Batoning

[Boris74]

This guy talks about 2 ounces and then brings 3 knives, a gun and extra ammo! And still says he is a lightweight hiker!

This Internet is a crazy place.

Gun is always on me, everywhere. The three knives fabricate the stuff of dont carry, ends up being less weight. Now break out your calculator and tell me if 52 or 27 pounds is lighter, don't matter what extras I do or do not take.

 

[TinyDog]

In the 5" to 6" range it would be hard to beat Esee5 or Becker BK2. Especially when you mention for batoning. The extra thickness with the saber grind in fantastic. Here is one of my outings with the esee 5. But I truly believe BK2 would offer exactly the same result.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1294906-Let-s-Play?p=14854514#post14854514

 

[RUNIT]

2 ounces on a 10 mile hike equals 2,500 POUNDS extra your legs will pick up (based on my actual pace count). Now add in mountain trails. Shedding ounces adds up. The only way you'd believe it is if you got out and did it. On the good side, maybe that extra weight will help some of Yall lose them 10-15# extra you need to. It goes much beyond what's best when another tool does just as good.

Gun is always on me, everywhere. The three knives fabricate the stuff of dont carry, ends up being less weight. Now break out your calculator and tell me if 52 or 27 pounds is lighter, don't matter what extras I do or do not take.

Fabricate what?.... a hatchet? What can you need that is not included in 27 pounds? Do ya whittle a spoon or use a titanium one with handle cut down to save weight? The gun thing is a separate issue. And I do believe that that 52 ponds included water for a couple days. That is 8.34 lbs a gallon BTW.
Now we are off topic. And I do baton wood sometimes but prefer an axe and I gave up backpacking long ago, just too boring. 3mph who has that kind of time.

 

[Mecha]

This thread has inspired me to fabricate a self-batoning knife.

 

[40oz]

This guy talks about 2 ounces and then brings 3 knives, a gun and extra ammo! And still says he is a lightweight hiker!

This Internet is a crazy place.

You ain't kidding Real life is at least as bad.

Friend and I went to our shack last February. Friend brought two pistols and a bunch of ammo, 'cuz "They don't weigh nothin'!" Left his tripod in the 'wagon for the trek across the ice to the cabin because "it's too heavy and I don't need it." We never fired a shot, but he more than once lamented not having the tripod for the clear moonless night skies packed with stars, or just pictures of the scenery. It was windy and daytime highs were not quite 0F, it's not like we expected to spend a lot of time sitting outside shooting cans in the first place.

Give you one guess which was heavier - two pistols and several boxes of lead ammo or one aluminum tripod? Don't tell me some people aren't funny about firearms.
***
That said, I know where Boris is coming from on the use of a knife instead of a hatchet. I've tried it both ways and he's right that there's no reason to take a hatchet/axe and every reason for the knife beyond wood cutting. I really don't understand why anyone would buy and carry a 4-6 inch long chunk of steel and be reluctant to use it for basic tasks like splitting smalls. It's only an "emergency" if you've zero experience making a warming fire with only your knife.

 

[Yar]

This thread has inspired me to fabricate a self-batoning knife.

 

[Boris74]

Fabricate what?.... a hatchet? What can you need that is not included in 27 pounds? Do ya whittle a spoon or use a titanium one with handle cut down to save weight? The gun thing is a separate issue. And I do believe that that 52 ponds included water for a couple days. That is 8.34 lbs a gallon BTW.
Now we are off topic. And I do baton wood sometimes but prefer an axe and I gave up backpacking long ago, just too boring. 3mph who has that kind of time.

Instead of carrying a hipster stove and liquid fuel, like OMG, so rad bro, like it burns a blue flame....... I make a Swedish cooking fire. Instead of carrying a tarp I make a shelter if I need one. The action of making something is also known as fabrication.

The problem I see with some of you is some of you have never left the pavement. Wouldn't have the slightest clue to know where to look for fat wood or how to make a rig for fishing and find your own bait. You just don't realize skill can easily replace equipment, especially while hiking. Yup, it requires me to carry stuff more geared towards fabrication like more knives, but I end up carrying less. As in 52-27= a lot less weight.

I still love reading all the comments about how I don't know what I'm doing.

 

[40oz]

Instead of carrying a hipster stove and liquid fuel, like OMG, so rad bro, like it burns a blue flame....... I make a Swedish cooking fire. Instead of carrying a tarp I make a shelter if I need one. The action of making something is also known as fabrication.

The problem I see with some of you is some of you have never left the pavement. Wouldn't have the slightest clue to know where to look for fat wood or how to make a rig for fishing and find your own bait. You just don't realize skill can easily replace equipment, especially while hiking. Yup, it requires me to carry stuff more geared towards fabrication like more knives, but I end up carrying less. As in 52-27= a lot less weight.

I still love reading all the comments about how I don't know what I'm doing.

Hey! What's wrong with hipster stoves?!? Where I live hipsters damn near grow on trees so fuel is easy to come by. The best part is (in my case anyway) I can always just chop off a couple fingers to make some tea in case I get lost

Seriously, though, lighten up just a bit. (see what I did there? hipster irony LOL)

Tons of people can't get out as much as they'd like, and even more don't have the skills they'd like. I've been very lucky to have had the life experiences I've had - a family with a love for the outdoors and travel, opportunities to develop the knowledge, skills, and experience to turn "bushwhacking/getting lost" into "hiking/camping." I'm very, very lucky to have had parents who's favorite refrain was "Do you know how far it is to a hospital?" rather than "Put that down and get back inside!" Outside of my extended family I only know one person who I don't have to babysit in real wilderness. My experience, and I'd guess yours, is not common. We have no small obligation to welcome others by showing and doing, inviting along.

100 years ago outdoors writers were lamenting the urbanization of the population, losing the skills that our recent ancestors used to get through the day, month, year. Yet here we are, doing the same things our ancestors did. Our vacations are called "survival reality shows" when taken out of context, and there is no shortage of people making a decent living teaching or a least appealing to the desire to sleep on the ground and spend a rainy day outside. I'm pretty sure thousands of years ago plenty of families went travelling with minimal tools and fabric shelter and called it "hunting" or "vacation" or whatever passed for those terms in Aramaic or Latin or Sanskrit, whatever.

And guaranteed there was a similar wellhead discussion as this thread - "Never do that to my knife," "Do it all the time, what I got it for," "Not without a mule, I'm old," "I'm older than you and don't need a mule because I don't carry the family grindstone to simply make breakfast," "Your legs aren't crooked from quarry work," "my legs aren't crooked because I use them to run from the invading army," etc. etc.

I live in the heart of a metropolis. If you saw me on the street you'd assume I'd die in three days without internet access. I might ) ), but my 18 y.o. niece introduced me to her friends' parents (I was wearing a suit and tie for her graduation) as "This is my uncle - you can drop him in the woods with nothing and he'd walk out fine." (she's wrong, but...) I'm telling you that your approach is asking for grief from folks who don't have your knowledge and experience. Stop looking at things like you against the world and start looking at it like you AND the world, "Here's how I have learned how to do it." There are no naysayers needing calling out. Share what you've found works. Help others find what works for them if they want but don't worry that other people do it different.

And if there are any pots in the room, I'm definitely a black kettle A speck in someone else's eye is always easier to see than the log in your own.

TLDR: stop enjoying "all the comments about how I don't know what I'm doing" and start reading all the comments saying you know what you are doing. Far more productive and rewarding. It's about sharing knowledge, not fighting over which way is "proper."

 

[Boris74]

Hey! What's wrong with hipster stoves?!? Where I live hipsters damn near grow on trees so fuel is easy to come by. The best part is (in my case anyway) I can always just chop off a couple fingers to make some tea in case I get lost

Seriously, though, lighten up just a bit. (see what I did there? hipster irony LOL)

Tons of people can't get out as much as they'd like, and even more don't have the skills they'd like. I've been very lucky to have had the life experiences I've had - a family with a love for the outdoors and travel, opportunities to develop the knowledge, skills, and experience to turn "bushwhacking/getting lost" into "hiking/camping." I'm very, very lucky to have had parents who's favorite refrain was "Do you know how far it is to a hospital?" rather than "Put that down and get back inside!" Outside of my extended family I only know one person who I don't have to babysit in real wilderness. My experience, and I'd guess yours, is not common. We have no small obligation to welcome others by showing and doing, inviting along.

100 years ago outdoors writers were lamenting the urbanization of the population, losing the skills that our recent ancestors used to get through the day, month, year. Yet here we are, doing the same things our ancestors did. Our vacations are called "survival reality shows" when taken out of context, and there is no shortage of people making a decent living teaching or a least appealing to the desire to sleep on the ground and spend a rainy day outside. I'm pretty sure thousands of years ago plenty of families went travelling with minimal tools and fabric shelter and called it "hunting" or "vacation" or whatever passed for those terms in Aramaic or Latin or Sanskrit, whatever.

And guaranteed there was a similar wellhead discussion as this thread - "Never do that to my knife," "Do it all the time, what I got it for," "Not without a mule, I'm old," "I'm older than you and don't need a mule because I don't carry the family grindstone to simply make breakfast," "Your legs aren't crooked from quarry work," "my legs aren't crooked because I use them to run from the invading army," etc. etc.

I live in the heart of a metropolis. If you saw me on the street you'd assume I'd die in three days without internet access. I might ) ), but my 18 y.o. niece introduced me to her friends' parents (I was wearing a suit and tie for her graduation) as "This is my uncle - you can drop him in the woods with nothing and he'd walk out fine." (she's wrong, but...) I'm telling you that your approach is asking for grief from folks who don't have your knowledge and experience. Stop looking at things like you against the world and start looking at it like you AND the world, "Here's how I have learned how to do it." There are no naysayers needing calling out. Share what you've found works. Help others find what works for them if they want but don't worry that other people do it different.

And if there are any pots in the room, I'm definitely a black kettle A speck in someone else's eye is always easier to see than the log in your own.

TLDR: stop enjoying "all the comments about how I don't know what I'm doing" and start reading all the comments saying you know what you are doing. Far more productive and rewarding. It's about sharing knowledge, not fighting over which way is "proper."

My favorite a while back was when I was told a pencil sharpener can not make shavings for fire starting. I forgot to add them blades to my total. I just got a new one today, even has a fancy shavings catcher on it and a hole for small and a hole for larger sticks for shaving fire starting tinder quickly and safely. Wonder what the old timers would think of this fancy technology.

 

[40oz]

I think there was a thread on one of the bushcrafting sites where a guy raced his Mora vs. his electric pencil sharpener. The Mora won, of course

It did not come across as a knee-jerk fixed contest, but a reasonable desire to know if a pencil sharpener might be worth carrying. We'll ignore the fact that the electric pencil sharpener had never been camping in it's short life

But yeah, the pencil shavings burned like wildfire, of course.

When I feel like cheating I stuff some lint from the laundry room into a Ziploc bag on the way out the door. If I'm going to carry a knife, Bic lighter, strike-anywhere matches and a fire steel, why draw the line at dryer lint?

 

[Boris74]

I think there was a thread on one of the bushcrafting sites where a guy raced his Mora vs. his electric pencil sharpener. The Mora won, of course

My mora will beat my pencil sharpener too. With the pencil sharpener I can pick dead standing twigs that are extremely dry and make a pile of tinder while I'm on the move and stuff it back in the pocket. So when I do stop its one step less I need to do to get a fire going. Collect some fresh fat wood on the way and I can have a starter fire going within minutes of stopping for camp. Make a shelter and either make a larger fire or use coals to start a Swedish cooking log if I find suitable dry wood to make one.

 

[HwangJino]

People take guns on their hikes?

I being knives on my hikes for photoshoots, I'll face it, I've never needed a knife on a hike, ever.

And usually when I hike the long 6 to 8 hour trails, i try to load up my backpack with tons of heavy stuff (usually frozen water kukri and clothes), since I like the challenge.

 

[gadunz]

12 fires in & I'm walking back out again.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Can I baton with a knife? Yes!

But also I can peel potatoes with my Viking axe, slice bacon with a cold chisel, and shred carrots with a chainsaw. But none of the are the ideal tool for the job, IMO.

When it comes to making kindling, I still prefer and axe. Maybe I am just old fashioned and it is too hard to teach an old dog new tricks after he has been doing it the same way for over 50+ years.

It is not about the "ideal" tool, at least for me. It's about improvising. If you have the ideal tool for every possible job, are you likely to be in a "survival" situation?

I'll bet you could build a cabin with a full ax. Not as easily as with a full carpenter's tool chest of power tools but do it nevertheless. And if you had no ax, ill bet you could open up wood with a knife and would be unlikely to "bash" on the knife in the process - and omit Tarzan-like yelling in the process.

 

[Thomas Linton]

People take guns on their hikes?

I being knives on my hikes for photoshoots, I'll face it, I've never needed a knife on a hike, ever.

And usually when I hike the long 6 to 8 hour trails, i try to load up my backpack with tons of heavy stuff (usually frozen water kukri and clothes), since I like the challenge.

We don't all hike in the same place.

t least one grizzly bear attacked a hiker who was found dead and partially eaten in Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming, judging by wounds on his arms, park officials said on Saturday.
. . .
The park recorded two deadly grizzly maulings in 2011.

 

[gadunz]

My favorite a while back was when I was told a pencil sharpener can not make shavings for fire starting. I forgot to add them blades to my total. I just got a new one today, even has a fancy shavings catcher on it and a hole for small and a hole for larger sticks for shaving fire starting tinder quickly and safely. Wonder what the old timers would think of this fancy technology?

Probably "Well, bugger me senseless."

 

[Thomas Linton]

I got a brass-framed sharpener from a drafting supply store some years ago. Kinda a luxury item, but it works.

 

[bt93]

It is not about the "ideal" tool, at least for me. It's about improvising. If you have the ideal tool for every possible job, are you likely to be in a "survival" situation?

I'll bet you could build a cabin with a full ax. Not as easily as with a full carpenter's tool chest of power tools but do it nevertheless. And if you had no ax, ill bet you could open up wood with a knife and would be unlikely to "bash" on the knife in the process - and omit Tarzan-like yelling in the process.

I think that's been the point. I go hiking I take my Buck 110 and a small hatchet. If I lose that hatchet I'll improvise with the knife and vice versa. The point isn't about an emergency situation where everthing goes. And sometimes when that is brought up everyone talks as though the only thing they'll be losing is the hatchet. It is possible to lose a knife, especially if it's on a belt sheath. Get caught in a snow slide and it's liable to pull your blade out of your sheath. Same if you fall in a fast moving stream. Knives often get lost as well as packs. Getting through a situation with a lack of proper equipment is more mental and about being innovative, not about the knife.
The thing with batoning is using the wrong tool for the job. Even though some knives are made to withstand batoning. I go camping and hiking for the pleasure, not to test my skill as a lone survivor. I equip myself with the equipment I need to do the hike comfortably and safely. I wouldn't leave anything behind just to test my ability because I already know what I can and cannot do and am comfortable with my knowledge and abilities.
All the prepping in the world will never make you prepared for a disaster. You might be fortunate enough to grab your bug out bag, but what then. Head for the hills and to hell with anyone who might need assistance? I know I'd be trying to help others, and most of what I have in a bag would probably be given to someone who needs it before I need it. In disasters people pull together and chips tend to fall off shoulders.
There are very few places in America that are more than 3 days from a paved road in any direction. If you silly enough to lose your pack and all the equipment in it you're probably silly enough to set down your knife and forget where you put it. The best survival skill is keeping a clear head and being able to walk long distances. Surviving with nothing and handling hunger doesn't require batoning.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Dear Brother bt,

The mental aspects of survival can hardly be overestimated. Indeed, part of the mental aspect is improvising/thinking "outside the box."

Can you really tell - with no information about the facts on the ground - and in advance - what is needed or not needed to survive in all cases?

If a man makes a fire with wood he used a knife to prep - in the absence of what is, in the opinion of many, the right/ideal tool - does that somehow get a lower "grade"? I thought it was Pass/Fail.

The point that you NO NO NEVER Party members simply will not deal with is that improvising with what you have, in the absence of the "ideal," may be the margin by which you survive. How the willingness to consider splitting wood with a knife is so far beyond the pale as to be beneath contempt seems contrary to the valid point that one needs mental flexibility to survive.

Not about anything goes.
Not about prepping for me.
Not about using tools that you do not have.
Not about lone wolf survivors.
Not about how far off a road you are.
Not about Cold Steel vs. CRKT
Not about full flat vs "Scandi"

If you don't NEED to do it, why do it at all?

About using what you have to do what you need to do to survive AND being ready to do that. Again, that does not require the silly bashing-knife-with-giant-log stuff that you see on the Instupidnet.

I respect your right to your opinion. I just want the undecided to carefully and respectfully consider your opinion and reject it.

So who teaches batoning?

• Ray Mears - page23 of 'Bushcraft - An Inspirational Guide to Surviving the Wilderness'
• Chris Janowsky (R.I.P.)
• Mors Kochanski https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=uvlmsH0IFT4 at about 4:50 mins
• Ron Hood (R.I.P.)
• Les Stroud (as per his new book)
• Jeff Randall (as per page 77, November 2000, Tactical Knives
• George Jasper - Six ways in & 12 ways out (USRSOG page 110)
• Cody Lundin (as per page 175 of 98.6)
• Christopher Nyerges

Want a list of the makers who say batoning is part of what their knives are built to do? I can do that.

 

[bt93]

Okay I'm done