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Beware Md 25V Ripped Me Off!
- Thread starter phm14
- Start date
Razor,
There are no holes in the receiver. The holes are drilled only into the barrel and the mount just floats over the receiver with a screw as a pressure point pushing on top of the receiver.
PHM,
Have you tried loosening the barrel screw and torquing the barrel to the left (looking from the front) and maintaining that torque while you retighten the barrel screw. Then loosen the barrel mount screws, torque the mount to the left and again maintain that torque while retighteming the mount screws. There just might be enough "slop" in the screws/holes to get rid of that cant. It is worth a shot and would only take you less than 15 minutes to do. You have nothing to lose by trying and you can't hurt anything unless you are really careless. That's what I would do if it were mine.
There are no holes in the receiver. The holes are drilled only into the barrel and the mount just floats over the receiver with a screw as a pressure point pushing on top of the receiver.
PHM,
Have you tried loosening the barrel screw and torquing the barrel to the left (looking from the front) and maintaining that torque while you retighten the barrel screw. Then loosen the barrel mount screws, torque the mount to the left and again maintain that torque while retighteming the mount screws. There just might be enough "slop" in the screws/holes to get rid of that cant. It is worth a shot and would only take you less than 15 minutes to do. You have nothing to lose by trying and you can't hurt anything unless you are really careless. That's what I would do if it were mine.
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2011
- Messages
- 31,097
I don't know either gentleman in this disagreement, but......
This seems pretty easy to me as an outisder and with limited information. For those who think there is nothing wrong with the rifle.....if that were the case the seller wouldn't have said the damage happened during shipping. He himself admits there is at least one issue.
As for the buyer waiting too long. Some of us are like a kid on xmas morning and can't wait to get home and play with our new toy. Some aren't like that. Either way it shows trust. If one didn't trust the seller, they would get, open, and take out back and shoot the rifle right away. When one trusts a seller they won't feel the need to do that instantly, or right away. Point is hammering on this point is hammering on a fellow for being trusting.
Now how the damge occured is the real issue at hand, imho. Seller says shipping, buyer says defects were there frokm the getgo. I lean towards the buyer on this one. Stock maker says defect send back we'll replace. Means defect was always there. We can see from the pics the mount isn't bent from a drop as the seller said. on the info provided without any counter pointing from the seller.....we can only deduct this.
In the end buyer isn't happy, seller sold a rifle with minor defects, but still defects I assume undisclosed....so who should be the bigger man on this one?
All of this could change if the seller wants to counter point the issues to fil in the blanks? At this point as I type this it hasn't happened.
What I see is some what I can buddy bias going on. Seller is a gold member with history and buyer isn't reverse the roles and id bet the buyer would be rallyed around.
I think the seller needs to step up and at the minimum pitch in to get the rifle to a state it was listed for sale as. Its really that simple, and the right and honorable thing to do.
This seems pretty easy to me as an outisder and with limited information. For those who think there is nothing wrong with the rifle.....if that were the case the seller wouldn't have said the damage happened during shipping. He himself admits there is at least one issue.
As for the buyer waiting too long. Some of us are like a kid on xmas morning and can't wait to get home and play with our new toy. Some aren't like that. Either way it shows trust. If one didn't trust the seller, they would get, open, and take out back and shoot the rifle right away. When one trusts a seller they won't feel the need to do that instantly, or right away. Point is hammering on this point is hammering on a fellow for being trusting.
Now how the damge occured is the real issue at hand, imho. Seller says shipping, buyer says defects were there frokm the getgo. I lean towards the buyer on this one. Stock maker says defect send back we'll replace. Means defect was always there. We can see from the pics the mount isn't bent from a drop as the seller said. on the info provided without any counter pointing from the seller.....we can only deduct this.
In the end buyer isn't happy, seller sold a rifle with minor defects, but still defects I assume undisclosed....so who should be the bigger man on this one?
All of this could change if the seller wants to counter point the issues to fil in the blanks? At this point as I type this it hasn't happened.
What I see is some what I can buddy bias going on. Seller is a gold member with history and buyer isn't reverse the roles and id bet the buyer would be rallyed around.
I think the seller needs to step up and at the minimum pitch in to get the rifle to a state it was listed for sale as. Its really that simple, and the right and honorable thing to do.
Astute observations. Allow me to ad:
These are major issues. Take away the stock and the incorrectly tapped barrel, and I'm not left with much. I offered to cover return shipping to make up for the delay in discovering the problems with the rifle. Based on his actions, I have no reason to think he would have returned my money had I discovered the problems the day I picked it up.
If the seller actually believed the the gun was damaged after he shipped, why didn't he ever ask for pics of the box/case/optic? His one defense that I dropped the gun and bent the scope rail is shown to be a lie from the pics in this thread. These facts demonstrate intentional deception. In light of that, I'm not at all surprised that he hasn't shown his face here again, since he doesn't have a leg to stand on. Md 25v didn't even attempt to defend is actions on the forum where the ad was placed, and his post in this thread proves he went there to view the pics.
People tend to look at post counts and paid member status as credibility, when that is not always the case. I have been registered here since 2006. My post count is low because on this forum, I tend listen more than I talk.
Md 25v refused to give me his username. His emails are signed to indicate that he works for "Maryland Amphibian and Reptile Atlas", and they have never heard of him. His profile on this forum says he is a "biologist", and on RFC his occupation is "biological surveyor". Why would a bona fide biologist need to make up a job?
Its been mentioned at least twice that the ad was placed on another forum, so it's less relevant here. This quote is posted in the BF Exchange Rules, Section 6, Rule 3, by the BF owner: "These forums operate on honesty and integrity. As such, we have a dim view of people who act dishonestly. Your actions in the community have consequences. Even if they happen elsewhere." I would guess that those consequences include putting guys like Md 25v on the "Wall of Shame"
I am a 48 year old veterinary practice owner/manager. Anyone can go to Gunbroker.com and view the 100% feedback I have accrued over the last 9 years under the same username, phm14. This is the first time I have ever had to "out" a dishonest seller, and I sincerely wish it wasn't necessary.
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Let's start from the beginning. Here's the pic from the original ad:
[/IMG]
+1 :thumbup: Crummy design on the rail base. Personally I wouldn't want anything touching the barrel for no other reason than it affects harmonics. Looks crappy but a crooked rail shouldn't affect accuracy. Maybe a few mils difference on the scope when zeroing. If it really bothers you, just mount the scope to the receiver, $15-$20 and problem solved.
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Messages
- 7,385
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Sticky wicket.
Firearms - like mentioned - typically have an attached inspection period of typically less than a week. Yeah, some of us are like a kid-at-christmas and immediately have a new toy out. These people will discover a problem immediately. The rest of us may sit on something for a month or two before we can go play. Life gets in the way, yanno? For those of us in that situation, we take a risk that "everything is okay" in terms of function. If we buy a firearm from a manufacturer, we might expect some resolution. If we buy a used gun from an individual - and wait beyond an accepted inspection, we assume the risk.
Do both the OP and seller agree that "the rifle ain't right the way it looks now?" I think they have: good. If seller claims it wasn't sent that way, then he is either claiming
a) it was damaged in shipment (OP waited too long to have seller make claims against shipper and receiving FFL would have had to make initial claim when received,)
b) the OP must have damaged it
c) seller is unscrupulous
OP says it wasn't damaged by him so it could only be:
a) during shipment (he and his FFL made no initials claims/evidence to shipping agent)
b) prior to shipment and neither he or his FFL made more than a cursory inspection upon receipt, instead waiting for a month.
So, if both acknowledge it is not "right" now but seller says not that way when shipped and/or is lying, then OP messed up. He needed to IMMEDIATELY inspect a gun upon receipt and not accept transfer.
IMHO, based on the statements here, either the OP was negligent in inspection of the firearm or he unknowingly caused the damage. I think there is a good chance that both the seller and OP feel they are blameless regarding the condition of the gun. Unfortunately, one party didn't do the responsible thing and inspect a firearm prior to acceptance. An inspection that, if you feel the problems are as visually evident as represented, should have been noticed.
You made an interstate transfer of a firearm via motor/air carrier and received by an FFL. You don't have the seller's personal information and are having to depend on spamming for his user name across net forums, youtube and facebook?? Really?? You should have a copy of his driver's license at the least, if the seller was an unlicensed individual shipping to an FFL.
My opinion is that you recognize you no longer have legal recourse on your side, due to the time frame you kept the firearm, and are using the court of public opinion to defame the seller. If the cant was this poor upon receipt, you should have noticed. Waiting a month to "notice" really kinda kills your recourse. I'm really not trying to flame the OP. I feel for ya, man. Honestly.
One of them is lying. (Captain Obvious, I know.) If the seller is the liar, then OP should have not accepted the gun, if so visually evident, and immediately returned. You didn't and it costs you. If the OP is the liar, then I, as the seller, would sue him for defamation of character, if possible.
Without regard to who is lying, the OP either made one of two mistakes:
a) He either damaged the gun.
b) He didn't inspect the gun for obvious external problems.
Either way, the OP now owns this rifle and should own the situation. My opinion only and worth less than the time spent to type this... I wish each of you the best.
Firearms - like mentioned - typically have an attached inspection period of typically less than a week. Yeah, some of us are like a kid-at-christmas and immediately have a new toy out. These people will discover a problem immediately. The rest of us may sit on something for a month or two before we can go play. Life gets in the way, yanno? For those of us in that situation, we take a risk that "everything is okay" in terms of function. If we buy a firearm from a manufacturer, we might expect some resolution. If we buy a used gun from an individual - and wait beyond an accepted inspection, we assume the risk.
Do both the OP and seller agree that "the rifle ain't right the way it looks now?" I think they have: good. If seller claims it wasn't sent that way, then he is either claiming
a) it was damaged in shipment (OP waited too long to have seller make claims against shipper and receiving FFL would have had to make initial claim when received,)
b) the OP must have damaged it
c) seller is unscrupulous
OP says it wasn't damaged by him so it could only be:
a) during shipment (he and his FFL made no initials claims/evidence to shipping agent)
b) prior to shipment and neither he or his FFL made more than a cursory inspection upon receipt, instead waiting for a month.
So, if both acknowledge it is not "right" now but seller says not that way when shipped and/or is lying, then OP messed up. He needed to IMMEDIATELY inspect a gun upon receipt and not accept transfer.
IMHO, based on the statements here, either the OP was negligent in inspection of the firearm or he unknowingly caused the damage. I think there is a good chance that both the seller and OP feel they are blameless regarding the condition of the gun. Unfortunately, one party didn't do the responsible thing and inspect a firearm prior to acceptance. An inspection that, if you feel the problems are as visually evident as represented, should have been noticed.
You made an interstate transfer of a firearm via motor/air carrier and received by an FFL. You don't have the seller's personal information and are having to depend on spamming for his user name across net forums, youtube and facebook?? Really?? You should have a copy of his driver's license at the least, if the seller was an unlicensed individual shipping to an FFL.
My opinion is that you recognize you no longer have legal recourse on your side, due to the time frame you kept the firearm, and are using the court of public opinion to defame the seller. If the cant was this poor upon receipt, you should have noticed. Waiting a month to "notice" really kinda kills your recourse. I'm really not trying to flame the OP. I feel for ya, man. Honestly.
One of them is lying. (Captain Obvious, I know.) If the seller is the liar, then OP should have not accepted the gun, if so visually evident, and immediately returned. You didn't and it costs you. If the OP is the liar, then I, as the seller, would sue him for defamation of character, if possible.
Without regard to who is lying, the OP either made one of two mistakes:
a) He either damaged the gun.
b) He didn't inspect the gun for obvious external problems.
Either way, the OP now owns this rifle and should own the situation. My opinion only and worth less than the time spent to type this... I wish each of you the best.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2008
- Messages
- 1,692
This thread just warrants a response. First off you knowingly purchased a "built" gun and expected perfection. Ha, shame on you. Next you waited weeks to even look the firearm over, shame on you again. For someone with a high rating on gunbroker.com you sure aren't showing much experience in these matters. If you were to walk into a gun shop and pick this rifle up the minute you walk out the door the item is yours. Most shops will help you get it fixed but only if it is something a manufacturer is willing to fix, but I am pretty sure a full refund is out of the question. This is a "FrankenRuger", you purchased it as such, your best bet would have been to build it yourself. Time and money wouldn't have been on your side but knowing what was done and relying on someone else wouldn't be a problem. You would have had the original parts and you could have sent anything back to get it fixed no problems.
Lastly, this issue seems completely resolved as you have already sent the stock back to the maker and sold the scope. I think you have accomplished your goal of flaming MD. So let us know how the rifle shoots after you get done with the things you are fixing. I am pretty interested to see if a new stock will fix the FTF. The best part of this thread is you already have a buyer for the rifle if it doesn't shoot.
Lastly, this issue seems completely resolved as you have already sent the stock back to the maker and sold the scope. I think you have accomplished your goal of flaming MD. So let us know how the rifle shoots after you get done with the things you are fixing. I am pretty interested to see if a new stock will fix the FTF. The best part of this thread is you already have a buyer for the rifle if it doesn't shoot.
I appreciate your input, but I think you may have overlooked some important points:
1) The pics here show there was never any damage to the rifle. The defects are from poor workmanship.
2) I do have the personal info on Md 25v, but most forums don't allow that to be posted. After Md 25v deleted the ad, refused to give his username and told me to take a hike, I did send him a link to a FB page, asking if it was his. He replied "What is FB?"-another attempt at concealing his ID. I don't consider warning others about Md 25vs' extremely poor judgment to be "spamming". When Md 25v thumbed his nose at my efforts to work this out, and refused to give his username, he brought this on himself.
3) The gun arrived at my dealers' 20 days before I made contact about the issues. For the 3rd time, I offered a compromise of paying for return shipping, due to the error on my part. I will say that after inspecting hundreds of guns for purchase over the past 30 years, it is embarrassing that I missed the issues initially. Does that excuse Md 25v from not disclosing the issues in his ad, accusing me of causing one of the issues, hiding his online ID, insulting the intelligence of members here and calling me a liar?
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Maybe it's just me but if you spent as much time shooting your rifle as you do washing your car, running track, out the wife, attending parties and cross forum flaming I think you would find there is nothing whatever wrong with the rifle.
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