me, please respond to this if you get it, thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike and Eileen
To: 'Dan Yager'
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:14 PM
Subject: Mole


Hi Dan,

Would you consider reversing our trade? As the one requesting this, I would pay for shipping. I'm not really happy with the condition of the Mole.

Mike
suzrider@adelphia.net
 
this is mike's response

Thanks for the reply
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Yager [mailto:danyager@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 4:23 PM
To: Mike and Eileen
Subject: Re: Mole


sorry, it's already traded. you see to be having emails problems , it keeps getting bounced back to me, please respond to this if you get it, thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike and Eileen
To: 'Dan Yager'
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:14 PM
Subject: Mole


Hi Dan,

Would you consider reversing our trade? As the one requesting this, I would pay for shipping. I'm not really happy with the condition of the Mole.

Mike
suzrider@adelphia.net
 
now that the facts are out, i will address the comments at the end of his post.
"Please note that he never asked why I wasn’t happy with the condition of the knife- this tells me that either he knew why, didn’t care, or both. I see offering me $250 for the knife not as an attempt to make things right, but an attempt to take further advantage of me."

see above emails, i did ask him. and in his post about finally getting the knife, he mentioned the wire edge only, but that he liked his mud razor better. he did not ask to trade back at that point, which i would have gladly done.
.

"I could deal with the slow shipping and poor communication, but as far as I’m concerned, the knife was misrepresented and absolutely no thought was given to fairness or creating a satisfied customer- so much for "the deal's not done 'til everyone is happy"- Buyer Beware!"

ups still tells me they delivered this to his address on 08/24. that was fast shipping. my communication with him was great, i stayed in contact by email and phone. i didn't even post all the emails, due to redundancy.

the knife was not misrepresented, and if he thought it was he should have said so when he received it.

sounds more like "buyer remorse"

"The thing that pisses me off is I'm sure they asked the driver to verify that he delivered to the right address and either he made the same mistake twice, or he just didn't bother and lied about it. BTW, the knife was fine (thanks to your wrapping) but the box was totally beat- 3 of the sides were caved in.

So- how do you like the Mud Razor? I think I liked it better than the Mole Jack, especially the handle, but I did want to check out a smaller knife. I was really looking forward to how they said the Mole had a "special super sharp" edge- yeah, right- nice wire edge! I can't believe for what we pay for these knives they can't do a decent job of sharpening them- I haven't gotten a sharp Busse yet!
Anyway, alls well that ends well. Sorry for the drama, but I guess you can thank UPS for that!

Mike
suzrider@adelphia.net
"
"
 
From my perspective when trading, once I receive a knife I immediately let the other party know if I'm happy. If they haven't received the knife from me I will not carry or otherwise use the received knife until I get confirmation from them and we both say "Deal done."

In fact, I just had one of those email exchanges tonight with another forumite. :thumbup:

Once the deal is done though, I'll edc it, chop with it, sharpen it, or otherwise trade/sell it. I would be very disappointed in the "buyer's remorse" if they came back several days after telling me "okay" and said they wanted to reverse.

I'm ok if someone makes a mistake in description and tries to rectify the problem. I can't tolerate the wishy-washy buyers remorse syndrome. Life is just too short to always be looking back.

I'm not suggesting that is necessarily what happened here but that is my own experience.
 
here is the last email on received from mike
"Absolutely. I would like to get enough for it to replace my Mud Razor,
though. What did you trade the Mud Razor for? Do you have anything else
you would trade? How much would you buy it for- the only Mud Razors on
the exchange are $380 & $400! (I think they're high). I really
appreciate you working with me on this."

i replied with my offer to purchase it back for what i had into it, and INSURED IT FOR, and heard nothing until someone(thanks again!) pm'd me today.

i feel he should have contacted me before posting here.
 
Usually there's a three day inspection period where the knife can be looked over carefully and the final decision made. It sounds like there was more than the three-day period, and if that is the case, selling the knife or re-trading it should have been simply fine.

There also appears to be an acknowledgement that "all ended well, sorry for the drama".

I don't know, sounds like Buyer's remorse.maybe???????:confused:

Does NOT however sound like, look like, or smell like a bad deal.......

****This is my opinion only. With this in mind, give it the suitable weight one of my opinions are worth!!:D :D
 
As far as I am concerned Dan did all he could be expected to do. His explanation leaves me with the feeling that he is a stand up guy. Once he received the message stating that all is well that ends well, it is understandable thathe felt the trade was a done deal. At that point he had every right to do whatever he wanted with his new knife.

Dan, sorry if it appeared that I was overly critical.
 
I can see many of Dan's points and accept responsibility for much of the mis-communication- with one exception- I never got this post:

"i have already traded the razor. do you mean you do not like the mole, or there is something wrong with it?"

My "all's well that ends well" was in regard to the knife finally arriving, and my saying the knife is fine was meant to mean "in spite of the fact that the box was crushed". However, I can see how this could easily be misconstrued and I will accept the responsibility for the misunderstanding. Please note that I did mention the wire edge.

Some of the things I take exception to:

Our trade was agreed to on 8/15. Dan received my MR on 8/18- how does that make the 8/24 delivery of the Mole "fast shipping"?

He also claims his communication with me was great- once the trade was agreed to, I had to initiate every conversation or email exchange except the one when he asked if I'd be interested in selling the Mole. If you read my response, you can see that I was very willing to explore ways to work this out, but he did not reply with any information about what he traded or sold the MR for (his business really), or if he was willing to trade anything else.

Nothing here changes the fact the knife was listed as mint-

From: Dan Yager [mailto:danyager@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:07 PM
To: Mike and Eileen
Subject: Re: Mole Jack for Mud Razor


it is mint and brand new. what condition is the mud razor?

-or justifies the lowball offer.

TBC
 
MVF said:
Please note that I did mention the wire edge.
Click to expand...
You did know when you traded for the Mole Jack that it has a different edge than that of the Satin Jack? Or, as Skunk would say, "special extra sharp Mole Edge", right?
 
Let me again say that my concerns were not the shipping or communication. As it stands, the offer to sell the knife back to Dan for $250 has still been his only response.

I accept full responsibility for the fact that Dan thought the trade was a done deal because of the wording I used and the time lag in my asking for a reversal. If these 2 things are enough to justify letting things stay as they are, then so be it.

This is only my second trade (the first went fine, as have all my purchases) and as I mentioned, it took me some time and research here for me to know what, if any recourse I had.

None of this would have been an issue if the knife hadn't been mis-represented. I would not have requested a trade back just because I like the MR better (although, if I understand what I have read here, that can be done).

My problem is that I traded a truly mint limited edition knife for a flawed limited edition knife that was advertised as mint.

I would not feel right in passing this knife on (at least not without disclosing its condition), and I don't really want to turn a limited edition knife (only my second) into a user, either.

If Dan is OK with this situation, then I feel this posting should stand. If he wants to make it right, I have already expressed my willingness to be flexible, especially since I accept responsibility for the MR being gone.
 
Mike, you did mention the wire edge, but you made it sound like edge problems were something you had come to expect on Busse knives.

This deal didn't work out perfectly, and that is going to happen sometimes. If there were problems with the knife then Dan should have included them in his description. Maybe he should have shipped his part of the deal sooner, but sometimes life gets in the way. Even so, I still believe that he did nothing wrong in trading the knife he got from you.

Take this as something to think about only. Maybe something can be worked out to get the knife sent back to Busse to have the problems fixed (Busse would probably do this under warranty), with Dan paying for the shipping? You two should talk this out and come to some kind of compromise. I think it can be worked out.
 
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