Batoning with a folder poll

[Cobalt]

By the way, I had to answer 3 since I do still have some folding knives -- don't carry them any more, but I still have some. Of course the whole idea of trying to decide a factual question by poll would be ridiculous, but that's not really what you're trying to do here, is it....

I am not sure what I am trying to do here. Honestly, I have never considered folders to be hard use knives even though there are folders that are very tough. However, I don't see how you could do this continually and expect a folder to live long.

I will say this much, if the knifemakers and most users in here feel it is ok and doable and they cover such use, then I guess it is ok. I have never used an expensive folder for this. Out of about 5 knives that I have done this with over the last 14 years, only one is still around. But if everyone in here says that it is doable and I am in the minority and that is fine.

Also, as for being in between 1 and 2. Really, you either do think it's ok or you don't. I am not talking about emergencies or situations where you have no choice. I am talking about doing as std practice or not.

it is also FOLDING knives we are talking about here. I agree that fixed blades can be used to baton. This is not the question at hand.

 

[shipwreck]

There are factors that you may not take into account, here are a couple, the elevation of the handle when you baton, did you forget your technique because you were at an odd angle to the wood? the way you make the cut ...cross grain? the temperature. The heat treating of the blade.

Carry a hatchet. If you dont have one, as another poster suggested think about carrying a large swiss army knife with a saw. There is a reason why they are so popular in the survival forum, the saw on the larger swiss army knives can accomplish alot, after you have made the initial cut with the saw as far as you can go, you can then remove the saw, fold it up and put in your pocket and then hit the partialy sawed limb with a cudgel or rock of some kind to effect a break.

 

[shipwreck]

cobalt said fixed blades can be used with batoning. So I feel I have to chime in again. You can break a fixed blade, including the legendary Moras while batoning! If you break your knife blade, things get alot tougher for you in the woods. Batoning will break fixed blades either by bad luck or the factors I mentioned above.

 

[Cobalt]

There are factors that you may not take into account, here are a couple, the elevation of the handle when you baton, did you forget your technique because you were at an odd angle to the wood? the way you make the cut ...cross grain? the temperature. The heat treating of the blade.
.

good points. However, you cannot account for continued vibration from continued baton impacts loosening the pivot after a short time even if there is no direct stress on the pivot.

 

[shipwreck]

Cobalt, I can see here that people on this thread are primarily worried about breaking the locking mechanism. I think that is the point that Cougar raised coming into play here. The lack of experience in actually doing batoning. I want people to know that above and beyond the locking mechanism, batoning can and will break the blade itself

That is why it is a risky thing to do, be it a fixed blade or a folder.

 

[Cobalt]

cobalt said fixed blades can be used with batoning. So I feel I have to chime in again. You can break a fixed blade, including the legendary Moras while batoning! If you break your knife blade, things get alot tougher for you in the woods. Batoning will break fixed blades either by bad luck or the factors I mentioned above.

I have batoned the same fixed blade knife many times a year for the last 9 years and it is still around and I do not give a crap about technique. Not only that, but I have chopped tons of wood with it and have used it as a throwing knife for all these years as well. It is still kicking and it can slice bread and tomatos quite thin although not as thin as a mora would I am sure.

A HARD USE FIXED BLADE CAN BE BATONED WITH PERIOD

but once again we digress don't we

 

[shipwreck]

Its a Busse.

 

[Cobalt]

what difference does it make. I am sure a fehrman in 3v could do it along with many hard use custom blades. It isn't just one knife that can do it.

However, FOLDING KNIVES (yes, the subject at hand) have mocing parts and vibration does cause damage. Shock imparted also causes damage. However, again, if others say it can be done continuously with no damage, then I will have seen the light.

 

[hardheart]

I think any folder with a 5/16" blade can be batoned

 

[nitestocker]

i myself ask why would you baton with a folder when a fixed is beter id much rather use a mora fixed or my becker than my ritter or my skirmish i would not use a folder for batoning in a survival situation i would not even consider it becouse if thats your only knife you would be stupid if it broke. were would you be ? ive never needed to baton with a folder

 

[HoB]

batoning can and will break the blade itself

Uuuhhhh, no it won't..... most certainly not the blade itself. In a poorly executed fixed blade the tang may break. Maybe you should take a look at Noss's videos, batoning a knife through concrete with a sledgehammer. But this post does illustrate, just what uneducated ideas people have about batoning.

 

[stabman]

Depends on how thick the piece of wood being batoned is, and how tough the blade is. If it's a stout blade, and a reasonable sized stick, and you're not a batoning idiot, then it's okay.

 

[shipwreck]

Uuuhhhh, no it won't..... most certainly not the blade itself. In a poorly executed fixed blade the tang may break. Maybe you should take a look at Noss's videos, batoning a knife through concrete with a sledgehammer. But this post does illustrate, just what uneducated ideas people have about batoning.

Hey Hob never claimed to be educated, but I do have experience and have seen knives break from batoning. I cant prove to you what my eyes have seen, so I got a link below that adresses the point. Now its a little long but I figure an educated man like you , probably used to writing doctoral disertations and the like, can get through it.


http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/batoning.pdf

 

[HoB]

Educated about batoning....not in a scholary sense. There are a whole lot more educated people on the Wilderness subforum than I am and they will tell you the same thing. I bet there are a lot of Ph.D.s out there that have never held either a baton nor a knife let alone ever put them together .

And I already know the article, AFAIK only two Barkies with hidden tang have broken (both at the tang as I said and not at the blade) period. And one was broken on purpose. Again AFAIK there as never been a broken full tang Barkie, but you can ask Mike Steward for confirmation. I have have clobbered the living daylight out of my own Rogue, that is of course using a wooden baton, not a hammer. See here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433115&highlight=Rogue
All three blades shown in the first picture have been batoned to hearts content without any ill effect (well the handle slabs fell off the RD9, now they are epoxied and they don't move). There are plenty of examples of Moras being batoned without problems. And the same person, who wrote that article, has batoned an Aurora point first. I will admit that that is a technique that make even me cringe, even though it is widely accepted in the wilderness crowd.

I don't know which fixed blades you have broken in the blade while batoning, but that is so unusual that you have to name make and model and describe how and when it broke.

As and aside, ALL Barkies (both hidden as well as full tang, both 12C27 and A2 versions) are endorsed for batoning by BRKT. It is only common sense to think about how to best pound a hidden tang fixed blade. Just go on the Outdoorsmagazin forum. Batoning with a fixed blade is a non-issue. It is done, end of story, some like it, other prefer to use other methods, but the knife is not part of that discussion and BRKT caters to a large part to that crowd.

Sorry for the long detour , back to folders now.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

i myself ask why would you baton with a folder when a fixed is beter id much rather use a mora fixed or my becker than my ritter or my skirmish i would not use a folder for batoning in a survival situation i would not even consider it becouse if thats your only knife you would be stupid if it broke. were would you be ? ive never needed to baton with a folder

Or you could ask why baton at all, why not use a proper chopping tool?
I'd rather use a hatchet or a kukri.

But back to the original question, No, as a standard practice I would not baton with a folder.


Or a fixed blade.

 

[Cougar Allen]

See, this is the kind of nonsense that always comes up whenever batoning is mentioned.... There are vast numbers of people who believe batoning with a fixed blade is unconscionable knife abuse, and it does no good to tell them batoning is less stress on a knife than chopping because they also believe chopping is unconscionable knife abuse (and so is prying, and hammering, and what do they imagine 1/4" thick knives are for? No one can fathom the mind of an idiot....)

Those people are not going to answer 3 because they think they know everything. A poll can tell you something about the prevalence of ignorance in the General Knife Discussion Forum, maybe, but nothing about facts....

 

[Cpl Punishment]

what do they imagine 1/4" thick knives are for? No one can fathom the mind of an idiot.

I suppose the idiots think 1/4" thick knives are for when the intellectual elite don't know when to bring a hatchet. . .

 

[hardheart]

or a 1/2" thick HI khukri

 

[Cobalt]

See, this is the kind of nonsense that always comes up whenever batoning is mentioned.... There are vast numbers of people who believe batoning with a fixed blade is unconscionable knife abuse, and it does no good to tell them batoning is less stress on a knife than chopping because they also believe chopping is unconscionable knife abuse (and so is prying, and hammering, and what do they imagine 1/4" thick knives are for? No one can fathom the mind of an idiot....)

Those people are not going to answer 3 because they think they know everything. A poll can tell you something about the prevalence of ignorance in the General Knife Discussion Forum, maybe, but nothing about facts....

what you say would be true if we were talking about fixed blades, but we are not and if everyone reads clearly, this poll is about folders. But I agree with your point as most do believe what you said about fixed blades.

 

[Confederate]

I bet a whole lot of people who should answer 3 are going to answer 2.

Nope. I've never done it, nor would I do it except in an emergency. And especially with linerlocks. In fact, I'd say if I were going to do it at all, I'd prefer the Cold Steel Voyager w/5-inch blade.