Blade Steel.

richstag said:
I don't agree with a lot of this but I am not disagreeing in a nasty or combative way. The cpm-m4 will cut cardboard all day long and stay sharp. I have had to with it. It will also cut carpet, vinyl and all other types of commercial flooring, whittle hard woods, cut daily office light duty jobs with razor sharp grace. The thing is, I have used Sebenzas and I don't need to have 90 of them to tell you how they can perform. Admirable is my opinion of them. If I had not tried the CPM-M4 I would not have known any difference. CPM-M4 is NOT impossible to sharpen. Far from. Maybe SLOWER but actually EASIER. That harder tool steel is "crisp" to hone. Thats the best way I can describe it. S30v can remind me of stropping plado (severe exaggerated visualization). When I can use my knife for a month with only stropping and have it POP hairs, clean cut architectural floor plans and other office duty AND go out to work sites and hold up to SERIOUS beatings (MUCH more abrasive than cardboard), well, THAT is a steel that really gains my interest.

I am not trying to sound harsh, but I feel it needs to be said. What I am bringing to this discussion is respect, inquisition and real life feedback. Not to mention I know a thing or two about sharpening so I can judge steels very well for myself. Furthermore, I am NOT bashing CRK's current and past steels, I was HOPING they would option CPM-M4 because I KNOW it outperforms S30v in a big way. Also, I get my S30v razor razor sharp. :)

I hope you understand I mean this as a friendly disagreement.

Kevin
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No Harm, No Foul.....Like I said, everyone has a different opinion. For me, What CRK produces will last me a lifetime and do so quite happily. Its all good...!
 
nyefmaker said:
I am sure it will, its just not something I would do ( thats what a razor is for ) , and if it did not as good as a razor, immediately dis CRK's HT.......just an example of what happens when HT is discussed....LOL.
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I guess that's how I tell if I am done sharpening. If it will effortlessly clean the hair off of my arm, then it's good. Nothing to it. If it won't. I guess it needs a few more passes.
 
richstag said:
The man himself mentioned that they could use high speed tool steels and have crazy edge retention. Guys, there is really no need to be defensive about the current choices. I wasn't criticizing that. I was just HOPEFUL.
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I would definitely try a CRK in a "better" steel, and would love to have options available. I do not have a problem with the current offerings, however.

As far as M4 goes, though...I have a Manix 2 in M4. It stains and rusts really, really easy. I just have a hard time picturing a rusty Sebenza. :D
 
Tripton said:
I guess that's how I tell if I am done sharpening. If it will effortlessly clean the hair off of my arm, then it's good. Nothing to it. If it won't. I guess it needs a few more passes.
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I ALWAYS shave my forearm when testing for sharpness. I meant shaving your face.....!!! I should have been more specific..........I do not put my sharpmaker away until all parts of the blade easily shave arm hair.....!!!
 
I just want to say that CRK makes products that they help develop...from the frame lock to the blade steel, Chris has helped develop each and implement them into his product. What makes a sebenza a sebenza is the fact it uses a frame lock that Chris helped engineer as well as a blade steel he helped developed. That is more than you can say about most other knives.

Anyhow, in regards to the steel issue, at the end of the day, the sebenza is MEANT for the average person, who really only does enough cutting to maybe tell the difference between 154cm and s30v. Probably the best example here is nyefmaker. He uses the knife, and then sharpens it when he has to. Not to point fingers, but Kevin on the other hand, is NOT the average user, many people do not sharpen knives daily...and cutting through abrasive material is much more than your average pocket knife should do (not saying CRK is average, but at the end of the day it is a high end tool for the average man doing average tasks). CRK focuses on a knife with a balanced steel for the everyday user with higher than normal tolerances. Thats it. If you are looking for the latest and greatest, the sebenza is not it, it is just the classic modern knife that has stood the testament of time.

Perhaps the reason they don't use more than one steel at a time is because they have size limitations. CRK is still a small company and does have its limits, even esav says they needed to expand to keep up with regular production. Sure they can do small runs of damascus, but thats for the fancier knives, its not the same as being able to sprint runs of harder steels to deal with, such as CPM m4. I'm sure its much harder to process than the current steels they use...but I'm not a metal expert.

I have the same m4 blade and yes, it is a super steel, and yes it outperforms any s30v knife I have, and I have a dozen CRK...but I am a light to average user and the sebenza works just fine for me. I'd love to have an m4 blade on my sebenza..but at the end of the day I don't think it lines with CRK's product mission nor do they have the energy to produce such blades...
 
nyefmaker said:
I ALWAYS shave my forearm when testing for sharpness. I meant shaving your face.....!!! I should have been more specific..........I do not put my sharpmaker away until all parts of the blade easily shave arm hair.....!!!
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I was kind of wondering what your sharpness metric was. Spreading peanut butter? Push cutting celery?


:D
 
That could be a huge part of it. My benchmade is coated and like I said the edge and cam tang never rusted but the logo did. I believe you and when you think about it I doubt the company wants that image out there ever. Maybe a clear coated blade from CRK? Didn't they do that on some damascus or am I thinking of something else?



Tripton said:
I would definitely try a CRK in a "better" steel, and would love to have options available. I do not have a problem with the current offerings, however.

As far as M4 goes, though...I have a Manix 2 in M4. It stains and rusts really, really easy. I just have a hard time picturing a rusty Sebenza. :D
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kidcongo said:
I think one of the reasons that S35VN was developed is being forgotten (read wiki article etc). It makes the manufacturing process easier and less expensive as it is easier to machine and grind (consumes less belts, dies, etc at the factory and less time) and is easier to polish (nicer finished product to fondle). After all of the reading I have done on the difference between S30V and S35VN, I have come to the (personal) conclusion that Chris Reeve likely tweeked the S30V formula to make production of his knives more efficient, at a lower cost to CRK, and end up with a more beautiful looking blade. I don't think S35VN was meant to be a superior cutting steel to say S30V, just one that was easier to machine. I respect CRK for this as their knives are fantastic, and I think he is a wise business man. The blade steel is the same for all knives, so the grind method, the type of stone in the stone wash, the set-up for the CNC can all be the same, making it easier to switch between making mnandis and sikayos etc. CRK has never made a big deal about their blade steels, which is why its not even stamped on the knives. I feel S35VN is fine for everything I do, and if it helps CRK run a successful shop, I'm all for it.
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I was going to point out the same thing. It looks to me like their equipment is very much dialed in for their steel.

Kevin, I am a huge fan of m4. It's probably my favorite steel, although it is closely followed by carbon.

I carry and use my Contego every single day. My experiences match yours in pretty much every way. I would be shocked if CRK ever considered a run in the stuff, but if they did I'd be saving my pennies to buy one. ;)

For the sake of the discussion, I believe we are seeing two types of knife lover in this thread. One uses their knives as they are meant to be used. The other does that but also finds enjoyment in sharpening (as a sub-hobby, this includes me) and puts effort into researching, modifying and/or testing their knives. It can be hard to wrap your mind around why it is that a maker as good as Chris doesn't embrace what we see as better materials.

Neither perspective is wrong, just different.
 
richstag said:
I don't agree with a lot of this but I am not disagreeing in a nasty or combative way.

SNIP

I am not trying to sound harsh, but I feel it needs to be said. What I am bringing to this discussion is respect, inquisition and real life feedback. Not to mention I know a thing or two about sharpening so I can judge steels very well for myself. Furthermore, I am NOT bashing CRK's current and past steels, I was HOPING they would option CPM-M4 because I KNOW it outperforms S30v in a big way. Also, I get my S30v razor razor sharp. :)

I hope you understand I mean this as a friendly disagreement.

Kevin
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richstag said:
The man himself mentioned that they could use high speed tool steels and have crazy edge retention. Guys, there is really no need to be defensive about the current choices. I wasn't criticizing that. I was just HOPEFUL.
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These threads usually spiral out of control almost instantly. The fact that this one hasn't reflects a lot of credit, and credibility, for you. :thumbup:
 
Kevin is one of the good guys so it's all good. :p:thumbup:

I carry and use my CRKs every day and have never found them lacking and have no grumbles. That said, I am a materials junkie too and have knives made in all sorts of crazy stuff like REX-121, YXR7, S90V, SM-100* and other less exotic alloys. It would be good fun to have a CRK in one of those "exotics" but I fully accept and understand CRKs take on it. As we all do it seems. :)
 
Fanglekai said:
So people should spend $400+ on a knife, then spend more to have the heat treatment fixed and void the warranty in the process.
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No need for the douchy tone, I was just offering a solution that has worked for me.

If people are willing to spend 400 on a knife surely 15 dollars to get the blade hardened isn't going to ruin them. But it's probably easier to just complain.

CRK isn't going to change.
 
TTTis said:
No need for the douchy tone, I was just offering a solution that has worked for me.

If people are willing to spend 400 on a knife surely 15 dollars to get the blade hardened isn't going to ruin them. But it's probably easier to just complain.

CRK isn't going to change.
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Your "solution" voids the warranty on a $400 knife.
 
Fanglekai said:
Your "solution" voids the warranty on a $400 knife.
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We can read, no need to repeat yourself.

If you want a sebenza that performs, sack up and get it hardened. Those that choose this
path already know the risks.

CRK isn't going to change. If you don't like the steel and don't want to void your warranty,
why even buy one in the first place?
 
Interesting discussion. In my mind, it's kind of like how Victorinox uses the same stainless steel they have for years and years (what is it... 420 series?) In spite of fans dreaming of a custom shop that might also offer premium steel choices, they are quite content to stick with a proven formula that just works. But look at Leatherman... they bumped up their offerings to include 154CM, which I think added a certain attraction for knife-nuts and steel junkies. Maybe there's hope for a CRK custom shop with a boutique steel menu some day in the future...

But I'm with ya, OP! I'd rather spend more on a different blade-steel than pay for a fancy inlay or graphic... :)

-Brett
 
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Just for the record, I like CRK's S35VN just fine. Definitely not a steel junkie; never met a steel I didn't like (except for 420J2.) :D

-Brett
 
MostMenAreRuthless said:
Just curious--what were you cutting to cause the edge to easily roll?
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I too would like to know. I have used my CRK on everything, including hard things chopping through knots in hardwood, cutting shingles, cutting hard rawhide dog bones in half, etc. I have yet to roll an edge on ANY CRK with the factory 20 degree bevel. I mention the factory bevel as that's what I keep All my CRK at and have had NO ISSUES of Amy kind. If you change the bevel to a thinner, then your asking for issues to arise.
 
Haven't steepened the angle at all, in fact through touchups it's likely more obtuse that original. I have yet to do any "tough" cutting with it. Packaging tape, envelope opening, occasionally through the light plastic strapping that paper cartons are held shut with (I own a printing company). Really haven't even subjected it to cardboard much at all. I have seen guys that had theirs re-hardened claim they were tested beforehand and came in under 58, and I suspect that's my problem as well. I have put my S35V PM2 through much tougher cutting and yet to damage its edge. I want to point out here that I am really in love with both my Zaan and my Starbenza - I just wish the steel were a little harder (and that the option existed to get it done by CRK at my cost without voiding my warranty).
 
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