Big Big Secret>>>>>>>>

Last Visible Canary said:
I find this one particularly interesting....

If the dimples are a result of the metalurgical creation of infi, then they should only be present on the flats of the bar stock. if they are only ever present on the flats of the steel (the area that is exposed to oxygen), and the beveling has them, that that would mean that they were formed in that shape when they were intially poured/rolled/made.

If the dimpling is present even after a peice of barstock is ground down - then that would indicate that there are large chunks of carbides or hard spots being knocked out by the machining process: OR that the dimples are actually small pockets of gas present throughout the matrix - wich woudl be bad since the edge would be mall messed up and bumpy if that was the case.

So it would seem that the dimples are formed after the cnc machining process, but are removed by hand grinding any particular area. That would indicate that it is either a chemical process that is causing it that comes between the finished cnc grinding, and the coating of the blade, or a result of a heat treating process in between those two stages.
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Huh? Are you addressing me?
 
valleytinworks said:
ok folks here is what makes me wonder about these knives, i have been in the metal biz for a while, i stamp all of our stuff on a 600 ton drop hammer press built in 1860, so i look for better steel for dies all the time....

it was when i stripped my first hell razor that my mind was bothered by something..... couldnt put my finger on it until i stripped my fbm....

the infamous infi dimples....... lets presume that jerry has it cold or hot rolled, well the dimples would be on the flats of the bar stock.

not in the corrogated areas right?

well in both my hr and fbm there are dimples in the corrogated areas and on the 'grinds' near the edge.....


does anyone have an idea why this is?


oh here is another clue

the only grind marks on both blades are around the handle and finger choil


and folks my idea on how this is done is only relevant to the knives with corrogated areas?
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Well, call me stupid, but I still don't understand what you're gettin' at:confused:
 
Matteo Escobar said:
Huh? Are you addressing me?
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I was essentially stating that this is something more then a simple assertion of proprietary knowledge on the part of valleytinworks, but also lead into a reassement of my own previous statements on the subject of this thread.

lol... that was a stupid way to put all that... sorry.
 
voppa said:
Well, call me stupid, but I still don't understand what you're gettin' at:confused:
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if you grind a blade down from a peice of bar stock and there are dimples - that means there are a lot of holes in the steel. but that cant be the case since the dimples (pockets of missing steel) go away once you grind it on a grinding belt.

So the dimples in infi appear to be formed at some other point after its first created. It seems like they come into existence during the knife making process, wich just seems wierd.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
if you grind a blade down from a peice of bar stock and there are dimples - that means there are a lot of holes in the steel. but that cant be the case since the dimples (pockets of missing steel) go away once you grind it on a grinding belt.

So the dimples in infi appear to be formed at some other point after its first created. It seems like they come into existence during the knife making process, wich just seems wierd.
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I understand that part, but VTW kinda implied he knew WHERE in the process this occured.
 
I have nothing to add except to say that I never thought about the dimples in the ridges. That's cool.

And what does INFI smelt like? I bet it smelts like. . . . victory.
 
I find this interesting I hope it gets taken to its end.

Thanks VTW:thumbup:
 
I beleive antimony and phosphorus are combined with nitrogen in an "impurity alloying" reaction, causing them to segregate from the steel matrix?

the presence of nickel in low carbon steels can help reduce the amount of free nitrogen present????

perhaps explaining the presence of pitted area's over the surface after a heat treatment cycling???????????????

:confused: :confused: :confused:

I get lost the second chemicals come into play. So the best I could add after this point would be speculation based on random internet articles.
 
The big question here is was VTW chemical analysis the same as posted??

Now as for the process..My guess is that INFI is most likely hot rolled into whatever stock size Busse wants and then machined via CNC to whatever design needed.

Dimples - the great question. The old knives show it more than the new knives. What causes these dimples? The hot rolling process of steel, workers use salt thrown onto the steel to lubricate it as it goes between rollers. As the hard salt dissolves it causes a dimple in the steel. Could this be it? The dimples are then added during hot working so no voids would ever be present.

Newer processes probably use liquid sodium or other means of lubrication thus reducing the dimpling effect. Again this is all my conjecture as I do not know.

VTW, has a different theory. VTW, I will let you state it and don't worry, Jerry will not care, since, as I told you privately, I am sure that theory is 99.999% wrong. Not to say that my theory is right as it may be just as wrong. But it is fun to make gueses.:thumbup:
 
Last Visible Canary said:
I beleive antimony and phosphorus are combined with nitrogen in an "impurity alloying" reaction, causing them to segregate from the steel matrix?

:confused: :confused: :confused:
.
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Actually, electric arc furnaces impart nitrogen into steel in large quantities. Degassification is usually done to remove the nitrogen to be able to finish the steel. My guess is that this is how the Nitrogen is embedded into the steel. Busse just makes sure that the Nitrogen does not get removed from the steel matrix.
 
Cobalt said:
Actually, electric arc furnaces impart nitrogen into steel in large quantities. Degassification is usually done to remove the nitrogen to be able to finish the steel. My guess is that this is how the Nitrogen is embedded into the steel. Busse just makes sure that the Nitrogen does not get removed from the steel matrix.
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I half heartedly remember jerry or someone making a comment that the nitrogen was used as an element of the hardening process.... is nitrogen usually added to steel for the purpose of hardening, or reducing impurities?

in the degassification process, could it be that only the surface is effected as a result of the core being unable to release the gas content?


(note I have no chemical backround :( )
 
Last Visible Canary said:
I half heartedly remember jerry or someone making a comment that the nitrogen was used as an element of the hardening process.... is nitrogen usually added to steel for the purpose of hardening, or reducing impurities?

in the degassification process, could it be that only the surface is effected as a result of the core being unable to release the gas content?


(note I have no chemical backround :( )
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Nitrogen is an actual element within the steel, which means that it was added during the smelting process within the furnace, and possibly the electric arc furnace as I mentioned. I do not know of any other process that imparts that much nitrogen into the steel. And it has to be during smelting for it to be embedded within the steel matrix.

of course this could be the reason for the dimples...
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