Bad -- True North Knives -- Very Rude Service

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You actually did not have a "contract".

He offered to sell a knife and you agreed to purchase the knife.

However, you changed the material terms of the original offer. You asked him to check the knife and deliver a knife free from defects according to your specifications. At this point, you have made a different offer.

Neil then chose not to accept this new offer.

So, there was no contract. There has to be a "meeting of the minds" to have a contract and you evidently did not have this requirement.
 
Daniel said:
You actually did not have a "contract".

He offered to sell a knife and you agreed to purchase the knife.

However, you changed the material terms of the original offer. You asked him to check the knife and deliver a knife free from defects according to your specifications. At this point, you have made a different offer.

Neil then chose not to accept this new offer.

So, there was no contract. There has to be a "meeting of the minds" to have a contract and you evidently did not have this requirement.
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Daniel for the win. OP OP needs to accept court of public opinion is not on his side. I for one thint TNK is a class act outfit.
 
TKAZ said:
Regardless of how a customer is being and/or acting (I'm not saying you where out of line) there is never a good reason to be rude or mean to a customer, if in fact you feel he was. But, maybe he was not in a good mood or was just given some bad news or something to that effect.
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I think that as a competitor dealer, it may be better form for you to stay out of this as you know nothing of the situation and how many times the gentleman used the word "flaw/flawless" in his communication both written and verbal.

And, by the way, I am in a really good mood, have had no bad news not do I have anything to any effect.

In my opinion it is inappropriate for you to imply that I was rude or mean to this customer.

Neil / BF Dealer
 
Artfully Martial said:
Hopefully future customers will turn this post up on a search and learn from my experience.
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Attention all customers who turn this post up on a search.
I hope you choose to learn from my experience instead of the OP's experience. I have had several dealing with Neil at True North. I have communicated with him in email and on the telephone. I found him to be polite, friendly and professional. I am not a lawyer or a law student but I did finish high school.:D
 
I do not know Neil,but I know of him & his site & that he's a reputeable knife dealer for years.
It seems he spotted the OP from a mile away,it is his business,after all.He headed off any problems before they started
-Vince
 
One persons idea of "flawless" and anothers may vary to a great degree. I pesonally would not sell to someone who stated that if the item was not "flawless" they wanted the purchase cancelled. I might look at a knife with a 1/32 off centered blade and consider it flawless and another person might not. To me, that type of person would be too hard to please!
 
First Neil I don't feel we are in competition at all, I don't feel I affect your business just as much you are not effecting mine. I apologize for getting involved, I was actually trying to stay neutral and not place blame to anyone. I was (obviously no effect) defending you even though it may have seemed to read otherwise. Also - what I wrote was "if in fact you feel he was", I wasn't stating you where I was just stating if HE felt you where.

Once again, I apologize for getting involved it wasn't my intention at all to speak bad of you or anyone.

Be well my friend.

-Tim

Neil Ostroff said:
I think that as a competitor dealer, it may be better form for you to stay out of this as you know nothing of the situation and how many times the gentleman used the word "flaw/flawless" in his communication both written and verbal.

And, by the way, I am in a really good mood, have had no bad news not do I have anything to any effect.

In my opinion it is inappropriate for you to imply that I was rude or mean to this customer.

Neil / BF Dealer
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vwb563 said:
One persons idea of "flawless" and anothers may vary to a great degree. I pesonally would not sell to someone who stated that if the item was not "flawless" they wanted the purchase cancelled. I might look at a knife with a 1/32 off centered blade and consider it flawless and another person might not.
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I think Neil spotted that the OP needed God himself to build the knife for the guy
-Vince
 
Neil Ostroff said:
I think that as a competitor dealer, it may be better form for you to stay out of this as you know nothing of the situation and how many times the gentleman used the word "flaw/flawless" in his communication both written and verbal.

And, by the way, I am in a really good mood, have had no bad news not do I have anything to any effect.

In my opinion it is inappropriate for you to imply that I was rude or mean to this customer.

Neil / BF Dealer
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Wow. Did you even read his post?
 
I don't think a custom knife dealer ships thousands of knives every day. YMMV.

Not all dealers will inspect the knives. I buy from those who do since shipping to and fro is very expensive (TNK has charged me $60 for shipping before (it was a $600 knife), they used fedex/ups? - I am OCONUS). It's nice to develop a good relationship with a dealer who will go out of his way to help you. For eg. NGK, Cutleryshoppe, Charity etc will inspect knives for you, if TNK will not (although I'm sure Neil would as he did for me)

It's really up to the two parties to have a meeting of the minds. If neither seller nor buyer is happy with the terms, then no deal. Never mind the legal debate (you want to sue someone over a $250 knife and incur legal costs? Maybe it's different in the US legal system).

There's no reason to be rude to anyone. We're all just knifeknuts ;)

I'm not defending either party :)
 
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To Artfully Martial-

This will be my only reply to you as this drama is over, and also I am flipping channels now between the hockey game and the world series.

If you want to sling crap then at least be honest.

You told me on the phone that the only reason you wanted to buy this knife from me is that you could not find one elsewhere because all the other dealers you had contacted never really had the knife in stock- as we know, our inventory is real time live, so if it is there for purchase, we have it.

I refused your order, very politely, because you used the words flawless and flaws repeatedly and from my experience this sale would have a recipe for disaster. So, I declined your order- which was never processed nor your payment taken.

Your claim my my price for the knife carried a high premium is incorrect- US$160.00 is MAP for this item- I doubt you could find it elsewhere cheaper.

Also, please note that I did send you a link to the dealer finder on ZT/Kershaws website to help you find the knife elsewhere- that was not a rude thing to to but rather my way of being helpful.

Finally, I am very sorry that we were able to fulfill your order and that you are not able to find this knife.

Finally again- in the 12 years I have been doing this, I have been asked thousands of times to check a knife for blade play aesthetics- never been a problem for me to do that and never will be a problem for 99.99% of the customers.- whether a $160 ZT or a $3000 DDR.

I refused you today because I had a feeling that you and this transaction were going to be a problem and it is usually better to part company early on rather than get into a battle and end up with shipping back and forth and making the carriers and CC companies rich.
Bottom line was that I felt from your persistence and desires for perfection and flawless/flaw etc that you may be somebody that I would be unable to satisfy. I believe that is what I said to you.

Clearly you were disappointed as you also said that finding this knife elsewhere has been a nightmare for you for a very long time...

So good luck with your knife hunting and your business career.

Now, back to the baseball game- I missed the end of the hockey game while writing this.

Thanks to all who stood up for me- much appreciated.

I am now a BladeForums Dealer (since yesterday) and I hope to get to know you all better from now on.

Neil Ostroff
 
There was no need whatsoever to even start this thread. TNK simply chose, as they are free to do, not to engage in a business transaction with someone that they had good reason to believe would likely not have a "meeting of the minds" with them over a vague phrase like "flawless". And his subsequent posts have pretty much shown what a difficult customer he would have been IMO.

What a lame baseless attack on a dealer with a far better than average reputation.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Wow, did you read TKAZ answer more kindly than you? :)
Relax, guys, more light, less heat.
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Yeah, I read it. He shouldn't have even had to post that. He said nothing wrong. Neither did I which makes me wonder about your response. Was I rude in my post? If I was I apologize.

I am relaxed. Was just surprised by Neils response is all.
 
TKAZ said:
First Neil I don't feel we are in competition at all, I don't feel I affect your business just as much you are not effecting mine. I apologize for getting involved, I was actually trying to stay neutral and not place blame to anyone. I was (obviously no effect) defending you even though it may have seemed to read otherwise. Also - what I wrote was "if in fact you feel he was", I wasn't stating you where I was just stating if HE felt you where.

Once again, I apologize for getting involved it wasn't my intention at all to speak bad of you or anyone.

Be well my friend.

-Tim
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My apologies to you as well. Bad form on my part.

Regards Neil
 
To the OP:

You made so many errors in your "legal" analysis, that I could sit here all night correcting you. But it's not worth my time. I suggest that you review Article 2 of the UCC.

This is the problem with many law students -- they do not know what they do not know, they know not of what they speak, and they think that they know everything. A dangerous combination, to be certain. And I do know because I used to be one (a law student, that is).

So good luck on the Bar Exam -- you'll need it. And even better luck with your Character & Fitness review -- it doesn't sound like you have the professional demeanor to act as an officer of the court. Furthermore, I may forward this post to the Oklahoma Bar Association for their edification. They do consider behavior like this when making admission decisions. But, of course, you knew that because you know everything.

P.S. There's always Med School.
 
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