Batoning with a folder poll

[Cougar Allen]

what you say would be true if we were talking about fixed blades, but we are not and if everyone reads clearly, this poll is about folders. But I agree with your point as most do believe what you said about fixed blades.

Oh, if everyone reads clearly ... if heck freezes over ... if monkeys come flying out of my imagination into the real world ... if the Red Sox win the Series ... wait, the Red Sox did win the Series ... well, maybe anything can happen then. Maybe idiots can read clearly. Watch out for flying monkees....

 

[hardheart]

if there are people who think batoning with fixed blades is abuse, I hope they didn't vote in this poll

 

[noss4]

I voted I don't know because I have never batoned a folder. I more then likely would not baton with a folder anyways since I alway carry a fixed blade or machete in the field.

However on a HARD USE FOLDER I paid 400 bucks for that has a 1/4" thick blade and heavy constructed handles I would expect it to be able to stand up to batoning wood without damage. If not then why even buy a heavy Hard use folder to begin with if all I'm going to do is use it like any other lightweight folder
that I would just use for cutting. If it is sold as a hard use folder then I want my moneys worth.

I don't expect any folder hard use or not to withstand the same punishment a fixed blade can endure.

 

[Cobalt]

Oh, if everyone reads clearly ... if heck freezes over ... if monkeys come flying out of my imagination into the real world ... if the Red Sox win the Series ... wait, the Red Sox did win the Series ... well, maybe anything can happen then. Maybe idiots can read clearly. Watch out for flying monkees....

Well, with how many times I repeated myself if they didn't read clearly then they truly are idiots. However, a pole like this goes long enough the overall average opinion of the entire community will show. I guess we'll see.

Well, maybe I'll go take that nice Mayo Folder and batton it for a bit

 

[Cobalt]

I voted I don't know because I have never batoned a folder. I more then likely would not baton with a folder anyways since I alway carry a fixed blade or machete in the field. .

Cobalt= +2 pts, Cougar= 0

and since cliff is banned the one point you would have gotten from his opinion isn't here

 

[kjbenner]

Nope. I've never done it, nor would I do it except in an emergency. And especially with linerlocks. In fact, I'd say if I were going to do it at all, I'd prefer the Cold Steel Voyager w/5-inch blade.

Why not with linerlocks? I've never batoned a linerlock, so I can't claim any real experience with that, but it seems to me the stresses would be on the stop pin and pivot, not the liner.

 

[hardheart]

there's a link in the first post of this thread, in it is a description of what happened to a liner lock when it was used to chop and baton.

 

[HoB]

Why not with linerlocks? I've never batoned a linerlock, so I can't claim any real experience with that, but it seems to me the stresses would be on the stop pin and pivot, not the liner.

If you baton a folder at the tip, all the stress is on the lock. A liner and framelock will develop play very quickly because it is easy to compress the lock face. Lockback or axis locks far much better, however, in general it is much better to baton a folder unlocked or on the pivot so that pivot and stop pin bear the load.

Sidenote: There are discussions in regular intervals on the wilderness forum and the forum of the Outdoorsmagazin whether to baton or not, but the discussion always revolves around whether it is efficient and whether there are better methods of getting to dry firewood. This is as it should be and everybody has their own opinion on that. But the discussion never revolves around whether it is bad for a knife (again, a fixed blade is usually assumed).

 

[Cobalt]

If you baton a folder at the tip, all the stress is on the lock. A liner and framelock will develop play very quickly because it is easy to compress the lock face. Lockback or axis locks far much better, however, in general it is much better to baton a folder unlocked or on the pivot so that pivot and stop pin bear the load.

Sidenote: There are discussions in regular intervals on the wilderness forum and the forum of the Outdoorsmagazin whether to baton or not, but the discussion always revolves around whether it is efficient and whether there are better methods of getting to dry firewood. This is as it should be and everybody has their own opinion on that. But the discussion never revolves around whether it is bad for a knife (again, a fixed blade is usually assumed).

True, the three liner locks that I used for batoning, I damaged the liner in one and I in the other I damaged the detent that keeps the blade from opening. Obviously bad technique on my part. The third was undamaged. I still have the last two. The sole survivor is the CRKT Crawford Casper large folder with the heavy metal style handle and locking liner. The other with the damaged detent/liner is a Kershaw Ti. Very nice knife. Too bad it damaged. My fault. The one that actually broke was a Gerber something or other in ats-34. I bought several of these cuz they were being blown out years ago. One rusted beyond repair in an ocean outing of mine.

The other folders I used, were non locking blades and fell apart in short order. They were spanish made muellas or something like that. They looked pretty good, but they were not.

So my experiences have not been good. Of course I have never used a strider or manix/chinook for batoning, and both may have held up better.

 

[HoB]

Sorry to hear about the damaged knifes, especially the Kershaw Ti. Maybe you could sent it to STR to take a look? I know he has repaired or refurbished some dented lockfaces. Don't know if he had to replace the scale/liner though.

 

[roughedges]

Oh, if everyone reads clearly ... if heck freezes over ... if monkeys come flying out of my imagination into the real world ... if the Red Sox win the Series ... wait, the Red Sox did win the Series ... well, maybe anything can happen then. Maybe idiots can read clearly. Watch out for flying monkees....

I read this thread clearly and I gotta say that I really don't know what any of you fellas are talking about! I just checked and none of my folders has a poll... not a one!


Go Red Sox!

 

[spyder10]

I just tried to baton a piece of seasoned firewood with some POS Shrade folder and it worked but FUBAR'ed the knife.

 

[Stubai]

Yes, in a pinch you could take a chance and smack the back of the blade. Folders are, for the most part, not able to take such pressures. The pin would be the weakest point although some folders have been redesigned with more powerful lockups and thicker pivot pins. Folders are less study as a rule than even the most basic fixed knife, yet they are exceedingly comfortable and practical as well as more popular with the public. In general, I would consider hitting the back of any folder, for any reason, an act of egregious frivolity.

I once met a fellow who had used a Kershaw folding field for many years. He hit the back of the blade many times with a mallet and claimed to have scant damage to the blade. Then there are others who have broken their knives in an exercise that would have been better left to a robust fixed bladed knife. I don't see any point in this type of abuse (since better tools are available) unless it is in an emergency.

 

[Cobalt]

I was searching for something and found this thread:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351118&highlight=ayres

 

[allenC]

Here's my take on the matter....

Batoning with any knife, especially a folder, is not a very smart thing to do.
The problem is this: your knife might survive the batoning once, twice, even a hundred times....heck maybe even a thousand times.
But all it takes is one wrong hit, one very dense knot in the wood, or one slight twist, and then your knife is ruined.
This might not be such a big deal in your back yard, but in a survival situation it could be very costly indeed.
Not to mention the that I have never seen any situation where batoning was necessary for survival.

 

[Confederate]

There are vast numbers of people who believe batoning with a fixed blade is unconscionable knife abuse, and it does no good to tell them.... No one can fathom the mind of an idiot....) Those people are not going to answer 3 because they think they know everything.

C'mon, Couger, don't get your fur all balled up into a knot. It's not because knives aren't up to the task; it's because many outdoorsmen carry other tools to split wood.

Also, as you point out yourself, there are many different types of knives, and some are more up to batoning than others. When I was a Scout, I used hatchets and axes to split wood. If all I had was a sturdy knife to use as a wedge, I'd use it. But it's been known to take quite a toll on some folders.

.

 

[Cobalt]

Sorry to hear about the damaged knifes, especially the Kershaw Ti. Maybe you could sent it to STR to take a look? I know he has repaired or refurbished some dented lockfaces. Don't know if he had to replace the scale/liner though.

It's a nice knife actually. IMO one of the best they did. It holds an edge for quite some time. The ats34 did great overall.

 

[Confederate]

In general, I would consider hitting the back of any folder, for any reason, an act of egregious frivolity. ... I don't see any point in this type of abuse (since better tools are available) unless it is in an emergency.

I reckon there're a bunch of us "idiots" floating around the forum then, since I and most others agree.

In older days, folks had more respect for their tools. Many of our grandfathers and great grandfathers couldn't just reach into a drawer full of knives and just grab a new one when they lost or did something foolish with the ones they had. Nor did they have new EDCs every month or so. If they had one, they generally kept it for years and took very good care of them.

My own grandfather had a little shop out behind his house, and even as a child I was impressed with how old, worn and how such good of shape they were in.

It's one thing to test knives for fun; it's another to purposely abuse them. Fortunately, we live in a time where we don't have to properly care for our tools. We can just say, "Ooops," and go get another.

.

 

[zenheretic]

Not to mention the that I have never seen any situation where batoning was necessary for survival.

I couldn't vote, choice number 4 is the closest to my opinion but I have many folders so I just can't vote four.

I grew up in the mountains of Montana and spent many a night around a campfire in the wilderness...the real wilderness not your outside of the city limits wilderness. Never had a need to baton, although we did need our knives to clean some fish and birds, when the meat ran low. I have to admit though, we never had to build a cabin Lewis & Clark style to weather out the winter before returning to civilization...

 

[fishface5]

Now wait a minute, you don't have to have done it to know whether it's a good idea or should be reserved for emergencies if possible. Sure it can be done & I vaguely remember doing it once w/o harming the knife but the fact is that the vibrations from repeatedly impacting the spine have a significant chance of loosening the pivot and/or bolsters or scales. And much more so if you accidentally hit the handle. (Note this is less of an issue w/an Opinel-style ring-lock that doesn't depend on maintaining tight tolerances for its strength).

Can it be done w/o hurting the knife? Sure. Is that the guaranteed outcome? Not at all. If the convenience of using a folder for that purpose outweighs the potential to damage/loosen the locking system, then hey, have at it. But if you know you're going to be in that situation, why not carry a small FB that won't flinch.