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Bark River, again

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ForgedMaple

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In short, I have recently purchased a Bark River Mini-Canadian in 20CV steel, and through some simple tests and observations, have now come to the conclusion that the knife is made of A2 steel. Not only that, but there are some indications the problem may extend to an entire run of knives.

All the details, as well as my transition from happy to frustrated customer, can be found here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1461700-Normal-20CV-behavior


So what is it? 100% normal for 20CV? Honest human mistake? Lousy QC? Outright fraud? You decide.
 
^he did. linked thread tells the story. i just read it. interesting. if i were the op id send it to brk, but his call.
 
I did, it's all in the original thread.

I'll come forward and admit I didn't push the issue much. My time is limited right now, I don't live in the USA, etc. I was so dismayed by the attitude I received, saying this is all normal, that I felt I'd rather lose $200 and make this issue public than go through the hoops of getting a proper knife from BRKT.

When I said I could afford to form my own opinion about the brand, I was expecting at worse some edge rolling or sub-par F&F. What happened instead, coupled with Mr Stewart's reputation, has convinced me Bark River is a terrible company and I want nothing to do with such people. I regret I couldn't heed the warnings.
 
Been watching that thread for the past week. It's turned out pretty much exactly how I expected, sadly. :thumbdn: 20CV should not, I repeat, NOT patina like that!!! :mad: Especially in less than 10 minutes... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'm not totally convinced that the steel "mistake", as we'll call it, wasn't on purpose. :eek: Yeah. What's the price premium of 20CV over A2? :rolleyes: Multiplied by how many blades? I bet you don't even get a "whoops, our bad." from Mr. Stewart and company. :thumbdn::thumbdn::thumbdn:

Sorry for your loss! :( Welcome to BladeForums, and may your future purchases have a better outcome. Like gettting the blade steel you actually paid for... :foot:
 
I have little doubt that your knife is 3V or A2. 20CV does not tarnish like that, even CPM-M4 does not tarnish that easily. Mike Stewart knows this is true, but still tried to pass it off as "normal" for 20CV. No apology, no admission that there could possibly be an error. Typical behavior on his part. I work in an analytical lab, and if it were my knife I would take a small piece of the blade and have it analyzed for all of the alloying elements - Cr, V, Mo, W - to get the real proof. A tenth of a gram or less is all I would need.

It's amazing that BR still gets so much fan support when things like this happen regularly. I had my own experience dealing with Mike Stewart to fix a big blunder that they made, and he was nothing but childish and angry the whole time, acting as if I was the one who made the mistake. My problem also involved a subcontractor who did scrimshaw work for Mike Stewart, and that subcontractor told me that he no longer deals with Mike because he got cheated out of money. At that time I had five BR knives, and I have sold off all but one. I will never buy another one from BR. Some of their knives do perform as advertised (like the one I still have) but the owner's attitude keeps me away.
 
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I have a rare Bark River made of their proprietary "mystery metal". I'm holding on to it until the market for unidentifiable stainless steel blades spikes and I can cash in.
 
I wonder if that knife is even A2. I would not be in the least bit surprised to find out it was 1095...

Rupestris said:
I have a rare Bark River made of their proprietary "mystery metal". I'm holding on to it until the market for unidentifiable stainless steel blades spikes and I can cash in.
Click to expand...

Sure it's even stainless??? :foot:
 
lambertiana said:
I have little doubt that your knife is 3V or A2. 20CV does not tarnish like that, even CPM-M4 does not tarnish that easily. Mike Stewart knows this is true, but still tried to pass it off as "normal" for 20CV. No apology, no admission that there could possibly be an error. Typical behavior on his part. I work in an analytical lab, and if it were my knife I would take a small piece of the blade and have it analyzed for all of the alloying elements - Cr, V, Mo, W - to get the real proof. A tenth of a gram or less is all I would need.

It's amazing that BR still gets so much fan support when things like this happen regularly. I had my own experience dealing with Mike Stewart to fix a big blunder that they made, and he was nothing but childish and angry the whole time, acting as if I was the one who made the mistake. My problem also involved a subcontractor who did scrimshaw work for Mike Stewart, and that subcontractor told me that he no longer deals with Mike because he got cheated out of money. At that time I had five BR knives, and I have sold off all but one. I will never buy another one from BR. Some of their knives do perform as advertised (like the one I still have) but the owner's attitude keeps me away.
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If 3V is anywhere close to 4V in stain resistance, then I would venture to say there's very little chance my knife is 3V. 4V is very hard to force a patina on, and tends to pit before staining to such a dark hue.

I'm actually thinking I should snap the blade in half and send you a piece of the steel. I recently read a blog post about someone analyzing a sample of trinitite for authenticity, and found it very entertaining. I'd love to see what information you could gather from this sample. I'd keep the other half and proceed to throw it in a nearby volcano that likes to erupt regularly. The next time it blows up and disrupt one of my flights, I'd find solace in knowing the fruit of Mr Stewart's labor has been vaporized into oblivion.

SpyderPhreak said:
I wonder if that knife is even A2. I would not be in the least bit surprised to find out it was 1095...
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From my experience, 1095 would have acquired a more obvious patina from the apples alone.
 
Is KSF aware of this thread? I am a little shocked they did not handle this issue. They clearly sold a knife that is not what it says it is. That is on them. They need to deal with BRKT. Normally they provide great CS. This is disappointing to say the least. Aren't they concerned they are selling things that aren't what they say?

Edit: sent them a PM with a link to this thread.
 
Sent Mike a heads up on FB, he doesn't hang out at the forums that I used to see him on anymore..
 
I would do the following:

1. Call up Bark River again and try to speak to whoever is the highest up on the chain and is available. Explain to them that you have very strong reasons to believe that there's been a steel mixup. Ask for their permission to send the knife in for testing AND replacement with a similarly valued knife.

2. Send Bark River the knife with a letter explaining everything (and urging them to test the steel), and make sure to CC Knives Ship Free with a copy of the letter.

Good luck! With things like this it can be difficult to be persistent and level headed (especially when you get a lukewarm response at first), but I've found that it's essential to getting to the finish line—and you've done a good job of it so far.
 
Brancron, I appreciate the suggestion, but as I've stated before, I have no desire to contact Mr Stewart, at all. I've been through this before. I've had a really rough period in my life where one of the key supplier for my business turned out to be a fraud. Textbook Cluster B.

It's funny because if you're a principled person, at first you'll tell yourself there's no way someone with such a reputation would risk it all by defrauding you for something so small, and you maintain the partnership for a while. Then at some point you realize they're simply not rational beings. I don't even know if it's about the money or just the thrill they get out of screwing people over. There's no reasoning with them. I'm not going down that path ever again.

Besides, I've got all the money I need in this life. I'd rather use the opportunity to warn the less fortunate who can't afford to lose 200 bucks, than to work out some back-room deal with a crook to keep this hidden from sight.
 
Eric@DLT said:
I know you didn't buy it from us but if you aren't getting a response let me know and I'll see what I can do.
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DLT Trading is a great dealer! Nice gesture, Eric.

OP: On more than one occasion, I've almost purchased a Bark River knife. Luckily, I've been able to resist the urge, knowing how many people are not only unhappy with the fit and finish of the knives themselves, but also their customer service. Not to mention the clearly documented issues with Mike Stewart himself. I'd like to say this is likely an innocent steel mix-up, but I would not be surprised to find out that it was intentional. I'd also be curious to know how many times this has happened in the past with other steels on other knives and they have gotten away with it.

Hoping Derrick at KSF chimes in at some point and is willing to go to bat for you to Bark River. He sold you the product, and it is quite clearly not made out of the material they advertise on their website. They should be doing more for you at this point.
 
Reading past reports on Mike and Bark River Knives have an impact. I've tried Bark River Knives and had the edge rolls and familiar issues. I just sold them and moved on. Reports like this are another issue. I honestly worried a bit about a BF dealer who moved locations it seems to partner more with Bark River in the home state. This dealer already charges more but to get in bed with Mike just seemed risky. Bark River knives are extremely over priced and I for one won't buy another
 
After I saw the way Mike Stewart treated a kid on a Facebook knife group I was done with him and his knives..
 
KSF has been PM'd about this thread by both Craytab and your's truly. I'm sure they'll be along at some point to address the issues. Derrick is a straight shooter.
 
Eric@DLT said:
I know you didn't buy it from us but if you aren't getting a response let me know and I'll see what I can do.
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Eric, while I feel very humbled by your offer, it wouldn't feel right to get you involved in this mess. I will remember this next time I'm shopping around for a knife, though.

NYOutdoors said:
DLT Trading is a great dealer! Nice gesture, Eric.

OP: On more than one occasion, I've almost purchased a Bark River knife. Luckily, I've been able to resist the urge, knowing how many people are not only unhappy with the fit and finish of the knives themselves, but also their customer service. Not to mention the clearly documented issues with Mike Stewart himself. I'd like to say this is likely an innocent steel mix-up, but I would not be surprised to find out that it was intentional. I'd also be curious to know how many times this has happened in the past with other steels on other knives and they have gotten away with it.
Click to expand...

The funny thing is, had the knife been made of 440C, I'd never have known. My EDC use is simply too gentle for me to appreciate the difference between most cutlery steels. Who knows, I might even have recommended a Bark River down the line. The only reason I got this knife in 20CV was because I wanted it to be stainless, not because I cared about its super steel qualities.

KBA said:
Reading past reports on Mike and Bark River Knives have an impact. I've tried Bark River Knives and had the edge rolls and familiar issues. I just sold them and moved on. Reports like this are another issue. I honestly worried a bit about a BF dealer who moved locations it seems to partner more with Bark River in the home state. This dealer already charges more but to get in bed with Mike just seemed risky. Bark River knives are extremely over priced and I for one won't buy another
Click to expand...

The report that ultimately convinced me was when I read Jerry Fisk's experience with Mike Stewart. There are few knifemakers our there I respect more than Mr Fisk. If he has an issue with someone else in the business, you can bet I'll side with him.
 
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