Bark River, again

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This kind of thing (which is NOT unusual) is the reason I have never purchased nor will ever purchase a Bark River knife. :grumpy: I do expect Derrick to chime in; he seems like a straight up guy.
 
katanas said:
This kind of thing (which is NOT unusual) is the reason I have never purchased nor will ever purchase a Bark River knife. :grumpy: I do expect Derrick to chime in; he seems like a straight up guy.
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What do you mean by "not unusual"? Has this sort of thing happened before with BRKT?
 
I have been tempted by a BRKT offering more than once but I have never pulled the trigger. This thread is just another reason ill continue to avoid them.
 
KBA said:
Reading past reports on Mike and Bark River Knives have an impact. I've tried Bark River Knives and had the edge rolls and familiar issues. I just sold them and moved on. Reports like this are another issue. I honestly worried a bit about a BF dealer who moved locations it seems to partner more with Bark River in the home state. This dealer already charges more but to get in bed with Mike just seemed risky. Bark River knives are extremely over priced and I for one won't buy another
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About the rest of your post. Let me tell you, from personal experience, how good people get in bed with the rotten ones.

You're starting out in the business. You're honest, yet naive. You see this big, successful, extremely confident guy. You appreciate his work. You enjoy his product. You approach him and ask timidly... "I'm sorry to bother you, sir. I have this small business and I'd like to sell your products."

That's when the con starts. The big guy, who has a reputation for being picky with his distributors, sees right through you and takes you in. He immediately makes you feel like a million bucks. He shows you around the factory and is extremely open about his work. He gives you insider information. He even lets you handle some of the machines! He says he can help your business, he'll be your mentor, you two will work together and make it big. He starts taking you out for dinner, he's inviting you to cinema. He might even bring you out on a trip! By this point, you're truly impressed, you feel like you've hit jackpot and you bite the hook.

The big guy asks you to invest some serious money. After all, you need to upgrade your business if you're gonna sell his famous products! You think he has great business instinct, you think he'll have your back, and you follow the advice. But in reality, all he wants is for you to get stuck in this situation, to have no way out.

Everything is going well, until one day you start getting problems. The quality isn't consistent. You bring up the issue, and that's when the abuse starts. The big guy blames it on you. He says he's been doing this forever, he has way more experience than you, he wouldn't make such amateur mistakes. But you keep getting problems, and now your own customers are complaining. You have to choose: you either get yelled at, called names, told you can't handle your business, etc., or you suck it up and start taking the punches for him. Odds are you have no choice, because by this point your business is in too deep. In other words, you've been swindled and you can't tell anyone about it, or else you'll face bankruptcy. You've got a family to feed, so you help perpetuate the con.

And that is how genuinely good people get stuck with the horrible ones. It happens all the time, on all levels of business, always the same scenario. You'll know when it happens to somebody close to you, because they'll suddenly go from looking happy and full of hope for their business, to constantly stressed and tired out. It sucks the life right out of you. This is how businesses and lives are ruined.

Sorry if this was long-winded. Hopefully it helps someone.
 
I don't know. Every suggestion to resolve this, Mr. ForgedMaple, has a ready-made excuse of why he can't pursue this issue through proper channels. Seems kind of strange? Is it possible you got the wrong steel? Sure. However, without demonstrable proof, like a Materials Testing Laboratory analysis, you're just barking at the Moon. It's your anecdotal, unqualified opinion at this point. Sorry.

Regardless, it still seems like a simple fix. Return bad knife to KSF, get new knife with proper steel. Problem solved. Or, you could break the knife, return it to BRK and get a new one on their 'Lifetime Warranty'. Problem solved, again.

No matter where I am in the world, if I received a bad product, I'd return it to whom I purchased it from. It's what keeps FedEx and UPS in business, In this instance, "KniveShipFree", is on the hook to make you happy. Not, Bark River Knives, you didn't 'buy it' from them. I've done business with 'KSF' and find their Customer Service outstanding.

This thread has just become one more boring thread of 'haters and bashers' coming out of the woodwork to pile-on Bark River Knives and Mike Stewart. Ho, hum.:barf:

FYI, I have no connection to BRK or KSF, other than being a happy customer. I said that because I'm sure one of the 'haters' would say I'm Mike Stewart in disguise.:D

SJ
 
edited: A little edgy today

I don't hate Mike or Bark River I just don't trust either. I would rather Derrick not be brought down in reputation due to partnering with Bark River was my point.
 
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Scooter - Nowhere has OP suggested that he's looking for a "resolution." He's made it clear that he doesn't care about returning the knife. Rather, he's been wanting Bark River to acknowledge that there is an issue, and to warn folks about their response.
 
Scooter- It looks like he did contact KSF and was told it is a Bark River issue and BR sort of blew him off with his results being typical of that steel

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I was going to buy a knife from bark river, but now I'm not. thank you. thank you a lot!

also see Cliff Stamp's real world data about the way brk does dry sanding causing issues to the heat treat.

apostle P has a YouTube video of what happened in 2009... that may or may not be the truth but it seems like they have more issues than that.

I'm a huge fan of MR. Stuarts kids, they are YouTube stars IMHO. really funny and great personality online.

also other bushcraft videos where they praised the brk knives but when you come to the forums you see so many issues . the videos of praise just don't add up.
 
Yet another reason to not buy anything from Bark River. There is no way that is 20CV with that kind of patina, let alone in 10 minutes. Their response is typical Bark River bs.
 
You've heard the expression "If his lips are movin, he's lyin"? Met said CONcrete individual in the early eighties, and nothing's changed in the interim.
 
being a small business owner myself, sometimes employees aren't trained well or just do what they want until you find out and correct both flaws. is it possible an employee said what they said not really understanding the situation properly? maybe not but just saying people will be people. employees sometimes don't really take their time to understand or care. course sometimes owners do the same thing. if you moved up the chain to a supervisor or the owner, and maybe you already did?, who's job is to care maybe you'll get a different response? maybe not? i don't know but maybe worth the effort? just a thought to consider.......
 
I bought a Hess knife around a year ago from a non BF dealer that was listed as 52100. I decided that it was not for me and sold it later listing it as 52100.

The guy who bought it contacted me fuming to find out it was 1095 and wanted a refund. He had contacted the maker wanting information. I refunded his funds and paid to have the knife shipped back to me.

I then contacted the dealer just to let him know of the listing error and he informed me that the maker made the error prior to shipment and him receiving it. He then offered to refund my funds and pay to have the knife shipped back to him even though it was around 3-4 months after the original sale.

That dealer earned my trust that day.

The Hess Knife did not have a steel identification label or mark. The dealer and I never knew. Bark River labels theirs and in this case mislabeled. IMO this does not release KSF from any responsibility to the buyer. KSF should rectify the issue and then take it up themselves with Bark River for sending them a mislabeled item.
 
And the reason KSF saying your issue is with Bark River is because what you're alegging, that the item is not made with the type of steel you thought you had purchased. With absolutely no proof! I repeat. At this point you accusation is 'anecdotal', a personal opinion. Meaningless.

Btw, I'm glad all of you 'materials engineers' can tell what a knife blade is made of by just looking at it. That's a great ability. We can do away with all the Materials Testing Labs in the country and just let you guys look at it and tell us what we have. ;)

It is possible BRK got a bad run of steel from their source and got mixed-in the production-run? Although, I would think each product run of steel comes with documentation. I know from experience every steel delivery I had came with documented proof of formulation and country of origin.

If, and that's a big 'if', this isn't the steel the as advertised, and you can prove it, then you've got a case. And, maybe Bark River has a case, too. If, I had documented proof the steel I bought was sold to me as a certain grade, and an independent Materials Testing Lab determines it's not, then I'm going to Court.

"Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and they all stink!"

Either nut-up, or shut up.

SJ
 
ScooterJammer said:
And the reason KSF saying your issue is with Bark River is because what you're alegging, that the item is not made with the type of steel you thought you had purchased. With absolutely no proof! I repeat. At this point you accusation is 'anecdotal', a personal opinion. Meaningless.

Btw, I'm glad all of you 'materials engineers' can tell what a knife blade is made of by just looking at it. That's a great ability. We can do away with all the Materials Testing Labs in the country and just let you guys look at it and tell us what we have. ;)

It is possible BRK got a bad run of steel from their source and got mixed-in the production-run? Although, I would think each product run of steel comes with documentation. I know from experience every steel delivery I had came with documented proof of formulation and country of origin.

If, and that's a big 'if', this isn't the steel the as advertised, and you can prove it, then you've got a case. And, maybe Bark River has a case, too. If, I had documented proof the steel I bought was sold to me as a certain grade, and an independent Materials Testing Lab determines it's not, then I'm going to Court.

"Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and they all stink!"

Either nut-up, or shut up.

SJ
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If BRKT's 20cv patinas like that there is an even bigger reason not to buy their product. At this point, it is in their best interest that this be a mistake on their end.

It is not rocket science to be able to tell the difference between carbon steel and stainless. Just because you can't doesn't mean the rest of us can't as well. Or are you saying the 20cv you have experience with acts this way?
 
ScooterJammer said:
And the reason KSF saying your issue is with Bark River is because what you're alegging, that the item is not made with the type of steel you thought you had purchased. With absolutely no proof! I repeat. At this point you accusation is 'anecdotal', a personal opinion. Meaningless.

Btw, I'm glad all of you 'materials engineers' can tell what a knife blade is made of by just looking at it. That's a great ability. We can do away with all the Materials Testing Labs in the country and just let you guys look at it and tell us what we have. ;)

It is possible BRK got a bad run of steel from their source and got mixed-in the production-run? Although, I would think each product run of steel comes with documentation. I know from experience every steel delivery I had came with documented proof of formulation and country of origin.

If, and that's a big 'if', this isn't the steel the as advertised, and you can prove it, then you've got a case. And, maybe Bark River has a case, too. If, I had documented proof the steel I bought was sold to me as a certain grade, and an independent Materials Testing Lab determines it's not, then I'm going to Court.

"Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and they all stink!"

Either nut-up, or shut up.

SJ
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Analysis using reagents is nothing new..it may not determine what a material is, but almost certainly can determine what it is not.
While it's usage may not be definitive, it's a result that may bear further investigation and questioning.
 
ScooterJammer said:
And the reason KSF saying your issue is with Bark River is because what you're alegging, that the item is not made with the type of steel you thought you had purchased. With absolutely no proof! I repeat. At this point you accusation is 'anecdotal', a personal opinion. Meaningless.

Btw, I'm glad all of you 'materials engineers' can tell what a knife blade is made of by just looking at it. That's a great ability. We can do away with all the Materials Testing Labs in the country and just let you guys look at it and tell us what we have. ;)

It is possible BRK got a bad run of steel from their source and got mixed-in the production-run? Although, I would think each product run of steel comes with documentation. I know from experience every steel delivery I had came with documented proof of formulation and country of origin.

If, and that's a big 'if', this isn't the steel the as advertised, and you can prove it, then you've got a case. And, maybe Bark River has a case, too. If, I had documented proof the steel I bought was sold to me as a certain grade, and an independent Materials Testing Lab determines it's not, then I'm going to Court.

"Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and they all stink!"

Either nut-up, or shut up.

SJ
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Maybe not a materials engineer, but you might just call me a "rocket scientist". So yeah, I have a wee bit of materials background. ;) 20CV should NOT patina like that in vinegar in less than 10 minutes. :rolleyes:

ETA - Might want to watch the language. ;) Also, "Opinions are like nipples, everybody has one or two. Some have firm points, others are barely discernible through layers, and some are displayed at every opportunity." :p

craytab said:
If BRKT's 20cv patinas like that there is an even bigger reason not to buy their product. At this point, it is in their best interest that this be a mistake on their end.

It is not rocket science to be able to tell the difference between carbon steel and stainless. Just because you can't doesn't mean the rest of us can't as well. Or are you saying the 20cv you have experience with acts this way?
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Bingo!!!

bhyde said:
Analysis using reagents is nothing new..it may not determine what a material is, but almost certainly can determine what it is not.
While it's usage may not be definitive, it's a result that may bear further investigation and questioning.
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Very well put. The vinegar test determined with nearly 100% certainty that the steel on the knife in question is NOT 20CV!!!
 
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SpyderPhreak said:
Maybe not a materials engineer, but you might just call me a "rocket scientist". So yeah, I have a wee bit of materials background. ;) 20CV should NOT patina like that in vinegar in less than 10 minutes. :rolleyes:



Bingo!!!



Very well put. The vinegar test determined with nearly 100% certainty that the steel on the knife in question is NOT 20CV!!!
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I mean seriously! That not being 20cv is a best case scenario for BRKT and KSF, because.....if that is the 20cv they are getting.....yuck!
 
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