Bark River Knives... Heat Treat, Edge Retention and A2???

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As you can see my friend, there is more going on here then meets the eye.


Folks with personal experience state their honest opinions and respect for the quality of the knives.

Others (mostly the same few poster's), have a personal axe to grind with Mike Stewart himself.


I like the fact that I can beat the heck out of a knife without fear of loosing significant value because I know from personal experience that any knife I break or damage will be repaired or replaced.

The fact that I can send it in to be cleaned, sharpened and re-polished for the fifteen dollar SPA treatment makes beating on it a non-issue when it comes to re-sale value.


It's a win-win situation as far as I can see.




Big Mike

I am not really one to get into the Bark River bashing, but if these are the things you look for in a knife why not first look Swamp Rat? The RMD offers everything the Bravo does without all the baggage that has been brought up in this thread.

Not at all an attack there just a legit question.
 
I remember your thread on KF! Saw it get merged w/ another users thread with the same issue. Then deleted a day or so later.

That is not the only thread to get deleted. I have seen them closed and deleted in hours. Like I said if it is not constant praise over there it gets shut down, they are kinda sensitive.
 
I am not really one to get into the Bark River bashing, but if these are the things you look for in a knife why not first look Swamp Rat? The RMD offers everything the Bravo does without all the baggage that has been brought up in this thread.

Not at all an attack there just a legit question.
Theres really not that much baggage man. It's just a couple people flying off the handle again and again. The posts are inflammatory and becoming offensive and hopefully a mod will decide to step in to calm things down.

The RMD is a great knife, no doubt about it. Definitely my favorite offering from Swamp Rat. And you're right, it's a great alternative to the Bravo if Bark River isnt your thing. Both are tough as nails(the RMD being somewhat more burly). Both have great ergos. Both are nice to look at. Both are (roughly) the same price range. The reason why I prefer the Bravo is cutting ability. The geometry lends it's self better to slicing imho. If I'm gonna be doing a bunch of "normal" knife tasks I'd grab the Bravo. If I had to do a lot more hardcore prying and abusive work I'd grab the RMD for sure. For many people the sheath may be a factor as well. The RMD has none(although finding one is easy), the Bravo comes with a pretty sweet leather one from Sharpshooter. The Bravo has many handle options while the RMD only has a few. Love the RMD though, such wonderful general all-arounder. I have one already but I want to find a user with black coating and tan micarta!
 
If that question is not rhetorical, then my answer is that I cannot think of anyone either. My wording was intended to be less than inflammatory so that the point that I wished to make would not get lost in negativity aimed at BRK.

The question wasn't rhetorical - if there is anyone else that bad or worse, I want to avoid them too! I can't think of anyone who comes close to BR's problematic reputation, in any part of the market.
 
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As you can see my friend, there is more going on here then meets the eye.

Yes: no one would resent being sent back a mangled knife if Mike Stewart wasn't a crook!

Wait... would anyone who wasn't a crook call sending back a mangled knife a "warranty"?

Folks with personal experience state their honest opinions and respect for the quality of the knives.

Except the ones - eg in this thread - who say their BRs have sucked.

I like the fact that I can beat the heck out of a knife without fear of loosing significant value because I know from personal experience that any knife I break or damage will be repaired or replaced.

I have seen you take part on threads on KF where people sent a broken knife to BR, got back a knife ground to a stub, and you told them to call it a custom. (Then good old Mikey removed the thread!) So if you know that YOU are going to be taken care of, given that you know other people are not, one has to wonder if this is because MS appreciates all the shouting down of complaints you do on his behalf...?
 
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..And just forget that BR sends knives out without properly attaching handles to scales, uses inferior handles materials, tells people that warped blades are normal, and may try to wriggle out of warranty on any fault no matter no matter how undeniable! No, LOOK AT THE HANDLES! PURTY!

I had to remove you from my ignore list just to read this comment. :D As you already know we have irreconcilable views on BRKT. Just believe me when I say it I have never come across any of the issues you have mentioned nor do I hear about them as often as you make it seem, therefore, based on my personal experience with the knives, I like BRKT and will continua to buy them regardless of your personal opinion/vendetta. Other members of this forum can decide for themselves whether or not to purchase the BRKT knife.
 
Theres really not that much baggage man. It's just a couple people flying off the handle again and again. The posts are inflammatory and becoming offensive and hopefully a mod will decide to step in to calm things down.

The RMD is a great knife, no doubt about it. Definitely my favorite offering from Swamp Rat. And you're right, it's a great alternative to the Bravo if Bark River isnt your thing. Both are tough as nails

When Noss d-tested the Bravo, the edge blew chunks almost at the start, being batoned into a 2x4. The Busskein knives all survived being driven into concrete! So, no, they are not equally tough - the Bravo was an outright Fail and didn't pas a test that an $20 Mora should have walked.

the Bravo comes with a pretty sweet leather [sheath] from Sharpshooter.

..One of the posters in this thread was hounded out of BR's forum for pointing out the poor quality of this sheath. And you can buy the Bravo sized Rat for, what , $80 less than a Bravo? That pays for a pretty decent sheath.
 
I had to remove you from my ignore list just to read this comment. :D As you already know we have irreconcilable views on BRKT. Just believe me when I say it I have never come across any of the issues you have mentioned nor do I hear about them as often as you make it seem.

...And there is absolutely no chance at all that Mike Stewart is paying or otherwise rewarding people to make falsely positive posts about his products. Because a man who would cheat Ethan Becker and Jerry Fisk, his own employees and dealers, and take his bank for $500,000 would never stoop to such tactics! Why - it wouldn't be ethical!
 
I had to remove you from my ignore list just to read this comment. :D As you already know we have irreconcilable views on BRKT. Just believe me when I say it I have never come across any of the issues you have mentioned nor do I hear about them as often as you make it seem, therefore, based on my personal experience with the knives, I like BRKT and will continua to buy them regardless of your personal opinion/vendetta. Other members of this forum can decide for themselves whether or not to purchase the BRKT knife.

Holy cow! I've been on BF well over a year and never knew there was an Ignore List. Thank you ridnovir!
 
two guys with identical hands can still have vastly different opinions on the feel of different knife handles based on their intended use, the way they grew up around knives, their mindset, hell the WEATHER. To speak so cut and dry about someone other than yourself's opinion on it is a bit rash, imo.

This doesn't mean that the opinions are equally valid: you have missed the point of CG's stating objective criteria.

Sure, you *might* be able to qualify that a certain grip has more retention than another, that doesn't make it better or necessary. You might be able to say a thumbramp causes pain or whatever the hell you are saying, but maybe to others it gives just the right amount of tactile feedback for the work they do? There's a reason guys who race their cars don't like soft "comfy" brake feel, because they want that tactile feedback that a stiffer system can offer you.

But this doesn't have anything to do with CG's main points.

There are guys who could make us all look like kindergartners with their knife skills who like that traditional, round, NO GRIP, puuko style knife. Are you going to tell them it's technically *worse* because it can become slippery and doesn't have a built in guard?

You are using the Imaginary Friend argument, which means nothing- if you had a real puukko expert who was in favour of round handles (for hard use knives) you'd have a point. But you don't, just an imaginary person agreeing with you... which is sort of weird, really, when you think it means something.

Talking about real puukkos as opposed to imaginary people, delicate wood carving puukkos have round handles for dexterity, but heavier use ones are much more elipitical - and as the same people who use puukkos shift to heavier use knives made from modern materials, you have the Mora 2000, Sissipuukko, and Hukari, which do exactly what CG was talking about! If you had listened to CG, you'd heard him say that the Bravo's handle is poor because it is round **and it is supposed to be for hard hard use**. A wood carving puukko with a 65mm blade, always used with dry hands, can afford a handle that will used with a lot of force, but a 5mm thick supposedly hard use knife reasonably can't.

Again, this is a thing with BR customers - they tend to be people who buy knives as toys and who think that carving a feather stick in their yard is hard use. Issues like making a knife safe to use with gloved hands or while slick with sweat and mud are... alien to them. Why would you take a knife where it will get it dirty???
 
...And there is absolutely no chance at all that Mike Stewart is paying or otherwise rewarding people to make falsely positive posts about his products. Because a man who would cheat Ethan Becker and Jerry Fisk, his own employees and dealers, and take his bank for $500,000 would never stoop to such tactics! Why - it wouldn't be ethical!

Bro, I mean really!? Stop implying that I am on BRKT payroll. I try my best not engage with you on personal level but you make it hard. For the record I am not associated with BRKT in any way and they sure as hell do not pay me. Moreover, I am not a "fan-boy" either and did rise issue when appropriate (for example during the "crappy" sheath episode last year, BTW BRKT listened and have changed the faulty sheath and contracted new sheath maker (within short period of time) - tell me how many companies do you know that will so that?).
 
...And there is absolutely no chance at all that Mike Stewart is paying or otherwise rewarding people to make falsely positive posts about his products.

Well dang, here I've been saying good things about them and I haven't got paid yet. :(

I guess my cheque must have got lost in the mail...
 
Bro, I mean really!? Stop implying that I am on BRKT payroll. I try my best not engage with you on personal level but you make it hard. For the record I am not associated with BRKT in any way and they sure as hell do not pay me. Moreover, I am not a "fan-boy" either and did rise issue when appropriate (for example during the "crappy" sheath episode last year, BTW BRKT listened and have changed the faulty sheath and contracted new sheath maker (within short period of time) - tell me how many companies do you know that will so that?).

Have they got a new sheathmaker for all their sheathes then? It's an eon since I visited their forum....
 
The only time I used the waranty was when I dropped one of their burl handle knives from my knife block magnet almost from celing height and cracked the handle on my tile floor. They replaced the scales for me even after I admited the damage was my fault.

And no, I am not on the payroll.
 
I tend to trust personal experience over the parroted comments that certain folks with an agenda tend to add to these threads.

Big Mike

Sigh...it always comes to this when discussions about BR come up. If you don't like the message, just malign the messengers. OK, I will tell you what happened to ME, not hearsay that I am parroting.

I had a Mini-Canadian with a scrimshaw handle. The very first time I used it, to strip the bark off a small stick, the edge rolled horribly, it looked like crumpled aluminum foil. I promptly sent it back to BR for warranty service. It came back with a decent edge...but the scrimshaw was GONE. So, back it went. MS said that he would send it to the scrimshander to have it redone. I waited and waited. After a few months, I PMd MS to check on the progress...no response. I waited a few weeks, and PMd him again...no response. After the third time a few weeks later (and again no response) I posted a thread on another forum asking what I should do (without naming names or telling what brand). Some fans there quickly figured out what I was talking about and I became the subject of a lot of abuse from the fans for publicly airing dirty laundry. Well, what was I supposed to do when MS was not responding to communication?

After it became public knowledge, MS suddenly found the time to respond, in a childish and accusatory manner. He also accused me of abusing the knife, even though I had only used it to strip the bark off one single stick. Let's just say that the exchanges that I had through PMs after that with MS made it very clear that he is very unprofessional to someone who is not immediately satisfied and doesn't bow before him.

He then told me that he could no longer contact the scrimshander because of a falling out (imagine that). I contacted him directly, and he told me that MS had sent him the knife with no explanation, so he thought it represented a partial payment for work that he had done and for which MS had stiffed him. So he had been using it as his personal knife. When I told MS this, he just sent me a replacement with a burl handle.

It's too bad for experiences like this. I have had very good luck with my North Star, and my son has done well with his Bravo 1. But after this experience I'm not going to be knocking on BR's door any time soon. And I don't know if PMs on that forum have a time out feature after which they disappear, but those PMs that I exchanged with MS disappeared after not very long.
 
Sigh...it always comes to this when discussions about BR come up. If you don't like the message, just malign the messengers. OK, I will tell you what happened to ME, not hearsay that I am parroting.
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It's too bad for experiences like this. I have had very good luck with my North Star, and my son has done well with his Bravo 1. But after this experience I'm not going to be knocking on BR's door any time soon. And I don't know if PMs on that forum have a time out feature after which they disappear, but those PMs that I exchanged with MS disappeared after not very long.

I'm pretty sure Big Mike isn't referring to people like You, who has personal experience of what You say!

I for one have the deepest respect for Your story and it is easy to understand if You avoid the brand.
I would too, if I had Your experience wich I don't, but that's another story!


Regards
Mikael
 
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I'm pretty sure Big Mike isn't referring to people like You, who has personal experience of what You say!

Then you obviously haven't browsed the BR section at Knife Forums. Although you have to be quick - the usual pattern is that anyone who complains of a fault in a BR gets beaten up for several days and then the thread gets deleted.
 
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