Blade Steel.

[BBQ BOY]

I will repeat, this is a myth being perpetuated by people with no actual experience. Yeah, yeah, you claim to own all these CRK knives. Right. The truth is, 20 years ago all knives were at around 58 hardness and nobody had an issue with. Now, they have to be sharpened every day. Yeah, right.

There are too many of these threads being started in the last couple weeks by non paying BF members, all with relatively few post numbers. Makes you wonder what the agenda is. Get a freaked life. Nobody forces you to buy CRK.

20 years ago i had a bag phone and no one complained about how large and inconvenient it was but todays smart phones shows how incompetent and dated they were. Times change when other companies advance and the industry becomes competitive. Come on, you know this. Again, CRK is my favorite brand, even though the steel isn't up to par, for my use. I will continue to support CRK and appreciate Mr. Reeve, but the simple matter of the fact is most steels don't rust any more and they hold an edge for a stupid long time. Hell, My Spyderco Domino has only been sharpened ONCE since August and it has cut A LOT. The overall quality and service of CRK is unmatched, imho.

 

[Tripton]

I'm not sure what the second question is - if it is how the ceramic ball would interact with harder steel, the ceramic is much harder than any steel we'll see in a knife blade. If the question is how a titanium lockface would interact with harder steel, we know the answer to that, too - the BG-42 blades were a good bit harder (62ish RC, IIRC).

Of course the ceramic is harder, that is why I put it aside. Obvious. As for the harder steel question, I wasn't talking about the magic 1hrc unit increase that everybody whines about. I was hinting more towards a high hrc m4 or perhaps something as hard as zdp189.


As for bg42, I've had 2. Still have 1. Never noticed a real difference in use.

 

[Officer's Match]

Well, I do think the OP has tried to stay respectful in this thread, as have I. I don't think the effort has been reciprocated, which is a shame. CRK's deserve better representation from their supporters.

 

[MostMenAreRuthless]

While I admit that this thread is slowly beating itself to death, I am still enjoying reading and contributing.

I have follow-up question to those who are having issues with hardness of the CRK blade steels: will you please outline a DETAILED and EXPLICIT overview of how/what/when/where/why you have used your CRK's for at the time they have failed you with dents, rolls, chips, dulling etc?

The reason I ask is that I carry and use a Sebenza every day--my rotation varies, but I have ATS-34. S30V, and S35VN Sebs and I have yet to have a roll or flattened edge. Admittedly, I am not what I would consider a "hard user" in that I don't pry, chop hardwoods, dig, etc, but I certainly don't baby them (well, maybe I baby the P Seb in ATS-34!).

Your input would help further the purpose of this thread and would possibly enlighten others. So far, the only usage anecdotes I have read have been about opening envelopes!

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Below are some photos of my first "premium knife" - a Benchmade 970S CQC7 purchased in 1995 for the astronomical price of $105!!! (The one on the top in the first two photos and bottom in last photo) I still own it and back in the day either it or the AFCK were about as good as you could get according to all the knife and gun rags. It replaced my Spyderco Endura after I broke it.

It's a relative POS by todays standards - plastic backspacer, tiny little screws with tiny little thread pitch fastening puny little 1/16th" Ti liners together, sandwiched between old tech 1/16th" G10 slabs, and no perforated phosphate bronze washers to make it tolerable to open. Benchmade geeks will notice the "loose" weave G10 scale texture compared to the bottom later production version. Worst of all, it has that "terrible" ATS-34 steel everyone bitches about now. Mine had the added bonus of being cast with voids in the blade steel from the factory (photo #2). I'm surprised it didn't spontaneously combust, or shatter the first time it was dropped on the floor, or turn to rusty dust long ago!

Nearly 2 decades of use and sharpening have reduced its blade length by almost 3/16th" and its width by 1/16". I've abused it in every way possible, disassembled game, used it as a pry bar, a hammer, cut wire, struck flint, let rust get in to it, etc... Still, if my Sebbies' blades hold up as well after 2 decades with the crappy S30V steel, I'll be happy. I wouldn't pay a dime more for a version with the new super steal of the month (pun intended). OK, I'd pay for some nice carbon steel damascus in a pattern other than ladder/raindrop/basketweave.

I've got a similar knife. Mine designed by Allen.

I anodized the liners blue. Who complains about ats-34? A super clean version of 154cm, it's a brilliant steel! Mine has the nylon washers too and is incredibly smooth. Blade swings freely, no play, all that.

Someone mentioned that a change might require Chris and Crucible making a new, superior steel. What might that mean? It took the PM technology to move into the new steels. I guess that's the same as asking what the next big step forward is in cutlery steel manufacture.

I'm great with the steel used now. Just wondering out loud about how long they'll use s35vn before the next big thing hits.

 

[Karda]

This is the only forum I've ever seen where people are expected to pay server costs, which every major forum on the internet handles with accepting advertising for revenue. Whether or not people donate to this site has nothing to do with their knowledge or "agenda". Many scammers had a paid subscription. Does that mean everyone with a paid subscription is a scammer?

What does any of this have to do with the topic?

Spark could easily load this forum with advertising on every page upside down and sideways and keep the membership fees as profit.
He chooses not to because he dislikes intrusive advertising as much as most of the paid membership does. He not only pays the server costs, but also the costs for hardware and infrastructure as well as the software out of his own pocket. FREE for registered users, such as yourself, whom do a lot of complaining without a cent invested in the site. It seems some should be a little more appreciative.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. Please stay on topic and play nice.

 

[Officer's Match]

While I admit that this thread is slowly beating itself to death, I am still enjoying reading and contributing.

I have follow-up question to those who are having issues with hardness of the CRK blade steels: will you please outline a DETAILED and EXPLICIT overview of how/what/when/where/why you have used your CRK's for at the time they have failed you with dents, rolls, chips, dulling etc?

The reason I ask is that I carry and use a Sebenza every day--my rotation varies, but I have ATS-34. S30V, and S35VN Sebs and I have yet to have a roll or flattened edge. Admittedly, I am not what I would consider a "hard user" in that I don't pry, chop hardwoods, dig, etc, but I certainly don't baby them (well, maybe I baby the P Seb in ATS-34!).

Your input would help further the purpose of this thread and would possibly enlighten others. So far, the only usage anecdotes I have read have been about opening envelopes!

Well, I use knives - never test them, so a detailed and explicit overview isn't readily available, but I've been paying attention since this whole matter became a concern to me. I believe you may be referring to my answer as to what cutting I was doing when I experienced the edge roll on my Umnumzaan. I stated that I had cut plastic strapping in addition to opening envelopes and various other general duties, none of which I gave any thought to being challenging to a blade's edge.

As I further added, I'll be glad to offer updated information as it becomes available. My Zaan has taken up unusually permanent residence in my RFP (I have a number of other's I enjoy owning, carrying & using) and so we'll all know soon if what happened was an anomaly or if the steel in my particular specimen is soft. I am truly hopeful that it holds it's edge better after fixing the roll and being extremely careful to ensure no wire edge was left. Not much action so far, but the edge is doing well on last week's envelopes.

Folks, I don't want to come off as either defensive or snippy about this topic, and I certainly don't have an ulterior motive or desire to bash CRK, so comments about low-post-count newbie's or You-Tube videos really don't apply to me or help the thread IMHO. If this topic truly has been beaten to death prior to my ever knowing about BladeForum, how does that serve to help me or any other member that's since joined? Sure, I know all about the search function, but by the same logic those who don't wish to experience dialog about this topic could even easier avoid the thread all together. We all know and appreciate CRK's and most have a deep appreciation for Mr. Reeve's contribution the the knife world, but that does not make the direct observations, experiences and yes even opinions of others irrelevant or unworthy of consideration. I hope you all can respect where I'm coming from, which is that the only certainty I know is that which I've personally validated - after that, it's all degree's of credibility.

 

[TTTis]

I will repeat, this is a myth being perpetuated by people with no actual experience.

You have NO idea what you are talking about.

A lot more people than you think believe CRK's HT is low. But thanks to people like you, they are immediately called a
shill or something worse for even mentioning anything it's unreal.

Most people with CRK's DON'T use them and most saying the HT is great have NEVER used them for anything more than opening mail.

See what I did there? I did the same thing as you, just discredit those who have a different opinion and EXPERIENCE.

 

[Tripton]

You have NO idea what you are talking about.

A lot more people than you think believe CRK's HT is low. But thanks to people like you, they are immediately called a
shill or something worse for even mentioning anything it's unreal.

Most people with CRK's DON'T use them and most saying the HT is great have NEVER used them for anything more than opening mail.

See what I did there? I did the same thing as you, just discredit those who have a different opinion and EXPERIENCE.

But how many of these bitching and complaining and "if only" threads does there really need to be? How hard is it for people to accept that they are what they are, they are NOT changing, and if a person doesn't like it, go find something else?


Personally, I think a LOT of the disappointed CRK users come from doing hours and hours of research, elevating the knife on a higher plane of existence (in their minds) than what it could possibly be, and setting themselves up for the disappointment. Thinking that just because it costs a lot more, it will be the be-all end-all of pocketknives. It isn't. Is is an exceptionally made example, and a fantastic piece of machining. You do NOT buy a CRK for the highest possible level of edge retention. You buy it for the highest possible level of fit and finish.

Changes will come as CRK sees fit. Sometimes they are for production reasons, sometimes (most of the time) they are mechanical improvements, and once in a while they are because of customer feedback (or stupidity). Remember the original Umnumzaan? The perfectly great, well designed knife that people were too dumb to deploy, too stupid to unlock, and too foolish to resist the urge to "fix" themselves by bending the lockbar? All of that is "fixed" now, all due to customer reaction. Still, I'd put my bets on NOT getting a new blade steel due to a minority of people complaining. A harder steel is harder to work with, harder to grind, harder to finish, harder to polish, etc. How much more would people pay for a new Sebenza? All of those increased costs are going to be inevitably passed to the end user.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I carry an Insingo every day and while I'm not cutting flooring with it it does see use. I personally would use a utility knife for that but for everything else I would expect S30V to hold up well. I haven't tested any of my S35vn knives, but I carried a Native 5 last year for a good while. I had no problems.

CRK has used ats34, a2, bg42, s30v and now s35vn on their folders. Maybe others I'm not familiar with. I don't think they are set up to utilize other steels. Chris helped design s30v and s35vn so I don't think he would stray from those.

 

[Officer's Match]

I have yet to see one post address my suggestion/wish that CRK would allow an owner to have his blade re-hardened at the owner's expense to a factory-approved level that would be more to the actual owner's need/usage/preference. Instead I get speculation as to something amiss with me and/or my expectations. Fella's, that's not how CRK fans should be perceived (remember, I'm one).

 

[Ken44]

I have yet to see one post address my suggestion/wish that CRK would allow an owner to have his blade re-hardened at the owner's expense to a factory-approved level that would be more to the actual owner's need/usage/preference. Instead I get speculation as to something amiss with me and/or my expectations. Fella's, that's not how CRK fans should be perceived (remember, I'm one).

What are we supposed to address???

I'll try.
No way CRK is going to do that.
We can't change that here.

You may want to call CRK and talk to them about it. They're not going to let people send in blades to be re-hardened at a higher RC. But if you hear it from them you may believe it.
Good luck.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

Have you talked with CRK about your concerns? I don't think they want to but more importantly they probably can't do any changes to their knives as you're suggesting.

 

[Tripton]

I have yet to see one post address my suggestion/wish that CRK would allow an owner to have his blade re-hardened at the owner's expense to a factory-approved level that would be more to the actual owner's need/usage/preference. Instead I get speculation as to something amiss with me and/or my expectations. Fella's, that's not how CRK fans should be perceived (remember, I'm one).

So, you think that it should be an option to send your single knife, at your cost, back to the facility where CRK heat treats their knives, for a 1 unit increase in Rockwell hardness, and retain factory warranty?

Well, let's think about that. The knives are already hardened to the factory approved level. They are a production knife, so outside of a few custom graphics, they don't do custom work. The rehardened blades would need to be refinished, or they would have some post-heat treating scale and what not on them. Rehardening would also bring the possibility of warped blades. People sell their CRKs all the time, and let's assume they would sell the custom heat treated ones too, that were hardened for one certain individual. Lets say the blade chips because the steel is harder, and the new owner feels as if it should be warranted....even though it is heat treated HARDER than what CRK treats it from the factory.


The steel is as hard as CRK is going to make it. Your options are custom knives, and custom hardening. Since I cannot possibly imagine CRK wanting to put up with any more headaches, why not just bite the bullet, take the chance, throw the warranty in the garbage and heat treat the damn thing up to 60-61?




ETA: If you are lucky, and they are nice, and you will have to talk to them to confirm it...but maybe CRK would be willing to drop a new blade in the rehardened Umnumzaan if it doesnt turn out or you don't like it. (For the cost of a new blade, of course.)

 

[Officer's Match]

OK, there we go. Actual, on topic responses, which is all I was requesting. I consider that a change in the right direction in the trajectory of the thread.

 

[Don M]

Chris himself said that S35VN is not the ultimate in edge holding (and it is not), but it fills his intended design goal by having a balance of corrosion resistance, ease of sharpening for the *average* (not afi) user, toughness, and edge holding. I agree with him that it meets the balance he intended the steel to have for his design.

I buy the CRK for the whole package, and it is an extremely well executed package. It will reliably last my lifetime and beyond, which, ironically, may not be true of the OP's knife that started this thread, as he is apparently finding with a broken omega spring after 3 months use. Not to denigrate BM (I have several mini grips and I like them) but you do buy a whole package when you buy a knife, not just the steel. I have PM2s in 20CP and 204P (better edge holding than S35VN), and they are nice packages but quite different from a Sebenza. All good, just different balances of properties of both the steel and the knife.

 

[richstag]

Woke up to open and use my knife this morning to a broken spring. Im back to the sebenza for a while but now I want it with CPM-M4 even worse. Put a nice edge on one of my lightly used old regulars. Going to have it in my pocket for a while. I will just use a flooring knife in its place for the work stuff.

Kevin

 

[Fanglekai]

What does any of this have to do with the topic?

Spark could easily load this forum with advertising on every page upside down and sideways and keep the membership fees as profit.
He chooses not to because he dislikes intrusive advertising as much as most of the paid membership does. He not only pays the server costs, but also the costs for hardware and infrastructure as well as the software out of his own pocket. FREE for registered users, such as yourself, who do a lot of complaining without a cent invested in the site. It seems some should be a little more appreciative.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. Please stay on topic and play nice.

What did his post insulting non-paying members have to do with the topic? I wrote a response to his insulting post. Many registered users such as myself contribute through posting on this website, which keeps it active and populated. Apparently we all need to pay to post here or our opinions and experiences count for nothing. Oh, but I used to have a Gold membership to this site, which more than covered my bandwidth usage for all the time I've been on here, so now you've insulted me again. I'm asking for civil discourse where people will stop insulting others with whom they disagree.

CRK runs his S35VN softer than other companies. Some people don't like it. Some people do. CRK does what they want. People who don't like the steel should buy other knives, which is why there are so many choices out there for everyone to pick from. There's no need to be insulting.

 

[pvicenzi]

Many people like the knives just as they are. Think of it from a business standpoint. If you already can sell the product faster than you can produce it, why change anything? Don't mess with success.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

Sounds like the perfect excuse to learn knife making officers match.