Beware Md 25V Ripped Me Off!

I have to say that I would be very suspicious of someone that wanted a refund 1-month after receiving the rifle. At what point does the rifle become yours? I guess I don't see any major issues, but all the photos are at an odd angle. I also don't see anything that a new rail wouldn't fix.
 
Mooseyard said:
I have to say that I would be very suspicious of someone that wanted a refund 1-month after receiving the rifle. At what point does the rifle become yours? I guess I don't see any major issues, but all the photos are at an odd angle. I also don't see anything that a new rail wouldn't fix.
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Well that was my point. A weaver rail cost about $12 - $15, doing a FFL to FFL transfer is $20-$45 at each end + cost of shipping. As for the stock, I can't tell what is wrong from the pics but it sounds like you are getting a replacement for free. I would be bummed too if I ordered a rifle online and it came in with a rail off kilter, then again I would have inspected it the day it arrived. I also doubt the gentleman you bought the rife from was intentionally trying to screw you over.
 
Alfaholic said:
The problem is that this is not a clear issue of integrity. It is a complicated situation that began on another forum and seems to have migrated here.
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If these gentlemen were not members of Bladeforums, I would have closed the thread immediately. This is not the proper arena for problems occurring elsewhere. Only because the integrity of one or the other might be in doubt, both being members here as well as there, do we allow the discussion to continue.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Only as an integrity issue.

One problem with the way the thread developed is there is so much evidence / argument / insults that any chance of resolution gets drowned out in the noise.

That's why it is always best to think through a problem, present it in detail and clearly but as succinctly as possible, answer questions directly but without emotion, and don't get drawn into any off-topic distractions.
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phm14 said:
Dead right. It's all too easy to let frustration get the better of you.
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Considering you are the one slinging the snide comments at anyone who disagrees with you, perhaps you'd like to re-phrase that. Maybe you should re-read Esav's post and take it as instruction for next time.
 
Mooseyard said:
I have to say that I would be very suspicious of someone that wanted a refund 1-month after receiving the rifle. At what point does the rifle become yours? I guess I don't see any major issues, but all the photos are at an odd angle. I also don't see anything that a new rail wouldn't fix.
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Not to take any side in this thread however, have a similar problem regarding timeframe. I bought a rifle from a reputable dealer last Christmas for my son. A Father to Son special gift that you can only give once. The rifle looked great on the outside. The dealer, who is also a gunsmith, vouched for said rifle as it was being sold by a friend and also a gun dealer and supposedly had spent most of it's life in a safe. Since Deer season was in full swing after Xmas, the gun was stored and not shot until right before squirrel season this year. We had issues at sight in and I took the rifle apart and found some defect's along with part's I do not believe were original. I do not believe the quality control's of this particular manufacturer are that bad. I believe they are some of the best in the industry matter of fact. I believe I was duped and taken advantage of and think this rifle was assembled from various part's and some seconds. Just wanted to throw this in here as there is a large timeframe involved. The dealer, once questioned about these issues and pics sent, became hostile and all I asked for were some question's answered. Mind you, this is a very short version of a much longer story and the hell I went through to get this gift.
I should also add, I originally entered into this deal, on a Brand New rifle w/pics advertised on this dealer's site. When it arrived, it was not as advertised and then the whole fiasco began trying to get what I wanted which led me to this outcome. A real nightmare it was, and now, still is! That pic, is still on the website also, of a rifle that is not available and no longer made but still advertised as being so.
 
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Alfaholic said:
The problem is that this is not a clear issue of integrity. It is a complicated situation that began on another forum and seems to have migrated here.

To me it appears that there MAY BE faults and mistakes on both sides......but one thing I am certain of is that the OP was lax in waiting a month before complaining about the rifle. In doing so he placed himself in a very invidious position.

In knife terms imagine I sell a framelock to you. The knife arrives and for whatever reason you wait a month to open the package. Then you claim that there is a problem with the lock bar on the knife and want to return it..........Does that sound fair? Would anyone on BF accept that?
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Mooseyard said:
I have to say that I would be very suspicious of someone that wanted a refund 1-month after receiving the rifle. At what point does the rifle become yours? I guess I don't see any major issues, but all the photos are at an odd angle. I also don't see anything that a new rail wouldn't fix.
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The rifle was in my possession for 11 or 12 days before I took 1/2 day off for a range trip, not for a month. If you guys had read post #7, #19, or # 73, you would know that. I don't agree with the knife analogy. A gun is a machine that must be fired to be fully tested, and that can't be done legally at most homes. The problems with this rifle are not typical, and are not that hard to overlook on cursory inspection. When the gun misfired at the range, I performed a more detailed inspection and discovered the issues.
 
phm14 said:
A gun is a machine that must be fired to be fully tested, and that can't be done legally at most homes.
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Let me say it in your own words...
phm14 said:
Ron, are you blind?
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Need a gun range to see the damage you claim is so obvious?


Excuses abound I see. None of this matters anymore, you parted out the gun already.
 
phm14 said:
The rifle was in my possession for 11 or 12 days before I took 1/2 day off for a range trip, not for a month. If you guys had read post #7, #19, or # 73, you would know that. I don't agree with the knife analogy. A gun is a machine that must be fired to be fully tested, and that can't be done legally at most homes. The problems with this rifle are not typical, and are not that hard to overlook on cursory inspection. When the gun misfired at the range, I performed a more detailed inspection and discovered the issues.
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Quoted below from your post #7

phm14 said:
It took me a week to get to my dealers to pick it up, and another 11 days to pull it out of my safe and get it to the range. Since that was the case, I offered to pay for return shipping on this,
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That's 18 days by your own admission, so you are somewhat economical with the truth in your last post.

I don't have any more to say about this thread.................
 
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It must really be horrible to live in the 2nd largest state in the union and not have a place to stop and fire off a few rounds to check out a new firearm. I live in the third smallest and have no shortage of places to go. State land, public ranges, multiple farms, sand pits, not to mention the back yard.
 
jstrykr74 said:
It must really be horrible to live in the 2nd largest state in the union and not have a place to stop and fire off a few rounds to check out a new firearm. I live in the third smallest and have no shortage of places to go. State land, public ranges, multiple farms, sand pits, not to mention the back yard.
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That's a little unfair. We don't know exactly where he lives, but Houston isn't open range. Besides, timing does confuse the issue, but if he thought the rifle was good, he wasn't worried about rushing off to check the performance.

The question here, over a hundred posts later, is that both parties feel the other didn't communicate essential information at the right time. All the other chatter is trying to psychoanalyze, which is futile.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
That's a little unfair. We don't know exactly where he lives, but Houston isn't open range. Besides, timing does confuse the issue, but if he thought the rifle was good, he wasn't worried about rushing off to check the performance.

The question here, over a hundred posts later, is that both parties feel the other didn't communicate essential information at the right time. All the other chatter is trying to psychoanalyze, which is futile.
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brilliantly put. you couldn't have summed it up any better or fairer. good job, Sir.
 
Critically noted posts by the OP 7, 19, and 73:

phm14 said:
I'll be posting the pics here as well. They will show, without a doubt,still dought that the defects in the rifle are from poor craftsmanship, not damage from being dropped as Md 25v claims. He claims I bent the scope rail. If the gun had been dropped hard enough to bend the rail mount, there would be a mark left on it. I'll give you $15 to buy a new rail after you contact the OM and tell them they made a substandard rail I guess the "damage" he claims also caused the inletting in the stock to be badly offset to one side, so that the gun FTF (fails to fire) ~ 10 rounds? Md 25v has said nothing about the stock, yet the stock manufacturer is replacing it due to the major defect. A true testament to the stockmacker IMO I stay pretty busy running a vet clinic. It took me a week to get to my dealers to pick it up, and another 11 days to pull it out of my safe and get it to the range. Since that was the case, I offered to pay for return shipping on this, but since Md 25v refused to give me his username after he deleted the ad, he must have thought there would be no consequences. This is the second time he has called his lawyer. The first was right after I contacted him about the issue (I've got the emails, too). His actions give no reason to believe I would have ever seen my money again had I noticed the issues right away. I'll post up the pics later today after I take care of some business You're a busy guy. I understand. It may help our fellow members here to know I have over 9 years of 100% positive feedback on Gunbroker I've seen others with great feedback.. I'm posting this info so Md 25v may think twice before he screws someone else.
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phm14 said:
Apologies for any confusion, CA. I was assuming the pics were self explanatory. No they weren't. Pics of a rail on a level on an unlevel surface means you have a bigger issue than a $15 rail. Trust me on this.... I've built quite a few homesAccording to the best assessment of my gunsmith, and myself, the taps pn the barrel for the scope rail were not drilled in the proper location, causing the mount to cant off center. Irrelevent The stock was also inletted badly off center, causing the barreled action to cant to one side, and the magazines to hang up instead of dropping free when the mag release is pressed. The stock inletting also causes the forearm to bind into one side of the barrel, whereas the design is supposed to free float the barrel. This binding is also the likely cause of the FTF (failure to fire) ~ every 10-12 rounds. Inconclussive The offset in the inletting is easily demonstrated my counting the layers of laminate on either side of the magwell. We will never know The gun was at my dealers for ~ 7 days before I picked it up, and spent another 12 days in my safe before I took it to the range where the problems became apparent. Realizing that I should have noticed the issues immediately, I offered to pay return shipping on top of eating my transfer fee. Instead of working with me on a solution, Md 25v immediately mentioned his lawyer, then proceeded to call me a liar. I continued to be professional, but did let him know that he would be exposed in order to warn the online community about his dishonest practices. Before the deal went south , I had asked him for his username so I could leave positive feedback on the forum. After it went bad and he had deleted the ad, he still refused to give his username, and informed me that any future emails from me would go to his spam folder. I can only assume that since most forums prohibit the posting of personal info, Md 25v assumed that he wouldn't suffer any consequences since I didn't have his username. Md 25v has claimed I bent the mount, and the pics show that the mount is not bent. He has never addressed the stock issue, instead he blocked my emails. I discovered his username yesterday, and began to make good on my word. I think the real question is whether Md 25v is the type of seller we want on our forums.
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phm14 said:
I appreciate your input, but I think you may have overlooked some important points:

1) The pics here show there was never any damage to the rifle. The defects are from poor workmanship. Sorry, don't see it
2) I do have the personal info on Md 25v, but most forums don't allow that to be posted. After Md 25v deleted the ad, refused to give his username and told me to take a hike, I did send him a link to a FB page, asking if it was his. He replied "What is FB?"-another attempt at concealing his ID. I don't consider warning others about Md 25vs' extremely poor judgment to be "spamming". When Md 25v thumbed his nose at my efforts to work this out, and refused to give his username, he brought this on himself. I'm sure he never bargained for this
3) The gun arrived at my dealers' 20 days before I made contact about the issues. For the 3rd time, I offered a compromise of paying for return shipping, due to the error on my part. I will say that after inspecting hundreds of guns for purchase over the past 30 years, it is embarrassing that I missed the issues initially. Does that excuse Md 25v from not disclosing the issues in his ad,no but what add accusing me of causing one of the issues yes, hiding his online ID I would too cough,,,, stalker, insulting the intelligence of members here and calling me a [B]liar[/B]?
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WOW,,,, sorry, I'm just not buying it and after reading the post again I'm just more than a little tired of being insulted today,,,, If that's OK with OP?
 
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I'd like to thank those who had the patience to wade through this thread and understand what occurred. The constructive criticism offered will help with a more clear and concise explanation as I warn others where I find Md 25v selling.:thumbup:
 
Md 25v contacted me a couple of months ago. Not sure what the catharsis was, but he decided to make this right. He refunded the $600. Maybe he believes in Karma/golden rule after all.
 
Well it may have taken him awhile but at least he did the right thing in the end. Good to read that he did well by you in the long run at least.
 
Wow! After that much time, that's great to hear. Thanks for taking the time to update the thread too. Congratulations!
 
I had put the whole thing behind me. Could have knocked me over with a feather when I got the email. I was pretty happy to see that $600. come back.
 
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