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Bad trade from Yager
- Thread starter MVF
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
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Yager, I'm glad you got your side in, if I had received this statement "BTW, the knife was fine" after a trade, I would have considered it a done deal also.
KnifeHead
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2006
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- 5,561
I'm sure everyone that reads this hopes that Yager and MVF can come to some mutual understanding and "shake" when this is all over. I think this is good reading for anyone that is thinking about or has ever done a deal over the net. There are some other critical learning points that some of us may have thought about but haven't put into words so I'm going to take a stab at it.
Obviously communication was where the breakdown occured. When I have bought or sold anything over the net, I tend to "over communicate", especially as the seller. I basically send messages about every move I make concerning the sale. If I don't get a response, I always assume the message wasn't received because you shouldn't rely solely on Internet communications for money transactions.
If you sell or trade or buy with contacts over the net, you probably should either not do it when you might be away from your computer, phone, PDA, etc(as in business trip or vacation) OR explain what will be happening with your schedule BEFORE you make the deal.
We have all been conditioned to believe Internet dealing is risky. Well ofcourse it is, and so is relying on a stinkin computer for important information without a backup. (when was the last time you backed up your data
)
Don't assume things when doing business here or anywhere else on the net. That will only make an ASS out of U and....well....not ME but somebody else I bet
Hey, I'm not preachin to the ones that know this already, but to the ones that might be scared of doing an honest trade or purchase/sale here in the forums.
Best regards to MVF and Yager. Hope everything works out.
Obviously communication was where the breakdown occured. When I have bought or sold anything over the net, I tend to "over communicate", especially as the seller. I basically send messages about every move I make concerning the sale. If I don't get a response, I always assume the message wasn't received because you shouldn't rely solely on Internet communications for money transactions.
If you sell or trade or buy with contacts over the net, you probably should either not do it when you might be away from your computer, phone, PDA, etc(as in business trip or vacation) OR explain what will be happening with your schedule BEFORE you make the deal.
We have all been conditioned to believe Internet dealing is risky. Well ofcourse it is, and so is relying on a stinkin computer for important information without a backup. (when was the last time you backed up your data
)Don't assume things when doing business here or anywhere else on the net. That will only make an ASS out of U and....well....not ME but somebody else I bet
Hey, I'm not preachin to the ones that know this already, but to the ones that might be scared of doing an honest trade or purchase/sale here in the forums.
Best regards to MVF and Yager. Hope everything works out.
My 2 cents worth: Based on the time-frames involved and MVF's communication (or lack thereof) subsequent to receiving the MJ, I cannot fault Yager for assuming the deal was done and acting accordingly. I would however like to better underdstand Yager's decision to initially describe the knife in question as "mint" since, presumably, everything else to do with this transaction proceeded from that. How 'bout it, Yag? Was she "mint" as described when you sent her off? Could it have been damaged during shipping?
I hope this really does end up being a case of "all's well that ends well." Best to both of you.
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2002
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I've dealt with Dan, found him to be both honorable and fair. His description of what I was buying was spot-on. I'd gladly do business again with Dan. :thumbup:
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2005
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Just how big of a "spot" are we talking about? I have bought coated knives before that have had almost like a pinhole in the coating.
Does it look like it is from use? Does it look like a factory flub? Do you have a photo of this?
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2005
- Messages
- 437
Thats too bad. For the most part trading goes ok, you just dont hear much about it. Mostly you just here the bad stuff. It has though become more and more common for somebody to post a bad experience only to find out they have neglected to mention a few key points.
This thread for instance made it sound like Yager was sneaky and a bit unethical. Once all the facts came out it seems that Yager did everything right and got a bad wrap that was not deserved.
If you ever have a chance to do a trade, just search this forum and see how the other party behaves...do they ALWAYS have a problem? If their communication good? A search is no guarantee as many people do lots of trades and are never mentioned here but it would give you a place to start.
- Joined
- May 19, 2002
- Messages
- 1,108
I like someones idea of sending it back for warranty. If it left the factory flawed then no doubt Mr Busse will make it right. Put your heads together, and decide what's fair on the shipping.
i have pics of the knife as it came from Scott, i can email them to anyone. i have sent a copy to G-2 to see if he will put it up here for me. there is nothing wrong with that edge, it does not have to go back to busse, although i am sure they would do whatever mvf asked them to do. it had the small "wire" a very sharp, but not stropped busse edge can have. i did not strop it, as i was not using that one, so that if traded or sold the new owner knew the knife had never been used, as that edge would fall off the first time the blade was used. it was one of the sharpest busse's i have had. it came directly from the company store, if there was a problem i would have contacted scott and he would have made it right. there was no need to.
i cannot help the fact that 2 knives, which both originally cost $257, have appreciated and are being sold for different values now. the mud razors have climbed up around $400, the mole is around $330 or so. i really think that if the trade had been the other way, we would not be having this conversation.
the mole could still be sold for the original purchase price of the razor at least, and probalbly considerably more. i even told him that in my email.
the only other solution as i see it, if i get another mole in trade, i would gladly exchange it for the one i sent, as long as he has done nothing to it, and it is still as i sent it.
i feel confident that if the knife is still as i shipped it, anyone could trade theirs for it and receive the same or better than what they have.
i cannot help the fact that 2 knives, which both originally cost $257, have appreciated and are being sold for different values now. the mud razors have climbed up around $400, the mole is around $330 or so. i really think that if the trade had been the other way, we would not be having this conversation.
the mole could still be sold for the original purchase price of the razor at least, and probalbly considerably more. i even told him that in my email.
the only other solution as i see it, if i get another mole in trade, i would gladly exchange it for the one i sent, as long as he has done nothing to it, and it is still as i sent it.
i feel confident that if the knife is still as i shipped it, anyone could trade theirs for it and receive the same or better than what they have.
For those of you who responded with constructive suggestions- Thank you.
For those who responded with your good experiences with Yager- I'm glad you got a good trade, but what does that have to do with this? I seriously doubt any of you would have been happy if you had gotten this knife.
To Dan-
I have said repeatedly that I accept the blame for the Mud Razor being traded.
I did contact you- you offered me $250 for the Mole- Not "I've only got $250 now, but next week/month/whenever I could give you $XXX" or- "but I could trade you XXX". Let's face it, you have not made ANY attempt to make this right other than the lowball offer.
"i value my rep here very much" -see answer above
"i cannot help the fact that 2 knives, which both originally cost $257, have appreciated and are being sold for different values now. the mud razors have climbed up around $400, the mole is around $330 or so. i really think that if the trade had been the other way, we would not be having this conversation."
- This is totally unfounded- not to mention that, last I looked, These were asking prices only, with no takers. You have no cause to make this accusation.
To all who agree with this these statements-
"Once all the facts came out it seems that Yager did everything right and got a bad wrap that was not deserved." and "Does NOT however sound like, look like, or smell like a bad deal......."
-I seiously doubt that if you had traded for or purchased a knife advertised as "it is mint and brand new" that you would be happy with this knife.
Maybe I'm wrong and my standards are too high. I do know that no one will EVER receive a knife like this from me without knowing EXACTLY what they are getting. I don't understand how you think he did nothing wrong in listing this knife as mint.
Just to clarify some of the other points- The missing coating will not show at the angle that picture was taken at. Also, as mentioned, it is on a point so will be very hard to show on a picture. I can't really tell if it was missed at the factory or was chipped off- the way the knife was packaged, I doubt it could have happened in shipping.
The wire edge is actually pretty thick and covers approximately 1/3 - 1/2 of the edge. "Just cutting something" will not remove it. I will either send it back to Busse or sharpen it myself and keep it as a user.
At this point, I guess I just chalk this up as a learning experience.
For those who responded with your good experiences with Yager- I'm glad you got a good trade, but what does that have to do with this? I seriously doubt any of you would have been happy if you had gotten this knife.
To Dan-
I have said repeatedly that I accept the blame for the Mud Razor being traded.
I did contact you- you offered me $250 for the Mole- Not "I've only got $250 now, but next week/month/whenever I could give you $XXX" or- "but I could trade you XXX". Let's face it, you have not made ANY attempt to make this right other than the lowball offer.
"i value my rep here very much" -see answer above
"i cannot help the fact that 2 knives, which both originally cost $257, have appreciated and are being sold for different values now. the mud razors have climbed up around $400, the mole is around $330 or so. i really think that if the trade had been the other way, we would not be having this conversation."
- This is totally unfounded- not to mention that, last I looked, These were asking prices only, with no takers. You have no cause to make this accusation.
To all who agree with this these statements-
"Once all the facts came out it seems that Yager did everything right and got a bad wrap that was not deserved." and "Does NOT however sound like, look like, or smell like a bad deal......."
-I seiously doubt that if you had traded for or purchased a knife advertised as "it is mint and brand new" that you would be happy with this knife.
Maybe I'm wrong and my standards are too high. I do know that no one will EVER receive a knife like this from me without knowing EXACTLY what they are getting. I don't understand how you think he did nothing wrong in listing this knife as mint.
Just to clarify some of the other points- The missing coating will not show at the angle that picture was taken at. Also, as mentioned, it is on a point so will be very hard to show on a picture. I can't really tell if it was missed at the factory or was chipped off- the way the knife was packaged, I doubt it could have happened in shipping.
The wire edge is actually pretty thick and covers approximately 1/3 - 1/2 of the edge. "Just cutting something" will not remove it. I will either send it back to Busse or sharpen it myself and keep it as a user.
At this point, I guess I just chalk this up as a learning experience.
you are still depicting a knife very different from the one i sent. it was new, the cardboard sheath removed, admired for a moment, finger ran down the edge(very sharp) picture taken and put in my safe. taken out once to show my brother. then taken out of safe and shipped to you.
is it possible that the person who had the knife for the 12 days could have opened it and used it? and maybe the ups driver did contact him, and then he reboxed it and returned it to you?
unless we have a drastic difference in what to expect from a Busse edge( they are not highly polished like some knives) the knife i sent you was MINT. if it was not, i would have sent it back to scott myself for replacement.
could you post pictures?
is it possible that the person who had the knife for the 12 days could have opened it and used it? and maybe the ups driver did contact him, and then he reboxed it and returned it to you?
unless we have a drastic difference in what to expect from a Busse edge( they are not highly polished like some knives) the knife i sent you was MINT. if it was not, i would have sent it back to scott myself for replacement.
could you post pictures?
Bill Siegle
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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- Oct 3, 2000
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- 6,844
I'm sorry but if you contacted Yager and told him the trade was complete, that finishes it. Deciding later to trade back or trying to get money out of him is waaaaay out of line. If you couldn't or wouldn't speak up immediately then you give up rights to complain. He is not a store or warranty department. Communication is key and must be swift or you( MVF ) will see this happen again.
