"Black Box" Winchesters

I would return the Doctor's knife if the issues you describe were not mentioned. If this is an ebay knife it is important that buyers return knives that are 'less' than described. It is the only way to keep sellers 'honest'.
kj
 
The Doc didn't cost too much, so I just spent the evening fixing what I could. The blades as tight now and the gaps are removed. The blades still have some bends in them as if they were from another pattern where they needed the angles to fit. If I were a betting man I'd wager it was a return that sat on a shelf at a big store (one we all know well, near Pigeon Forge) until it went on the auction site. The successful repairs made it a keeper. I'll get some pics up soon.
 
supratentorial said:
Sounds like you got a couple bad ones. Maybe that's why the knives were being sold. ;) :p :D

ALL of the problems that you mentioned are problems that I've also experienced with EVERY manufacturer (even companies that have been around for less than 10 years) though by far the most problems have been from knives by Queen. It's old news. The complaint threads used to be a common occurrence. I've heard the old tooling excuse used a lot. I'm not sure if I buy it. Maybe.

I'm not always sure if I'm on the same page with other collectors these days. A lot of folks seem to care about completely different aspects of knives. And some things are a matter of degree. A few pinholes of light through the springs will have no real significance. But a larger gap and poorly fitted knife with wobbly blades and liners that buckle obviously isn't good craftsmanship. ...Yes, I've gotten ones that bad!! :( They weren't the black box knives though.

The "black box" knives were a mini renaissance in their time. Some are 25+ years old now. I've owned at least a couple dozen of them and in general, they've been very good. They're generally the best knives that I have ever gotten from Queen. And the quality can be comparable to knives that cost much more. The patterns were terrific. The grinds were good (MUCH better than the grinds on many of the Schatt and Morgan knives). And the jigged bone on Queen's knives made most of the stuff from other companies look amateur... but lately their jigged bone has been much less impressive and other companies have stepped up their games. GEC went from store bought jigged bone to amateur to best around.

At the prices the "black box" knives go for now (hidden among tons of foreign made Winchester branded knives on the big auction site), they are sometimes extremely undervalued. I still carry a couple and have some in storage for a rainy day.

Anywho.... I'm sorry that the knives weren't better examples. You might contact Queen and see if they'll fix them up for you. Or maybe just return them to the seller.
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Well said!! This has been my experience as well. Most of the Black Box Winchesters (White Box too) are spectacular examples of old patterns with quality workmanship. I have had a loose one come through but since I bought several examples of the pattern, it got tapped and went into my pocket.
 
I read some of this thread this morning and forgot I have this.......

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J_Curd said:
The Doc didn't cost too much, so I just spent the evening fixing what I could. The blades as tight now and the gaps are removed. The blades still have some bends in them as if they were from another pattern where they needed the angles to fit. If I were a betting man I'd wager it was a return that sat on a shelf at a big store (one we all know well, near Pigeon Forge) until it went on the auction site. The successful repairs made it a keeper. I'll get some pics up soon.
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How did you fix the gaps and loose blade?
 
A ball peen hammer, belt sander, and paper wheel...and a bit of practice on junk knives :)
 
10 years, a pittance of practice compared to most.
 
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I'm actually appreciating my problem children a bit more now.

Some jewel files and a study of the flat, half, and opened position geometry have offered me an option to file the geometry to come closer to flush closed/half/opened profiles.

Seeing that I want to make knives in the back room of a shooting range when I retire, the dual income sources continue to be more and more feasible.
 
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I've gone thru the complete thread and several members have posted quite a bit of information and great pictures of this series of knives, Thank you.

One thing I am still confused about is the lettering on the box, is it only the red letter boxes that make it a black box Winchester? I picked up this 1987 toothpick this morning, the lettering on the box is white but the pattern # and date fit the charts provided earlier in this thread.

Also this one appears to have a curved number stamp, I found a post way back in this thread that states this is fairly scarce, only used on the very early ones.

Pics are from seller, will take better when it arrives.

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Augie said:
I've gone thru the complete thread and several members have posted quite a bit of information and great pictures of this series of knives, Thank you.

One thing I am still confused about is the lettering on the box, is it only the red letter boxes that make it a black box Winchester? I picked up this 1987 toothpick this morning, the lettering on the box is white but the pattern # and date fit the charts provided earlier in this thread.

Also this one appears to have a curved number stamp, I found a post way back in this thread that states this is fairly scarce, only used on the very early ones.
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The Black Box Winchester knives that were first released (1987-1991) -- the ones with brown jigged bone handles -- came in black boxes with red lettering... with one exception, the model 1924.

All the model 1924 knives I've seen have a black box with white letters. According to a chart by Clarence Risner, the curved tang stamp was used on the first version and about 400 were made. The straight line tang stamp was used on later versions... about 4,000 of these were made.

After about 1991, there were many other black box releases with various handle materials and different letter colors, e.g. Mother of Pearl handled knives came in black box/white letters; Burnt Orange bone handled knives came in black box/gold letters.

There are also some jigged Delrin-handled Winchester knives. All of these that I've seen come with black boxes/white lettering.

A note of caution: beware of the celluloid handled Winchester knives. They are notorious for outgassing.


Black Box Winchester knives that were first released (1987-1991)
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Al, big Thank You for the detailed reply, that clears it up for me.
 
Here is some of my grandfather's collection. He's been slowly selling them off over the years.
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Does anyone else have a "Maher & Grosh" branded Black Box Winchester? I have a coffin jack, it's very obviously the same as the Winchester model, except the branding and the shield.

Sorry for the crappy pic... but for context...

Photo%20Nov%2023%2C%2010%2017%2049%20AM.jpg
 
tstaut said:
Does anyone else have a "Maher & Grosh" branded Black Box Winchester? I have a coffin jack, it's very obviously the same as the Winchester model, except the branding and the shield.

Sorry for the crappy pic... but for context...

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/8ym1exkxclpmobk/Photo Nov 23, 10 17 49 AM.jpg?dl=0
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Are you saying it's the same pattern or the same knife with different branding? Do you have a side by side photo?

The bone is also different as well as the shield. Some side by side photos would help show other similarities or differences.
 
Same knife with different branding. I don't have a side by side photo but have looked at many pics of the Winchester coffin and am 100% positive it's the same knife.

Other than the tang stamps and shield, the Maher & Grosh has the pen behind the main, obviously with the nail nick on the pile side. I think maybe some of the later Winchesters had this as well?

I'll try to get some better pics for comparison.
 
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