"Black Box" Winchesters

I posted "pattern number" because that is what is marked on the back side tang of the Black Box Winchesters. I was not aware that 1950 is not the correct number for this pattern. There were no Winchester reproductions in 1950 so it is not a year date.
kj

Oh, I know bud! :thumbup: :thumbup: I was just wondering if 1950 was stamped on the stag versions for some reason. That's why I posted the ref to the pattern numbers and asked about the box. Sorry if I came across as correcting you. That was completely unintended. It was just a question I had and thought I would share it here.
 
Robert, i did not see anything you said as correcting me. You simply posted some correct facts. When i post something that is not correct, i want to be corrected because then i learn something. I have this strong drive to learn as much as i can about every good knife i see. I think this is so for many of the posters at BF.
kj
 
A little Gunstock.
Greg

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Thanks for the info guys. Date is on the box as well. Used it today, sure it's 1095 ;)... Fine sweet blade!
 
Thanks for the info guys. Date is on the box as well. Used it today, sure it's 1095 ;)... Fine sweet blade!

Thank you brownshoe!!! :thumbup: That confirms the 1950 as the stag Banana Trapper and why that number on a black bone model is a factory error! :thumbup:
 
Mighty fine collection and pictures! They represent a mini golden era in production knifemaking! And they were made under the direction of Great Eastern's Bill Howard I believe, when he was at Queen!
 
Picked up this Winchester Queen made Barlow this week. Was this one of the black box Winchesters or some other run?
I have not been able to find very much information out there on it.

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Thanks Charlie. I am still chasing 2 pieces to finalize the collection. As far as the razor goes, there's a list of the patterns made in this series on page 5.
I am not sure of the role that Howard had in these knives. I do know that Charlie Dorton (Original Bulldog Knives) was a partner in Blue Grass Cutlery when these knives were made. The bone
is from the old Utica factory according to Buzz Parker from conversation with Jim Parker and Charlie Dorton. Charlie Dorton was also instrumental in the creation of the Case Classics
working with Jim Parker.
Greg
 
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Interesting to learn of Charlie Dorton's hand in these knives. Almost everyone 'knocks' Jim Parker, but he really added a huge number of knives to the USA market, many of them quite good knives.
kj
 
I don't have pictures but I got the Doctor's knife today. It might not be a popular sentiment, but in this one and my last (Coffin Jack) I see many traits common in modern Queen knives. Side play, off centering, twisted and bent blades; I wonder if the machining tools are just loose for all these years.

The Doc's back springs aren't flushed when opened, and the liners have uneven thickness where they meet the bolsters creating quite a few gaps. Reminds me of S&M knives of later make.

The patterns and materials are great. The Coffin Jack is great aside from side play but this Doc knife is rather disenfranchising.
 
I don't have pictures but I got the Doctor's knife today. It might not be a popular sentiment, but in this one and my last (Coffin Jack) I see many traits common in modern Queen knives. Side play, off centering, twisted and bent blades; I wonder if the machining tools are just loose for all these years.

The Doc's back springs aren't flushed when opened, and the liners have uneven thickness where they meet the bolsters creating quite a few gaps. Reminds me of S&M knives of later make.

The patterns and materials are great. The Coffin Jack is great aside from side play but this Doc knife is rather disenfranchising.

Sounds like you got a couple bad ones. Maybe that's why the knives were being sold. ;) :p :D

ALL of the problems that you mentioned are problems that I've also experienced with EVERY manufacturer (even companies that have been around for less than 10 years) though by far the most problems have been from knives by Queen. It's old news. The complaint threads used to be a common occurrence. I've heard the old tooling excuse used a lot. I'm not sure if I buy it. Maybe.

I'm not always sure if I'm on the same page with other collectors these days. A lot of folks seem to care about completely different aspects of knives. And some things are a matter of degree. A few pinholes of light through the springs will have no real significance. But a larger gap and poorly fitted knife with wobbly blades and liners that buckle obviously isn't good craftsmanship. ...Yes, I've gotten ones that bad!! :( They weren't the black box knives though.

The "black box" knives were a mini renaissance in their time. Some are 25+ years old now. I've owned at least a couple dozen of them and in general, they've been very good. They're generally the best knives that I have ever gotten from Queen. And the quality can be comparable to knives that cost much more. The patterns were terrific. The grinds were good (MUCH better than the grinds on many of the Schatt and Morgan knives). And the jigged bone on Queen's knives made most of the stuff from other companies look amateur... but lately their jigged bone has been much less impressive and other companies have stepped up their games. GEC went from store bought jigged bone to amateur to best around.

At the prices the "black box" knives go for now (hidden among tons of foreign made Winchester branded knives on the big auction site), they are sometimes extremely undervalued. I still carry a couple and have some in storage for a rainy day.

Anywho.... I'm sorry that the knives weren't better examples. You might contact Queen and see if they'll fix them up for you. Or maybe just return them to the seller.
 
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