Batoning

[AreBeeBee]

...Nowadays a lot of knives are being designed and built to be batonned. I would still have a problem doing that because your still having to beat the hell out of a perfectly good peice of equipment. Even though knives are being built to withstand batonning, they still don't do as well at processing wood as a good camp hatchet.....

Agree totally. I learned to use a pocket knife, a fixed blade knife, a hatchet, and an ax at Scout camp 50 years ago, and bashing a knife through wood with another piece of wood is just wrong.

I know the knife may not come to harm under some conditions. But for me, now and forever, batoning is a salvage technique, a save-your-butt maneuver. You're away from civilization, something went wrong, and you find yourself having to overnight in bad weather (let's say), which means a fire is necessary, and you didn't come prepared for "wood processing," as the quaint term of art goes. So you baton that knife for all you're worth, and good luck to you. I hope you both make it home unharmed.

Next time: bring a hatchet! Or if plans call for moving far and fast over lots of terrain, bring a stove & fuel.

 

[22-rimfire]

We always hear the "Right tool for the right job" mantra but a tool made for one purpose can excel in various others. Im not a huge advocate of battoning but I've done it before with a knife with no issues and prefer a large knife to a hatchet for versatility and find it safer. I baton/split pieces of wood (with a knife) for fire prep with no issues. I've battoned pieces of wood in the creation of fire boards or to whittle spoons.

While I would never take a large knife over an axe I don't understand why some (not that we have seen it in this thread) detest battoning. Is it really that horrible of a thing? (I'm not being sarcastic, just curious).

I think Dave Canterbury summed up batoning in the outdoors nicely in his video. You baton with a KNIFE as a last resort to obtain kindling for a fire. It should not be your first choice. Bigger knives are more suited for the task, but he was using a 5" blade. I feel that if you really "need" a longer blade, you're probably trying to split something more suitably split with a hatchet or axe. But of course, we don't always have every tool with us, so you choose smaller diameter pieces to split with a knife.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m7YFiePmRY&feature=youtu.be

 

[Thomas Linton]

But you do not have to beat the Hell out of a knife to split wood. Did you watch any of the videos linked above?

Some do abuse their knives in the process, to be sure, but not necessary.

I have batoned wood from time to time since 1962 just to be sure I can do it if needed (IF) and the knives I have used are unscathed.

You can, of course, bet the Hell of of an axe, I have re-handled many for those that have abused them.

I have also seen broken saws and broken splitting mauls.

Many knife makers have said that their knives are good for batoning.

And the point is that you may not have an ax (or saw) and still need to split wood. Thinks rarely go to Hell according to your plan - in my world, at least.

 

[stabman]

What?
The debate has not been definitively decided yet?
No rousing chorus of Kumbaya?

Shocking!

 

[bt93]

I don't deny that if you found your self in an unplanned circumstance that you improvise with what you have. A point is made that if you can acquire the proper tool, then acquire it.

 

[Boris74]

Here's my thing. This afternoon my youngest and I made the hike out to our spot on the river, it's just under a mile back there. I'm carrying fishing gear, both of us. We got just over 4" of rain yesterday so the wood in the pile was soaked on the surface, but is still dry on the inside. I always burn a fire to keep the bugs away and maybe cook a meal we catch. So some of Yall are telling me I now need to carry an axe or hatchet to get to the dry interior to start a fire? LOL.

I just put my just under 4" blade Ontario falcon on my belt. You'd be shocked to hear I split plenty of wood to get at the dry insides then sparked up some fat wood. Got the fire hot enough to dry the remaining chosen wood laid next to it and we had a great time. Yeah, it was a short fishing trip hike, nothing spectacular but I'm not going to carry my axe with me. 100% completely unnecessary.

 

[Thomas Linton]

what?
The debate has not been definitively decided yet?
No rousing chorus of kumbaya?

Shocking!

Not so one could tell, but getting closer.

***********************

 

[deskil]

If your a light loader and don't want to carry a hatchet, understood. The fact a hatchet so easily leaves a knife in the dust when it comes to processing wood shows which tool is purpose built for that. It's not unusual to improvise if you don't have the right tool, but if I can have the right tool, I will have that tool.

If you're carrying a pack on your back, it makes more sense to me to have a hatchet, which weighs only a few ounces more, than a 7" - 9" chopper ( a BK7 weighs 13 oz. without a sheath and a Estwing 24A weighs 15 oz.)

 

[jonnyt16]

Whether you baton a knife through wood or split it with an axe, one thing is certain: We are all lucky that we live in such a wonderful country where we can do these things and then have the luxury of discussing such a trivial matter on the internet.

It kinda hit me after I realized how much time I spent on this thread yesterday going back and forth with someone on the subject.

Enjoy your time out in the woods, enjoy your family, be safe, and split wood the way you want to split wood. I'm out.

 

[bt93]

Amen brother. Lets just give up the axe vs knife, slug a bottle of brew and baton with the bottles. That may not accomplish much but could be fun as well as produce some priceless safety videos.

 

[Boris74]

If you're carrying a pack on your back, it makes more sense to me to have a hatchet, which weighs only a few ounces more, than a 7" - 9" chopper ( a BK7 weighs 13 oz. without a sheath and a Estwing 24A weighs 15 oz.)

2 ounces on a 10 mile hike equals 2,500 POUNDS extra your legs will pick up (based on my actual pace count). Now add in mountain trails. Shedding ounces adds up. The only way you'd believe it is if you got out and did it. On the good side, maybe that extra weight will help some of Yall lose them 10-15# extra you need to. It goes much beyond what's best when another tool does just as good.

 

[B34NS]

2 ounces on a 10 mile hike equals 2,500 POUNDS extra your legs will pick up (based on my actual pace count). Now add in mountain trails. Shedding ounces adds up. The only way you'd believe it is if you got out and did it. On the good side, maybe that extra weight will help some of Yall lose them 10-15# extra you need to. It goes much beyond what's best when another tool does just as good.

Great point, Native Americans thrived here for well over 10,000 years without having to baton with a knife, oh yea, they didn't even have knives, but what do they know.

I say this in good fun, hope you know that. I've "battoned" through plenty of animals professionally in butchery. Sometimes the occasional root veg, crab splitting, and lobster cracking in commercial kitchens.

 

[James w]

If you think 2 ounces don't count when backpacking I'd suggest hiking the AT with it and you'll see what I mean

 

[deskil]

2 ounces on a 10 mile hike equals 2,500 POUNDS extra your legs will pick up (based on my actual pace count). Now add in mountain trails. Shedding ounces adds up. The only way you'd believe it is if you got out and did it. On the good side, maybe that extra weight will help some of Yall lose them 10-15# extra you need to. It goes much beyond what's best when another tool does just as good.

Been there, done that. I average about 8-9 miles a day in the mountains, depending on elevation gain, with a starting pack weight of 52 lb. (few water sources, so I have to carry my water for a two night stay). After a sip of water, those two ounces are gone. You may find two ounces a burden, but I don't.

 

[Boris74]

Been there, done that. I average about 8-9 miles a day in the mountains, depending on elevation gain, with a starting pack weight of 52 lb. (few water sources, so I have to carry my water for a two night stay). After a sip of water, those two ounces are gone. You may find two ounces a burden, but I don't.

My last multi nighter I took 27 pounds. In that weight was three knives and my Glock with three extra loaded mags. We could have stayed out at least 3 more days but had other obligations to return to. I tend to fabricate what I need rather than pack it. Like water filter and fire starter, don't even pack matches or a lighter.

If I would have packed as much weight as you do then the 10 miles (on gps, counted in weight carried) I would have burnt just over 200 more calories. Yes I know calories burned by weight for distance. I also know 2mph burns as much as 4mph and going 3mph saves 8 calories per mile over 2 and 4mph. So I watch the GPS and keep the pace at 3mph. It's not about how many calories you pack or consume, it's how you burn them. I doubt I'm burning 80 calories more splitting with a knife over the easier axe or hatchet that I saved by going at the most calorie efficient pace. Not to mention I saved 200 calories in 10 miles packing as light as I can.

That's just how I roll though. Every light weigh hiker knows this stuff.

 

[40oz]

I've been using a 7" blade Old Hickory for camping trips for the last several years. Far lighter and more useful all around than a hatchet and splits anything my 7" folding saw can cut up. It doesn't really matter how far the hike in might be, I'm not packing an axe or hatchet again except for kicks.

You don't need a huge thick blade for batoning - the Old Hickory 7" Butcher is maybe 2mm/a hair over 1/16" and weighs maybe a pound with a sheath. Sure it flexes through tough wood, but I also cut clean sections for splitting and/or work around knots same as I would with an axe or hatchet. Any of the knives mentioned so far would work as well or better, albeit at a price. I bought the Old Hickory to cut down/upgrade but I really like it as-is.

I really enjoy using axes and hatchets and have done so long enough to know when they are necessary and when they are not.

That said, hike your own hike. I always bring a radio and some beer, yet every time I come home thinking I brought too much gear (couple lights, an extra stove) yet again

 

[Wolfeye]

Mora Bushcraft Black, Hultafors (lots of them), and the Bahco Curved Wrecking Knife all seem to be good. I think the Martini Timberjack would probably work well, too. Condor makes a lot of solid knives with very functional designs of various sizes.

 

[40oz]

Agree totally. I learned to use a pocket knife, a fixed blade knife, a hatchet, and an ax at Scout camp 50 years ago, and bashing a knife through wood with another piece of wood is just wrong...

I never had a fixed blade knife at camp, just my Scout knife or my Barlow. When we backpacked in a group we split the heavy items and never carried an axe. Someone may have brought their own hatchet, but making a big fire in camp wasn't a priority so a bow saw was all we needed. You left at home all the gear you didn't use on your last trip, so the more trips you went on the lighter your pack became. We learned how to learn from our experience, not insist on doing things the same way every time.

Now that I am carrying all the gear on my own back without the support of a group, I find I'm making pretty much the same choices for the same reasons. I carry a fixed blade knife and folding saw instead of a bow saw is all.

And just like when I was younger, I get better every trip. I learn and practice new skills every time out. Why would I still do things the way I first did them?

 

[buckfynn]

Can I baton with a knife? Yes!

But also I can peel potatoes with my Viking axe, slice bacon with a cold chisel, and shred carrots with a chainsaw. But none of the are the ideal tool for the job, IMO.

When it comes to making kindling, I still prefer and axe. Maybe I am just old fashioned and it is too hard to teach an old dog new tricks after he has been doing it the same way for over 50+ years.

 

[RUNIT]

2 ounces on a 10 mile hike equals 2,500 POUNDS extra your legs will pick up (based on my actual pace count). Now add in mountain trails. Shedding ounces adds up. The only way you'd believe it is if you got out and did it. On the good side, maybe that extra weight will help some of Yall lose them 10-15# extra you need to. It goes much beyond what's best when another tool does just as good.

My last multi nighter I took 27 pounds. In that weight was three knives and my Glock with three extra loaded mags. We could have stayed out at least 3 more days but had other obligations to return to. I tend to fabricate what I need rather than pack it. Like water filter and fire starter, don't even pack matches or a lighter.

If I would have packed as much weight as you do then the 10 miles (on gps, counted in weight carried) I would have burnt just over 200 more calories. Yes I know calories burned by weight for distance. I also know 2mph burns as much as 4mph and going 3mph saves 8 calories per mile over 2 and 4mph. So I watch the GPS and keep the pace at 3mph. It's not about how many calories you pack or consume, it's how you burn them. I doubt I'm burning 80 calories more splitting with a knife over the easier axe or hatchet that I saved by going at the most calorie efficient pace. Not to mention I saved 200 calories in 10 miles packing as light as I can.

That's just how I roll though. Every light weigh hiker knows this stuff.

This guy talks about 2 ounces and then brings 3 knives, a gun and extra ammo! And still says he is a lightweight hiker!

This Internet is a crazy place.